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Thou shalt not kill...
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Post by
Squishalot
Even laws, the closest thing to facts in science, can be flawed, and will be changed to fit the evidence as necessary.
Then why can't you accept that there may be changes in God's laws? :)
@ Orranis, just wanted to reiterate my comment again, because I think you skipped it over in replying to Adamsm:
Orranis, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you believe that the 'right' thing to do is what God tells you to do, then such killing is 'right' also.
You're implicitly assuming that 'killing others' is the wrong thing to do, so where's your fundamental reason for believing that?
I'm not arguing from my perspective, I'm arguing from a religious to show his is flawed. God states that it is immoral to murder, so he is immoral.
Just to be clear - the Greeks used to argue that what was moral was what the Gods willed. God states that it is immoral for us to murder, so if we murder, it's wrong. But if he wants to murder, that's his will, and therefore it's right.
You see? You're not arguing from a religious perspective.
Post by
499948
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343569
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313143
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Post by
Orranis
Even laws, the closest thing to facts in science, can be flawed, and will be changed to fit the evidence as necessary.
Then why can't you accept that there may be changes in God's laws? :)
@ Orranis, just wanted to reiterate my comment again, because I think you skipped it over in replying to Adamsm:
Orranis, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you believe that the 'right' thing to do is what God tells you to do, then such killing is 'right' also.
You're implicitly assuming that 'killing others' is the wrong thing to do, so where's your fundamental reason for believing that?
I'm not arguing from my perspective, I'm arguing from a religious to show his is flawed. God states that it is immoral to murder, so he is immoral.
Just to be clear - the Greeks used to argue that what was moral was what the Gods willed. God states that it is immoral for us to murder, so if we murder, it's wrong. But if he wants to murder, that's his will, and therefore it's right.
You see? You're not arguing from a religious perspective.
I can only go so far into someone else's perspective. I simply could not imagine defining something as right just because the man in the white coat/toga told you to. Justified, perhaps, but not right.
Post by
Squishalot
I can only go so far into someone else's perspective. I simply could not imagine defining something as right just because the man in the white coat/toga told you to. Justified, perhaps, but not right.
I'm not arguing from my perspective,
I'm arguing from a religious
to show his is flawed.
Then you're not looking from a religious perspective, and your point is moot. A religious perspective is that God is always right.
Post by
Orranis
I can only go so far into someone else's perspective. I simply could not imagine defining something as right just because the man in the white coat/toga told you to. Justified, perhaps, but not right.
I'm not arguing from my perspective,
I'm arguing from a religious
to show his is flawed.
Then you're not looking from a religious perspective, and your point is moot. A religious perspective is that God is always right.
Your
religious perspective is that God is always right, if we're going to get politically correct here. I know a few Christians who believe that God is a d*ckhead, but worth praying to to get into heaven.
Post by
Squishalot
I can only go so far into someone else's perspective. I simply could not imagine defining something as right just because the man in the white coat/toga told you to. Justified, perhaps, but not right.
I'm not arguing from my perspective,
I'm arguing from a religious
to show his is flawed.
Then you're not looking from a religious perspective, and your point is moot. A religious perspective is that God is always right.
Your
religious perspective is that God is always right, if we're going to get politically correct here. I know a few Christians who believe that God is a d*ckhead, but worth praying to to get into heaven.
Then, to quote MyTie, they're not really Christians. Going through the motions won't get you anywhere, as far as I'm aware.
Besides, if you think God is a d*ckhead, then why would you care about the commandments about not murdering? There's still no contradiction, as such.
Post by
Skreeran
I can only go so far into someone else's perspective. I simply could not imagine defining something as right just because the man in the white coat/toga told you to. Justified, perhaps, but not right.
I'm not arguing from my perspective,
I'm arguing from a religious
to show his is flawed.
Then you're not looking from a religious perspective, and your point is moot. A religious perspective is that God is always right.
Your
religious perspective is that God is always right, if we're going to get politically correct here. I know a few Christians who believe that God is a d*ckhead, but worth praying to to get into heaven.
Then, to quote MyTie, they're not really Christians. Going through the motions won't get you anywhere, as far as I'm aware.
Besides, if you think God is a d*ckhead, then why would you care about the commandments about not murdering? There's still no contradiction, as such.What right have you to say that they're not christians?
Post by
Orranis
I can only go so far into someone else's perspective. I simply could not imagine defining something as right just because the man in the white coat/toga told you to. Justified, perhaps, but not right.
I'm not arguing from my perspective,
I'm arguing from a religious
to show his is flawed.
Then you're not looking from a religious perspective, and your point is moot. A religious perspective is that God is always right.
Your
religious perspective is that God is always right, if we're going to get politically correct here. I know a few Christians who believe that God is a d*ckhead, but worth praying to to get into heaven.
Then, to quote MyTie, they're not really Christians. Going through the motions won't get you anywhere, as far as I'm aware.
Besides, if you think God is a d*ckhead, then why would you care about the commandments about not murdering? There's still no contradiction, as such.What right have you to say that they're not christians?
I do, and that's why he's a d*ckhead. Because he murders people. I don't care about the commandment not to murder people, I care about people not murdering each other 'cause it's morally incorrect.
Who would you rather have as your friend?
A. "I won't steal this bike because there will be consequences to this action that I do not want to face. AKA FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!11!"
B. I won't steal this bike because it's a d*ck move.
Post by
Adamsm
...As said through out the thread, God is a @#$% and a massive SoB, again, refer to anything in Old Testament.
Post by
Skreeran
Sometimes I wish there was an afterlife just so we could see who is right... :P
Unfortunately, people are going to be believing in faeries for years to come and there's nothing I can do to stop it. I can't go up to my dead mum and say "See, I told you there was no afterlife," because she can't hear me.
Post by
Squishalot
What right have you to say that they're not christians?
The fact that they're calling God a d*ck? And that MyTie isn't here to defend his faith, so I'm acting on his behalf.
Who would you rather have as your friend?
A. "I won't steal this bike because there will be consequences to this action that I do not want to face. AKA FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!11!"
B. I won't steal this bike because it's a d*ck move.
Funnily enough, if that is their entire thought process, I'd actually rather A, because he understands the action and consequence effect. Person B is likely to end up with a clash of morals with me eventually, and do something stupid without considering the consequences. Remove the fire and brimstone bit, and person A becomes someone extremely intelligent. Person B sounds like a whiny teenager whose next statement will be that the world doesn't understand him.
I care about people not murdering each other 'cause it's morally incorrect.
Again - why is murdering morally incorrect? And I believe it's morally incorrect, I just can't stand to have people accuse others of their beliefs, without understanding why they believe in something in the first place.
I can't go up to my dead mum and say "See, I told you there was no afterlife," because she can't hear me.
Well of course you can't, she doesn't exist if there's no afterlife :P
Do you believe in a soul?
Post by
Skreeran
The fact that they're calling God a d*ck? And that MyTie isn't here to defend his faith, so I'm acting on his behalf.They can believe whatever they want to believe and have just as much right to it as any other theist.
Well of course you can't, she doesn't exist if there's no afterlife :P
Do you believe in a soul?I do not believe in a soul. After I die there is nothing.
Post by
Orranis
I care about people not murdering each other 'cause it's morally incorrect.
Again - why is murdering morally incorrect? And I believe it's morally incorrect, I just can't stand to have people accuse others of their beliefs, without understanding why they believe in something in the first place.
Why is anything morally correct? All I know that the survival of my species is how we are innately programmed, and to kill one of our own would be counter to that one inborn instinct.
Post by
TheMediator
Funnily enough, if that is their entire thought process, I'd actually rather A, because he understands the action and consequence effect. Person B is likely to end up with a clash of morals with me eventually, and do something stupid without considering the consequences. Remove the fire and brimstone bit, and person A becomes someone extremely intelligent. Person B sounds like a whiny teenager whose next statement will be that the world doesn't understand him.
Uhhh... what?
Person A, you take away the consequence for murder, and you give him an incentive to kill, and he will kill you and be proud of his actions. Person B, he wouldn't harm you even if there weren't consequences for his actions. Sadly you are unintelligent, I am tired of beating around the bush, you seem to say things directly against logic just to cause an argument, when there is no reason to create an argument out of nothing - although you are too unintelligent to reach this conclusion.
Post by
Squishalot
Person B, he wouldn't harm you even if there weren't consequences for his actions.
Person B would also kill me if I went across his moral code, without concern for any consequences.
But I guess you're too busy telling me that I'm unintelligent, for understanding that consequences exist, and that everybody is motivated by consequences, and that consequences represent a key part of any animal learningi behaviour, including humans.
Or unintelligent for wasting time disagreeing with you on a point that you don't seem capable of getting, perhaps. That one I might agree to.
Edit: I realise that I'm not making myself clear. Let me be precise about what I think of your decision making examples:
Person A: I understand that there are repercussions and consequences to every action, and so I will choose to do and not do things based on the consequences.
Person B: I'll do what I think is right, and I won't consider the consequences in my decision making.
Perhaps you want to come up with a better example?
Oh wait, I just realised, I must be unintelligent because I'm wasting more time replying to you. Oh crap, I just did it again!
They can believe whatever they want to believe and have just as much right to it as any other theist.
Yep, they can. That doesn't make them Christians though, that just makes them agnostics with morals. Why would they be looking forward to their afterlife with a deity they think is a d*ck?
I do not believe in a soul. After I die there is nothing.
Ok, cool then. That's all I wanted to know.
Why is anything morally correct? All I know that the survival of my species is how we are innately programmed, and to kill one of our own would be counter to that one inborn instinct.
That would also suggest that homosexuality is wrong, because it doesn't work towards the survival of your species.
Then consider that killing is innate in the survival of our species, survival of the fittest.
Post by
Orranis
Why is anything morally correct? All I know that the survival of my species is how we are innately programmed, and to kill one of our own would be counter to that one inborn instinct.
That would also suggest that homosexuality is wrong, because it doesn't work towards the survival of your species.
Then consider that killing is innate in the survival of our species, survival of the fittest.
Not necessarily. Homosexuality is most likely a genetic mutation, and as we know the laws of natural selection state that if it doesn't work towards the survival or rise of our species, it shall be bred out of the species. Obviously the fact that it hasn't yet means that it either will soon or has no effect on our survival.
Post by
Squishalot
Not necessarily. Homosexuality is most likely a genetic mutation, and as we know the laws of natural selection state that if it doesn't work towards the survival or rise of our species, it shall be bred out of the species. Obviously the fact that it hasn't yet means that it either will soon or has no effect on our survival.
Or because it can't be bred out, because it may be a recessive gene that's inherent to people, just like left-handedness.
Just like anger and aggression. But anyway, back to the point - killing and asserting dominant authority over others is inherent in people. Can you deny that?
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