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I´m not happy with Frost tanking being left out
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Post by
228908
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470168
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Post by
apocalypsa
You didnt offend ppl by being uninterested in Blood. You offended ppl by saying blood should be dw dps because of its COLOUR!
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470168
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228908
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470168
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Post by
sushigaski
I hope blood will be a dual wielding DPS Spec. Unholy should be the pet and disease AoE-oriented spec. Frost should be the tanking spec. That is the direction WoW history indicates.
Blood has never, EVER, been a DW spec. EVER. Frost started out with the only DW talents, and since the devs have added more DW talents to Frost (effectively killing 2h Frost DPS), it seems clear that Frost is and always has been intended to be the "DW" tree. I cannot think of a single point in the history of DKs that a DW Blood DPS spec was actually a viable option.
Blood has been the preferred raid-tanking spec since early on in the expansion. I personally feel that the self-healing, survivability spec with the best tanking cooldowns makes a perfectly reasonable choice for the dedicated tank-spec. I will be sad to see Blood DPS go out the window, but in all honesty it plays almost identically to Unholy, and Blizz has stated their intention to bring back Frost 2h as an alternative to Unholy for people who hate pets (which makes me really really happy, btw, since 2h Frost DPS was my favorite spec by far).
Really, I believe Blizzard made the best choice possible. The redesign of DKs to have a single dedicated tanking tree will work wonders for game balance. The fact that they had already began gearing Frost up to be the DW tree made it impossible for them to make it the tank tree, so they were left to chose between Unholy (the pet and aoe tree) and Blood. Because Blood is already the raid tanking tree of preference, and because thematically self healing screams "tank" much louder than "dps," the choice of Blood for their tanking tree just makes sense.
Beyond that, I don't think there is much point in discussing the pros / cons of Blood being the tank tree until we see how the talents will end up. I highly doubt that Blood will look even remotely like it does now. If it looks more like the Prot trees that Warriors / Paladins have, then I'll be quite pleased.
As an aside, I think it will also be nice to have the community opinion of "which tree is the proper tanking tree" decided by the devs instead of the players. I got very sick of having to defend my choice of tanking tree every time I ran anything, no matter what tree I was using (Blood, Frost, OR Unholy).
Post by
470168
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Post by
apocalypsa
You got a point in that, however, if we assume Frost would be tanking and blizz wouldnt ditch dw dk's, unholy is more likely. Why: unholy is more spell and diseases based, and more about quick light attacks(unholy presence for example, gives haste which benefits dw more, you used this argument for frost too ;)), and blood is about heavy, slow attacks, if you for example look at most known blood dk mobs, they all use 2h's. And none of them is one of the more subtle races. But imo, blizz should ditch the dk dw idea. Frost dks are almos the same as shamans now: priority rotation, watch for procs, provide a raid-wide haste buff, half caster half melee, dw...
Post by
sushigaski
You got a point in that, however, if we assume Frost would be tanking and blizz wouldnt ditch dw dk's, unholy is more likely. Why: unholy is more spell and diseases based, and more about quick light attacks(unholy presence for example, gives haste which benefits dw more, you used this argument for frost too ;)), and blood is about heavy, slow attacks, if you for example look at most known blood dk mobs, they all use 2h's. And none of them is one of the more subtle races. But imo, blizz should ditch the dk dw idea. Frost dks are almos the same as shamans now: priority rotation, watch for procs, provide a raid-wide haste buff, half caster half melee, dw...
I can see where you're coming from there, but in such a scenario that would be loading a lot of the niches into Unholy to the point that Blood would be left behind. With Frost as a Tank tree, Unholy as a DW / Disease / Pet tree, all that Blood would be is the self-healing 2h DPS tree, which doesn't fit quite as well thematically. You'd probably have to move diseases to Blood, at the very least, to try and get it to work out.
I honestly think that a lot of the people who are screaming "amgz, Blood as Tank? Screw you blizzard I hate DKs nao" will change their tune when a full talent-tree of tank oriented talents appears. Imagine tanking as a DK where instead of having one panic button, you have 3-4 unique tanking cool-downs / abilities spread throughout the tree. Instead of just "DPSing in frost presence," you'll actually have tank skills that you use actively throughout the encounter.
I also think that Frost DPSers and Unholy DPSers will be happy when they see their talent trees gain a stronger DPS focus, without having any filler tank talents and with more useful choices throughout.
But, back to the original topic of what I'm replying to, I agree that, if given the choice between Blood being a DW tree and having DW ditched entirely, I'd opt for DW being ditched entirely.
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580181
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470168
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Post by
zearamoth
To be honest, I don't like blood being tank either. I would miss Howling Blast!
Anyways, a logic way why I think frost is a more-tank spec lies within your CD's
For example:
-
Unbreakable Armor
: It says: Reinforces your armor with a
thick coat of ice
.
-
Icebound Fortitude
: The name allready says it,
Icebound
. Plus it says
Freezes your blood
.
The way I saw the dk specs was:
Blood
: Heavy physical DPS
Frost
: Tank (dw DPS)
Unholy
: Pyhisical / Magical DPS
While the above changed for me after a while, I liked the fact that Dk's were a very open class, were the wasn't realy THE tank spec, each spec had it's own things.
Post by
sushigaski
I must admit, when I saw wow.com initially theorize that Blizzard might put all of the tank talents into a single tree, and that the tree might be Blood, I was a bit skeptical.
But around the same time I started leveling a paladin tank, and after that hit 80 I started on a warrior tank (my wife is an altoholic, and she always wants a tank leveling buddy). During the process, I found that I really really liked the Prot trees, and would often find myself looking at talents that I wished I could have on my DK. I also liked that the protadin / prot warrior have a distinct playstyle that is different than their DPS tree counterparts, rather than just continuing to use DPS rotations in Frost Presence like DKs currently do.
So when the announcement came, I wasn't particularly surprised, and I found myself looking forward to the changes.
I was also quite impressed with the whole Healing Absorption idea. One of the most difficult issues of current game balance, as far as tanks go, is balancing the blocking vs. non-blocking classes. I didn't really think they could ever pull the balance off, and then they came up with a mechanic that might, believably, simulate block for DK tanks.
Now if we could only get a more detailed explanation of that new rune system... I think I get how the runes will regenerate, but at the moment it looks like any FU / BFU abilities will be impossible to work into a rotation. I'm guessing that they'll have to lower costs of abilities like Obliterate to just one rune, or something, and I'm really looking forward to the details of that.
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495174
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396474
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Post by
Paolo
The reason I want frost to be the tanking tree derives from the fantasy world Blizzard has created. I wish it would stay logical and coherent. Gnome priests. Undead hunters. Troll druids.
The internal consistency of the WoW-verse has softened. That doesn't make it less enjoyable.
Not trying to derail your thread btw. Just challenging the premise that internal logic is primary. It's not. It's only part of the game, and one that is subject to continual reinterpretation and adjustment. Your views on what "should" be true are largely personal preference.
Post by
181961
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Post by
Atik
I've seen Fury Warriors Tanking.
I've seen Holy Paladins Tanking.
Hell, I saw a Druid try to tank in tree-form!
And, my Shaman tanks!
Just grab some threat and tank crap from blood and pump frost the rest of the way.
You won't be great, but it is possible.
Post by
301506
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