This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
The Easter spirit - bringing discussion back into Randomness.
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Queggy
Two came by on
Easter Sunday itself
for Christ's sake.
Literally.
;)
(Well, in their eyes that is . . . I wouldn't really call them Christian . . .)
Post by
149406
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
I wouldn't try to convert her out of Christianity.
That's her decision, so why can't she see Atheism is mine?
What about if she was a member of one of those suicide cults?
Post by
Orranis
1) In the opening passages of Genesis, God is referred to as 'they'. Does that imply a pantheon?
Where do you see this? Also keep in mind this could be a bad translation from Hebrew.
2) Later in Genesis, Abraham is asked by God to sacrifice his son, and is stopped by an angel. Does this mean that he's putting what an angel said over what God said?
This was interpreted as a test, to see if his faith was unflinching. God never really wanted the son dead, only to see if Abraham would kill Isaac.
3) In Exodus, God tells Moses that he "will harden the hearts of the Egyptians and they will stubbornly follow you, whereupon I will collapse the waves down upon them and destroy them" (paraphrased). Isn't this a contravention of the free will concept?
A contradiction in the bible? Never! Doesn't God running rampant and murdering firstborn children also contradict the ten commandments?
4) If Christians paraded outside an Athiest convention with placards, shouting slogans, there wouldn't be an issue. If athiests paraded outside a church with placards, shouting slogans, chances are that they'd be dragged away by the police. Double standards, do you think?
Of course, if this happened. Though would they? I have never seen Athiests do this, so I couldn't say.
5) If we are all God's children, and he's the heavenly Father, then why do people insist on saying that he sacrificed his "
one and only son
"?
Meh, we are all 'God's children' in the sense that he created are ancestors. However that does not make him a father biologically. God biologically fathered Jesus (or... sort of did.)
6th and finally - All things considered, isn't worship of Jesus akin to congratulating a sock puppet for the things the puppeteer does?
That's all in how you look at it. I disagree with that statement, though I do not agree with Jesus being God's child either.
Post by
Squishalot
Where do you see this? Also keep in mind this could be a bad translation from Hebrew.
Creation, the first seven days. Not sure which verse exactly, because I just recall hearing it in Mass. I can look it up and get back to you if you like. Agree that it could be a translation, but the BIble is inerrant, no?
This was interpreted as a test, to see if his faith was unflinching. God never really wanted the son dead, only to see if Abraham would kill Isaac.
Oh definitely, I understand the point. But see above - if an authority tells you something, and one of their underlings comes up and tells you something to the contrary, who do you listen to?
A contradiction in the bible? Never! Doesn't God running rampant and murdering firstborn children also contradict the ten commandments?
Cynic :) In any event, it's always been a case of "do as I say, not as I do" - that's one thing mankind learned from God, definitely.
Of course, if this happened. Though would they? I have never seen Athiests do this, so I couldn't say.
I haven't seen it happen. It was a hypothetical that crossed my mind, and thus far, nobody believes that it wouldn't happen that way.
Meh, we are all 'God's children' in the sense that he created are ancestors. However that does not make him a father biologically. God biologically fathered Jesus (or... sort of did.)
See above point - Wouldn't that make Adam even more of a son than Jesus?
That's all in how you look at it. I disagree with that statement, though I do not agree with Jesus being God's child either.
How religious (or non-religious) are you? :)
Realistically, look at the comparisons:
God creates Jesus.
Puppeteer creates puppet.
God considers Jesus his son.
Puppeteer has a significant bond with his puppet.
Jesus *is* God.
Puppet *is* the puppeteer.
Jesus is the physical image that the people of Earth see.
The puppet is the physical image that the people see.
People sing songs worshipping Jesus to the extent of leaving God out of the song entirely. (This is like chatting up the bouncer of a club to get in and barring the owner.)
People lavish praise on the puppet and the press write articles on how good a performa... wait a minute!
Post by
393249
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
Where do you see this? Also keep in mind this could be a bad translation from Hebrew.
Creation, the first seven days. Not sure which verse exactly, because I just recall hearing it in Mass. I can look it up and get back to you if you like. Agree that it could be a translation, but the BIble is inerrant, no?
Nope, I'm Athiest and I came from a Jewish family, but even then the bible comes in Hebrew from Moses, any mistranslations can be acceptable.
Here is the page your looking for, I can't find anything of the sort.
This was interpreted as a test, to see if his faith was unflinching. God never really wanted the son dead, only to see if Abraham would kill Isaac.
Oh definitely, I understand the point. But see above - if an authority tells you something, and one of their underlings comes up and tells you something to the contrary, who do you listen to?
Your thinking of them as if they are too unconnected. I've been brought up being told that the angels and God's goal are one and the same, their means also perfectly in line. They are just messengers of his will.
A contradiction in the bible? Never! Doesn't God running rampant and murdering firstborn children also contradict the ten commandments?
Cynic :) In any event, it's always been a case of "do as I say, not as I do" - that's one thing mankind learned from God, definitely.
Moses killing an Egyptian slave-master?
Of course, if this happened. Though would they? I have never seen Athiests do this, so I couldn't say.
I haven't seen it happen. It was a hypothetical that crossed my mind, and thus far, nobody believes that it wouldn't happen that way.
Well I'm not so sure if they would. I know the Christians would kick up an ironic fuss, but arrested? I'm not so sure. I could see it happening though.
Meh, we are all 'God's children' in the sense that he created are ancestors. However that does not make him a father biologically. God biologically fathered Jesus (or... sort of did.)
See above point - Wouldn't that make Adam even more of a son than Jesus?
God made Adam out of dirt, God made Jesus by impregnating Mary. One is his creation, the other is his son. I'm merely playing devils advocate here, I doubt God blew his load in a fourteen year old.
That's all in how you look at it. I disagree with that statement, though I do not agree with Jesus being God's child either.
How religious (or non-religious) are you? :)
Realistically, look at the comparisons:
God creates Jesus.
Puppeteer creates puppet.
God considers Jesus his son.
Puppeteer has a significant bond with his puppet.
Jesus *is* God.
Puppet *is* the puppeteer.
Jesus is the physical image that the people of Earth see.
The puppet is the physical image that the people see.
People sing songs worshipping Jesus to the extent of leaving God out of the song entirely. (This is like chatting up the bouncer of a club to get in and barring the owner.)
People lavish praise on the puppet and the press write articles on how good a performa... wait a minute!
God created Adam, God fathered Jesus. I'm technically Agnostic, though I doubt that if there is a creator he gives a ^&*! if you do your torah portion on your thirteenth birthday.
Post by
Squishalot
Nope, I'm Athiest and I came from a Jewish family, but even then the bible comes in Hebrew from Moses, any mistranslations can be acceptable. Here is the page your looking for, I can't find anything of the sort.
26 And God said: 'Let
us
make man in
our
image, after
our
likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
The royal plural?
Your thinking of them as if they are too unconnected. I've been brought up being told that the angels and God's goal are one and the same, their means also perfectly in line. They are just messengers of his will.
So someone else has stated too. But there have been times when others have questioned what an angel or spirit has said, even with an "are you sure?", especially if it's contradictory with what they understand God to want. Abraham seemed just a little *too* eager to stop.
Moses killing an Egyptian slave-master?
No, we learned to have double standards - one rule for me, and one rule for the people who I'm telling what to do.
Well I'm not so sure if they would. I know the Christians would kick up an ironic fuss, but arrested? I'm not so sure. I could see it happening though.
I was discussing it with my girlfriend - she concluded that the churchgoers would probably claim that they were fearful, which would be grounds for an arrest, or at least, a 'move along' order. Given that my girlfriend is Catholic, I don't think it'd be wise for me to test it out :)
God made Adam out of dirt, God made Jesus by impregnating Mary. One is his creation, the other is his son. I'm merely playing devils advocate here, I doubt God blew his load in a fourteen year old.
All things considered, if you imagine a young engaged female in the Middle East today making such a claim, I'm surprised that Mary wasn't stoned to death or honor killed, back in the day. But to your statement, I don't believe that Mary's physical egg had anything to do with Jesus - she would have been artificially inseminated. A clone, as you will, and in fact, that would also explain why Jesus is God! Oh how it all falls into place! ;)
Otherwise Jesus would have been a demigod, not God, heh.
God created Adam, God fathered Jesus. I'm technically Agnostic, though I doubt that if there is a creator he gives a ^&*! if you do your torah portion on your thirteenth birthday.
I don't see terribly much difference - the bond itself is irrelevant to the point of how much worship and praise Jesus gets above and beyond what God gets, from Christian circles.
And agnostic in a Jewish family... that's got to be tough :)
Post by
Orranis
Nope, I'm Athiest and I came from a Jewish family, but even then the bible comes in Hebrew from Moses, any mistranslations can be acceptable. Here is the page your looking for, I can't find anything of the sort.
26 And God said: 'Let
us
make man in
our
image, after
our
likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
The royal plural?
Overlooked that. Well, ^&*!.
Your thinking of them as if they are too unconnected. I've been brought up being told that the angels and God's goal are one and the same, their means also perfectly in line. They are just messengers of his will.
So someone else has stated too. But there have been times when others have questioned what an angel or spirit has said, even with an "are you sure?", especially if it's contradictory with what they understand God to want. Abraham seemed just a little *too* eager to stop.
He was going to kill his son because God told him to, not because he liked it. I would be eager to stop as well...
Moses killing an Egyptian slave-master?
No, we learned to have double standards - one rule for me, and one rule for the people who I'm telling what to do.
Well I'm not so sure if they would. I know the Christians would kick up an ironic fuss, but arrested? I'm not so sure. I could see it happening though.
I was discussing it with my girlfriend - she concluded that the churchgoers would probably claim that they were fearful, which would be grounds for an arrest, or at least, a 'move along' order. Given that my girlfriend is Catholic, I don't think it'd be wise for me to test it out :)
God made Adam out of dirt, God made Jesus by impregnating Mary. One is his creation, the other is his son. I'm merely playing devils advocate here, I doubt God blew his load in a fourteen year old.
All things considered, if you imagine a young engaged female in the Middle East today making such a claim, I'm surprised that Mary wasn't stoned to death or honor killed, back in the day. But to your statement, I don't believe that Mary's physical egg had anything to do with Jesus - she would have been artificially inseminated. A clone, as you will, and in fact, that would also explain why Jesus is God! Oh how it all falls into place! ;)
Otherwise Jesus would have been a demigod, not God, heh.
I don't have any evidence for my claims which is why I don't believe them. I guess there's no point in me arguing.
God created Adam, God fathered Jesus. I'm technically Agnostic, though I doubt that if there is a creator he gives a ^&*! if you do your torah portion on your thirteenth birthday.
I don't see terribly much difference - the bond itself is irrelevant to the point of how much worship and praise Jesus gets above and beyond what God gets, from Christian circles.
And agnostic in a Jewish family... that's got to be tough :)
Not really, Judaism fathered Athiesm. Plus, my dad is athiest. My moms religious, but she's alright. The rest of them are racist Zionists.
Post by
Squishalot
Judaism fathered Athiesm? How did you come to that theory?
Sounds like a nice family you have, lol.
Post by
Orranis
Judaism fathered Athiesm? How did you come to that theory?
Sounds like a nice family you have, lol.
It's my dads, because if you read the Haggadah you'll see that the whole idea of Judaism is to question. While originally it was intended to be "why do we observe this," it's turned into something more. Also, my father believes you can be Jewish without having faith in God.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I'm not sure if I should cut in, or just answer the OP, heh.
Post by
Orranis
I'm not sure if I should cut in, or just answer the OP, heh.
Do both. And what happened to your avatar?
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
If believing in God and Christianity is what makes her happy, then so be it.
Is happiness the be all and end all of belief, though?
Post by
Patty
My question, to all the atheists/agnostics that are on the internet - there are certainly many - is this: what exactly do you believe happens after death? Is there a specific reason that you don't believe in any sort of higher being, whether you find it silly, or unlikely, or just choose not to simply because you don't believe? I'm not going to judge, don't worry =)Kind of hopping into this thread, but I am an atheist. I believe that when I die, I will be burnt and my ashes scattered and hidden, or if I'm buried I will decompose. Nothing more, nothing less. I also do not believe in things there is no evidence of, the Bible is all very badly sourced information if it happened to be correct.
Another inconsistency about Easter though. If Jesus was sacrificed to atone for our sins, why must we be baptised to appease the original sin of eating the apple from the tree in the Garden of Eden?
Post by
Queggy
Another inconsistency about Easter though. If Jesus was sacrificed to atone for our sins, why must we be baptised to appease the original sin of eating the apple from the tree in the Garden of Eden?
Whaaa?
Baptism is merely a way of showing other people that you have accepted Christ.
Post by
Adamsm
Another inconsistency about Easter though. If Jesus was sacrificed to atone for our sins, why must we be baptised to appease the original sin of eating the apple from the tree in the Garden of Eden?
Whaaa?
Baptism is merely a way of showing other people that you have accepted Christ.
Yeah, but some of the more extreme types say that unbaptized babies go straight to limbo if they die heh.
Post by
260787
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
kattib
Meh I am Jewish but I probably swing between that or athiest depending on how faithful I feel
Religion is a funny thing, go ahead and believe in whatever but dont try to go around and tell people what to do based on your own beliefs. After that whatever, talk about how some dead random guy loves you so much for all I care :P
at the moment on a scale of 1-10 10 being most belief in god at this moment 1 being least I say im at a....2.847
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.