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What exactly are these spreadsheets, and why are they so Important?
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Post by
Justinmcg67
First off I'd like to say that yes, I did read the stickies and the "Read these before posting" thread. However, all I get are these spreadsheets. I for one do not have Microsoft Excel, nor do I want to download it or use it. I dislike the program and with that have very little knowledge of it to begin with.
Every class I have played has had a pretty simple, easy to follow rotation, based on the circumstances e.g boss fights, 5 mans, etc etc. Why do Rogues not have any set rotation; granted it will differ with spec and such? Why is it that you must resort to a spreadsheet to max your DPS and Damage Done instead of being like every other class (exception being Cat DPS) and have a pretty easy rotation? Or for that matter something as a guide to get you going to see nice numbers and such?
Is Rogue really that complicated that you have to resort to another program just to play the game and enjoy your class? And honestly that's what seems to be turning me away from Rogues altogether. Is that I HAVE to download Excel and I HAVE to download a Spreadsheet just to play the game and see good numbers. I mean honestly, I have not had any problem like this with any other class andI've played 5 classes to 80; maybe it's just me or maybe Rogues really are that complicated now. I'm not sure.
So basically, can the Community please help me on figuring out how to max your DPS on a Rogue without using a Spreadsheet. Because having to rely on Microsoft Excel just to play World of Warcraft as a Rogue just seems a bit to much; they've already got me to buy all the Expansions and pay $15 a month and now you're telling me I have to download another program just to play a class? *come on*
Post by
176977
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Justinmcg67
Oh I forgot to tell my spec and such. I use a Mutilate spec, and I only do PvE content on my Rogue; specifically Heroics. Hope this little tid bit helps as well.
Thank you for the response. =]
Post by
Liquoid
Every
single class
's DPS can be improved by either of two:
a) Simulations such as Rawr (
Mage
,
Paladin
), iDPS,
EnhSim
, SimulationCraft (
Feral Druid
,
Warlock
,
Priest
),
Kahorie's
b) Spreadsheets (
Rog
ue
,
Warrior
,
Hunter
,
Elemental Shaman
,
Balance Druid
).
These aren't vital. But you're encouraged to use them.
Post by
391919
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Justinmcg67
I've noticed that they can help you improve DPS either a bit or by a lot; but my biggest issue, if you will, about Spreadsheets and what not is that you can't really play the game to the full ability of your class unless you go out and download these things. I'm not what some would consider "hardcore" or anything, so going and getting these things and doing hours of research just to play a game; seems a bit to much. Sure everyone wants to be the best at whatever they are doing, but for a video game, espeically one that you have to pay for. That's just a bit to much right there. Haven't really explored the DPS classes that much, I stick to tanking and healing mostly.
Are all DPS classes this way? Do they all pretty much require you to download spreadsheets and such just to squeeze that extra 100 or whatever the number might be DPS out of your rotation?
Granted I have downloaded Open Office (which thank you much by the way, had no idea about it) which will let me view the spread sheets, but it also helps when I need to possibly view business related things in the future, so thats a huge plus. Many thanks for that one.
Why does the Rogue class not seem to have a set style of rotation? Are there no other examples of what you want to do? Granted what I do is Garrote, HfB, Muti to 3-4 points and SnD, and than Muti to 5 and Envenom. Thats my general rotation, with things added here and there pending if it's a boss fight or what have you. Is there no other rotations for example? Tried looking on the forums and every time I try to find a rotation it just directs me to a spread sheet; kind of cumbersome when you only need one answer to a question and the question is not directly answered.
Post by
335609
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Post by
Doring
Haven't really explored the DPS classes that much, I stick to tanking and healing mostly.
Ok, basically, all classes have some kind of tool such as a spread sheet or simulation in order to maximize the potential output of the class. As a tank, there are spreadsheets and guides and simulations on how to spec, gem and enchant as well as guides on rotations to use in order to maximize threat per second. There are priorities such as get Def capped, then get hit capped, then get... and so on. For healers, there are the same kinds of tools to get the maximum healing per second and mana recovery per second as well as guides on how to get the most healing in a situation for the mana used. Rogues are no different, maybe just a little more "intense" or competative about it and even then, I am not so sure about that either.
Are all DPS classes this way? Do they all pretty much require you to download spreadsheets and such just to squeeze that extra 100 or whatever the number might be DPS out of your rotation?
Yes, in order to get the most out of your gear and make the best gearing choices at any given time, all DPS classes need to use some kind of tool available. And it isn't just for small bits of DPS either as some would suggest. Based on spec, similar looking pieces of gear that have stat A may either be a DPS increase of as much as 250 DPS or a decrease of as much as 100 DPS and still have the same iLevel and the same basic stats. This is agrivated with gemming and enchanting choices as they again can amount to many hundreds of DPS alone and that is simply the difference in gemming based on a formula from one of the stickies and using a spreadsheet.
I helped a rogue in person with their gemming and enchants and while they had better gear than I did at the time, they turned out, on average, about half of the DPS that I did in raids. After we went through their gems and enchants as well as worked on their rotation a bit, they were able to match my DPS on average. This is without using a spreadsheet, based on experience, once they really got into doing so, they should have been able to produce about 20% more DPS over me. That is how much of a difference spreadsheeting can make. And that is why is it so very important to master if you want to perform well in raids.
Why does the Rogue class not seem to have a set style of rotation? Are there no other examples of what you want to do? Granted what I do is Garrote, HfB, Muti to 3-4 points and SnD, and than Muti to 5 and Envenom.
There is no real set in stone rotation because rogues of different specs and under different situations need to adjust to get the best damage possible. Rogues are the most singularly specialized class in the game, in my opinion. We don't buff the raid, we don't swap jobs, we can't really vary too much what we do, we close the range to our target and commence to pouring massive amounts of damage into them until they die. The faster we can do that, the better, we have nothing else to offer the raid beased on class. Our CC is lack luster and getting worse in Cata, our ranged ability is laughable and our AOE has it's place, but has no range so we again must close and kill. If you only do one thing, you need to be very good at it to continue to be invited to raids. After all, if a rogue, a druid and a shaman all do about the same DPS and the raid doesn't have any of them already, the raid leader starts to look at utility and then the rogue looses out. Now, if the rogue puts out 2K DPS more than the others, well that goes a long way in getting invited.
Oh, and on a final note after my WOT, you could use working on your rotation.
In boss fights, try starting with Garotte, then HfB, if you are speced right, you should have a CP so you can start Slice and Dice right away. Then mutilate and if you are close to Slice and Dice falling, envenom right off to get it maxed out. After that, mutilate to 4-5 CP, envenom (try not to cut off the previous envenom buff as that looses DPS) and repeat. If you are within 5 seconds of HfB dropping and you don't have a bleed on the target, then rupture with whatever CP you have and then refresh your HfB. Never let Slice and Dice drop, ever, even if you have to refresh it with a 1 CP envenom. You should see a very noticable increase in your DPS.
Hope this helps.
Doring
Post by
KidB
$%^&ing spreadsheets, how do they work?
Post by
176977
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
481420
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Liquoid
Where iz sticky halp
Post by
CeeKay
in the time it took to generate the posts you've written here you could have downloaded iDPS for rogues and made it your b1tch, thus securing your place at the proverbial top of rogue preformance.
IMO less qq moar pewpew.
Post by
313105
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Post by
127603
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zxian
Rating Buster won't give you the EP of stats given your current gear like a spreadsheet does. Simply telling you that you trade 0.5% haste for 0.8% ArP doesn't give you much information regarding your theoretical DPS output - Spreadsheets do.
Even for someone who knows their class, spreadsheets are the best way to go. Honestly, it's not hard to download, open up and set your gear according to your character.
Post by
326518
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
trollsrlanky
You aren't limited to using excel. As mentioned earlier,
OpenOffice
works just as well. Free, too.
Speadsheets aren't 100% needed but if you want to be the best rogue you can then you'll need to use one whether you like it or not.
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