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Protection Dungeon Leveling Guide
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Post by
229626
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
338789
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
pezz
I played Prot in instances from 20+. There were a few pre-BC instances where an AoEer did a little more damage than me, but these occurences were few and far between. Obviously Ret does more damage than Prot, but in either build, you will most likely not have a threat issue
1) It is the fault of those dps who are not AOE-ing that their dps is so low. This may be because they are new to the game, it may be because they're retards. doesn't matter. The point is, they suck. However, every class has a move by level 20 that will allow them to AOE, except I think Rogues, and Druids (since if they're not tanking, they don't wanna be bear-swiping.) Feel free to correct me on whether a class lacks one, but the point being that it's the player at fault.
My priest is level 58 and even as shadow my best option is Holy Nova.
Some classes also have inferior AoEs, such as warlocks with Rain of Fire but no SoC.
Post by
Squishalot
Holy Nova doesn't cause threat. Just putting it out there.
Warriors don't have a real AoE except for Thunder Clap (since Cleave isn't a true AoE), and like Druids, you don't want them spamming it.
Post by
svirve
Ew, you have Glyph of Exorcism?
You've got 3 points in Crusade instead of in Touched by the Light?
You've got points in Reckoning?
Eww indeed.
I checked every spec posted in this thread, who has what now?
Yea cause reckoning is bad, amidoinitrite?
Post by
pezz
Holy Nova doesn't cause threat. Just putting it out there.
Sort of a superfluous mechanic considering the damage it deals anyway. Those toad critters that hit you for one health would probably out-aggro Holy Nova if it dealt damage.
Post by
Mordru
I played Prot in instances from 20+. There were a few pre-BC instances where an AoEer did a little more damage than me, but these occurences were few and far between. Obviously Ret does more damage than Prot, but in either build, you will most likely not have a threat issue
1) It is the fault of those dps who are not AOE-ing that their dps is so low. This may be because they are new to the game, it may be because they're retards. doesn't matter. The point is, they suck. However, every class has a move by level 20 that will allow them to AOE, except I think Rogues, and Druids (since if they're not tanking, they don't wanna be bear-swiping.) Feel free to correct me on whether a class lacks one, but the point being that it's the player at fault.
2) With that in mind, do you really wanna be "settling" for just being able to overcome the morons ? Personally, that feels lazy. It feels like it's justifying you yourself being a moron. If you do settle for that, what do you do when you come across the dps who do know what they're doing ? Suddenly, you don't have the tools to cope with them without stifling the dps they could be doing. As such, you are now definitively the moron.
Not to mention you're slowing down the group regardless, which slows down your exp gain. No matter what the groups doing, if you're taking on 50 mobs in an instance, consider how much longer it'll take you to get through doing 20dps as Prot, compared to 50dps as Ret. (Numbers made up, but to emphasis the fact that Ret will kill faster.)
I get the feeling that you have read that Ret is better than Prot in tanking from 20-39 in 3.3, but have not tried it yourself. The difference in DPS at those levels are not that far removed (crit chance is still rather small, and Ret's defining abilities don't come until 50+). And if you read the other tanking class forums, the amount of DPS or damage that a tank does is inconsequental to health, mitigation, and threat. It seems that only ret pallys (some of them) think pally tanks need to out damage the party's DPSers to stay ahead of the threat or to be useful for the group.
All classes in these early levels do not have their defining talents and spells, just a sprinkling. Only mages and warlocks were able to do AoE of any significance and their AoE was about on par with consecrate. Granted, in pugs there are bozos, but even the good players are handcuffed by their limited arsenal.
From my own experience, where I leveled as prot and ran instances in 3.3, threat was never an issue and I was able to put out quite a bit of damage myself with sword and board. No DPSer was slowing down because of low tps. Threat was never an issue. And the instances went a lot faster for my lowbie pally than they did for my druid and warrior. The main reason was AoE threat and low down time. If I was holding up a group, I would have respeced, but I never did.
Finally, I am not sure if you think that calling someone a 'moron' proves your point. For me as a scientist, facts holds more weight than name-calling.
Here are my talents:
http://www.wowhead.com/profile=us.thrall.belash#talents
. I just hit 64, if you are wondering about the missing talent point.
Post by
338789
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kibbles
I get the feeling that you have read that Ret is better than Prot in tanking from 20-39 in 3.3, but have not tried it yourself.Then you'd be wrong. If you look in my characters, you'll find Sarthini. She was levelled this way.
Several times I've tried going Horde, usually making a Pally cause it's the class I'm most familiar with. One time I decided to go Prot from the offset. Whether there's a debate to be made about overall skill involved with being Horde or Alliance (and please don't go there here. That belongs in Wow-General forum) but I found that people of all classes were frequently over-aggroing me, despite me doing everything "correctly" in Prot.
Turn RF on. Yes, Righteous Fury. Now press Consecrate. Now stop worrying about aggro.
Unless a DPSer starts AoE before you consecrate (which is really their poor skill) you will NOT lose aggro. Ever. Unless there is another consecrate-spamming RF pally or a DK with death grip, or basically a noob with the proper spells. Ever.
All classes in these early levels do not have their defining talents and spells, just a sprinkling.And among those hit most is the Paladin. Pretty much the only thing they have, offensively, at these levels is Judgement and Consecration, unless you talent for Seal of Cleave.
Judgement and Consecration and RF is all you need.
Here, let's have a competition. Show me a single instance where a pally with RF and a mage and a warlock with equal gear and the same level all started AoE at the same time and kept it up, and then one of the DPSers drew aggro. And no, not one of those random youtube videos, something you actually did. Youtube hosts over 1 million people, all posting a video proves is that it has over a .000001 chance that this will happen.
Finally, I am not sure if you think that calling someone a 'moron' proves your point. For me as a scientist, facts holds more weight than name-calling.The point about name-calling ? You think I was saying moron as an insult. I was using it as one might a class or title. See as things like "Elite, Politician, Criminal etc." An insulting class or title, I grant, but still not an insult on its own. And if you read the other tanking class forums, the amount of DPS or damage that a tank does is inconsequental to health, mitigation, and threat.At low level, survivability isn't really an issue, put on a shield, wear mail, and you should be good for staying alive. At these levels, unlike, say, a Warrior, all of a Paladin's threat is linked to how much damage they do.
...until they turn on RF and spam Consecrate, and actually know how to use HoR at the right time.
Edit: I think I should probably make clear: I'm "playing the devils advocate" as it were simply because this topic was presented as a guide, that told people they HAD to go Prot. They don't. Ret is equally viable as Prot in low levels. It's also frequently better, since Prot at low level all passive upgrades that really, you can make do without. I'm not saying Prot sucks, I'm saying Ret is more efficient.
Not to mention: The guide itself is hugely inaccurate. For two examples, it is stated to use Exorcism both as a puller AND inside combat. Er...casting in combat means you can't dodge, parry, or block. There's also what he says about the Seals. "Seal of Justice should be used over Seal of light". "Seal of Wisdom should only be used when you have low mana but not low health". Good luck with that advice....Thank you for saying that, but calling me a moron for only having what I actually tested and used in this guide proves nothing, except quite possibly your incredible inability to use insults properly. I know that yes, you can go ret at lower levels, but it is much easier to stay prot, rather than learn one thing earlier, then have to learn an entirely different method of threat and rotation. If you want to write a guide to ret leveling, feel free to write one, but I do not want to post something that I haven't tested and that no one else has said anything of how it works differently in this guide.
Post by
Squishalot
Here, let's have a competition. Show me a single instance where a pally with RF and a mage and a warlock with equal gear and the same level all started AoE at the same time and kept it up, and then one of the DPSers drew aggro. And no, not one of those random youtube videos, something you actually did. Youtube hosts over 1 million people, all posting a video proves is that it has over a .000001 chance that this will happen.
It may be the case at certain levels, where a mage may get a rank up on Blizzard 2 levels earlier than a Pally will (not sure if this is the case). Also consider that a mage, with today's lower-level gearing, will have more SP than in the old days, and will generally deal more damage, whereas the Pally will be gearing for more mitigation stats (Rings of Eluding at low levels are OP).
Then consider that the mage will have Frostbite, 100% crit bonus damage and Shatter. At certain points, a mage will definitely be able to steal aggro. As a Frost Mage (i.e. designed for AoE goodness), I could generally rip aggro off an equally geared / levelled Paladin tank if they weren't tab-targeting / cleaving before L60, and thereafter, I'd generally sit at about 60-70% threat on the non-main target.
Holy Nova doesn't cause threat. Just putting it out there.
Sort of a superfluous mechanic considering the damage it deals anyway. Those toad critters that hit you for one health would probably out-aggro Holy Nova if it dealt damage.
It actually does pretty reasonable damage if you're specced for it (which as a healer, you probably won't be, admittedly). I was considering multiboxing with 5 Disc Priests, with Holy Nova spam, crits proccing Divine Aegis on everybody, and essentially sitting on a 10k shield buffer, about 8k HPS + shield procs each (and to other friendly targets nearby) and 4k DPS non-stop to up to 10 targets in the hit zone. And it's uninterruptible. Something like that.
Post by
338789
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
since those guys are booooring to level.
whole-heartedly agrees.
Post by
woohaa
i have a alt mage that's sitting at about lvl 50 atm. decided to make a tank cause no one could hold agro over my mage >_> as far as heirlooms go he has the shoulders, chest, and staff from emblems. no sp trinkets. He's specced purely for aoe grinding. i went purely blizzard and where i could i got slowing talents like permafrost to help tanks retaunt a mob when i pulled agro.
Most prot palies that didn't have SoC would run in drop their Consecrate and i'd wait till the consecrate went away and they were refreshing...then i'd start my blizzard. Even if i waited that long sometimes i'd still pull a few mobs off. luckily my wife was making a priest so she'd heal me if i pulled agro. I had to start the process of waiting the full 8 sec of consecrate before blizzarding because if i waited a few sec then started up i'd pull....i'd try waiting more...i'd pull...then finally it was to the point they were refreshing consecrate and i decided that was way too long to wait. And these are palies with full heirlooms. they would get upset that i kept pulling agro and could not figure out why they couldn't keep all the mobs on them.
RF+Consecrate does not guarantee your gonna hold everything. And if you think i'm being a noob for pulling agro on my mage then explain what i should do? wait 10sec? 20sec? wait till the mobs are almost dead?
As far as tanking goes you only have 2 goals....hold agro and stay alive. you need to balance the two especially at lower lvls when your threat abilities are limited. You can only tell a dps to hold off for so long...i'd rather take alittle more dmg and hold agro and let the alts with full heirlooms go to town on every pull. then tell them to slow down so i can generate enough threat to hold everything.
oh one more thing...before you got DP/SP/BoS how often did you have to drink in a instance? with glyph of SoC i never have to drink and i never lose agro...not to mention my wife easily keeps me alive (while she's dpsing). I'm not trying to say prot is bad at lower lvls...i'm just saying ret is making it alot easier. and fyi i'm only 11pts into ret...rest is in prot for dmg mitigation.
Post by
Squishalot
3/3 Imp Blizzard + Permafrost + Frostbite = more time for tanks to react. You'll rip aggro, definitely, but the mobs should still be relatively in place for them to take back.
As for the Disc Priest idea, you can level relatively efficiently using the Energizer spec from the Priest stickies - no worse than levelling as an Arcane mage. Holy Nova isn't actually terribly efficient, and the multiboxing idea is best saved for PvP.
Post by
slasher0161
Can we get a thread lock please, this thread is slowly degenerating, the information is inaccurate at best, the OP is also making a guide assuming that every person they group with has a third chromosome 21 which is about as intelligent as writing a guide for healers saying "don't worry your tank should have 50% avoidance and just got friendly with the rng gods therefore you won't have to lift a finger".
Some gaping flaws in the OP's post are that you assume that the extra mitigation provided by prot outweigh the gains in ret. Lets assume two characters level 45 for one minute, one using a
prot build
the other a
ret build
. Below are the gains for each.
Prot:
15% str
5% dodge
10% armor value
6% damage reduction
Imp Devo
Mitigation CD
HS
6%
stam
Argent defender
SA
BoS
Ret:
5% Parry
3% crit (de)buff
Faster judging
AP reduction (huge mitigation)
Seal of pure win (now with protection against aggro @#$%^ mages)
Faster run speed
Replenishment and lolmana
CC
Up to 9% increased damage
Instant exo's for more threat/dps (you have spare GCD's at that level)
3% increased damage buff for everyone (making those meh dps 3% less meh)
More damage and threat
More crit (threat) and harder exo's
5% Crit
Hmm I wonder which way I would go...
Post by
Mordru
The reason I read this quide is because I did level as a prot pally and did my fair share of instances. It is not impossible. It is something I wanted to do and what other people browsing the forums may also want to do. If someone is browsing the forums, they will certainly know the popular opinion is to level ret at early levels and that ret is a viable tank. But, if someone is interested in leveling as a prot pally and wanted a guide, why shouldn't someone post a guide?
There are problems with the OP guide that should be corrected:
Using exorcism in your rotation is bad (as it stops auto attack, gets extended with every hit you take, etc).
Avenger Shield uses a lot of mana that is not easily replaced at early levels.
Your judgement of choice is Wisdom in almost all cases.
Ret aura is probably prefered, but should be monitored (switch to Dev if more mitigation is needed).
One thing that is important is you need to learn to tank, which isn't just spell choice. You should have a threat monitor and learn to switch targets (tab target) to focus on the MoBs with the lowest threat. You need to be watching for adds and be ready to pickup. You need to learn how to use Hand of Reckoning (easy), Hand of Protection, and Hand of Sacrifice when you lose aggro. And you need to learn how to use your Oh @$#! spells (Divine Shield) when things go west.
Finally, as many people have posted, the key to threat generation in pallys is damage. Holy damage has threat magnified by Righteous Fury. As far as damage goes, ret>prot. At some point however, damage mitigation and health outweigh output damage, thus switching to prot becomes necessary for proper tanking. This is why at 80 (except for some rare out-geared cases), the pally tanks are prot specced, not ret specced. Not because a prot pally generates more threat than a ret pally, but because a ret pally cannot survive the incoming damage. When the point comes that a pally needs to be prot speced to survive an instance depends on many things (gear, level difference of instance, healer, etc).
My experience from low levels (20-39) is that I did not have a problem maintaining aggro as a prot pally. It was a heck of a lot easier than with a druid or warrior. I preferred heavy AoE groups (mages and warlocks at these levels) as I could pull large groups and the instances were quick. I did not have to drink much and my spell rotation was rather simple: run around and aggro a group, consecrate when they were in close, judge, then tab target to spread threat. Keep judge and consecrate up.
Post by
asakawa
the OP sets out his stall right at the beginning of the thread. he states that tanking through LFD is the fastest way to level and that prot is the best way to tank.
of course a guide for those interested in prot despite its short-comings would be a fine thing but that is not what this is and that's why (one of many reasons in fact) the info is being so firmly challenged.
Post by
Kibbles
Why are you all on about threat and damage? MORE threat is not needed, ever. RF+Consecrate spam is fine. The mana problem is minimal, use BoSanc and you will never run out of mana through AS usage. I understand that killing stuff faster is better, but in the end if the result is killing something faster+one more CC that you will hardly ever need versus more migitation health and you are the tank...
Post by
pezz
Why are you on about mitigation and health? MORE mitigation and health is not needed, at lower levels. Mail/plate gear + deflection is fine. I understand that more mitigation is better, but in the end if the result is the healer casting one more heal per fight versus killing stuff twice as fast...
Post by
Squishalot
Hmm I wonder which way I would go...
You missed Prot's 10% extra damage across all abilities.
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