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ICC tanking question
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Post by
Domoaligato
I dont trust the armory achievements...
It still shows me as not having completed most of the old dungeons...
yeah...
That's probably because you completed them before that feature of the armory was implemented.
Put in a ticket to the gm's and they will fix them in your acheivements.
Post by
valundar
I dont trust the armory achievements...
It still shows me as not having completed most of the old dungeons...
yeah...
That's probably because you completed them before that feature of the armory was implemented.
Put in a ticket to the gm's and they will fix them in your acheivements.
nah... ill just use it as a good excuse to go clear old content again.
Post by
Decendent
Ok so this thread honestly made me second guess myself. So i've been looking at the charts and the graphs, and decided to change my spec to the cookie cutter and try it out all weekend(again).
I ran ICC 25(first 3 bosses), ToC 25 (Up to anub), ToC 10 Full Clear, and a large number of random heroics.
In comparison to my old spec of 64/7 I found this out.
Pros:
More DPS/TPS thanks to crusade. Not a great deal more, but enough to when I saw it, I said “Not bad”
Cons:
Survivability went down in raids.
Mana stayed low in Heroics
I noticed my overall health seemed to stay lower than it normally did. 9/10 times I look up I normally see a full bar of HP. With the cookie cutter, it was all over the place, 5/10 times it would be half way. This could be on the fault of the healer, but ive ran with many healers and it’s a large coincidence that I consistently notice less health after the spec switch.
The few times we wiped, I was one of among the first to die, when with my old spec I’m always among the last to die (and no it’s not due to loss of threat, let me make that clear)
In heroics, I was running out of mana a good bit, which would slow my rotation and ultimately it caused me to lose agro a couple times(I was running with some heavy hitters). It was like that until I switched to Judgement of Wisdom, which kept my mana up, but It makes me uneasy because took away Judgement of Light which makes the healers job easier.
So end result: I gained a little more DPS, but I still didn’t feel like I gained any TPS because I had no problems with threat before(Although I could have been gaining a momentus amount of TPS which would allow the DPS to really open up.) But I Feel like I lost a good bit of survivability due to the loss of Divinity and 1 point in Spiritual Attunement. It makes me feel a little uncomfortable knowing that 3 good utilities for survival (JoL, Spritual Att, and Divinity) were sacrificed for threat, when I didn’t have a problem with it before.
I noticed in all the charts and graphs, all they talk about is threat…threat threat threat….but nothing says anything about survivability other than gemming and enchanting for stamina, when I feel there is a lot more to it then that.
For instance: I made a macro that casts Divine Sacrifice, Divine Protection(for me), Satrinas Impeding Scarab(+4k HP), and Corroded Skeleton Key (absorbs 6k damage) all that the same time, so basically I become invincible for a short time while the raid takes over 30% less damage. I’ve never seen any guide to do anything like that…I just thought of it. OR heres a better example…this has happened to me several times…your fighting a boss and for some reason your main healer goes down…I have an “oh SH*T!” button macro that casts Seal of light, Corroded Skeleton Key, Satrians Impeding Scarab, This gives me a moment of invulnerability, and increases my HP so that my SoL hits hare healing me for a lot, which in turn raised my mana alot, combined with judgement of light…And it doesn’t burn any protection spells that will cause me to lose my Lay of Hands(should I need it)…I have around 50k HP Self buffed, I can raise my HP from half to full on my own with that button in just a few seconds. With 53/18, I can’t do that because the Spiritual attunement wont keep my mana up enough, and without divinity im healing myself for less. I guess it’s just a matter of preference, survivability and threat and where you want to be on that plane…I guess I liked being right in the middle. Versatile.
Are there any guides, charts, or advice for tanking survivability? Because threat is just one half of the equation, the other is being able to survive. If any of you have any suggestions I will definitely look into it.
I am going to use the 53/18 for a bit longer to see if it grows on me and see what my guild thinks, if they notice a difference for the better or worse. Sorry things got so confrontational in the early part of our discussion, hopefully we can actually turn this into something beneficial for everyone.
Post by
138535
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Decendent
Thanks...Ill check that out as soon as I can.
Post by
Domoaligato
sorry for the wall of text.
How did you lose Judgement of Light ? you might need to drag that back out onto your bars after respecing....
heroics: Pull MOAR Mobs! and look for bugs to swat between pulls. (thanks quest)...
yes it kinda sucks not having the extra mana from the 2/2 SA and the healing intake from Divinity but when I am running with dps in the 5900-6k GS range (I know GS doesn't matter), the extra threat helps.
I might get /facepalm, but this is the spec that i used
before I totally went away from divinity
I am just not a fan of using the divine sacrifice and divine guardian when it normally means we will still wipe because the raid is not doing the mechanics correctly. I run with my casual guild only and when we say "stop! wipe it up" then we discuss why we lost the mechanic and give it another shot until we get it. I love when we go on a farming run in Naxx and someone thinks they can overpower the mechanics and causes a wipe.
With your gear being at the soft hit cap and one point under the soft expertise cap(without the Seal of Vengence/Corruption glyph) Threat should not be a issue with your gear and 969. Just tell the dps to give you the full 5 seconds before they dps. That TPS lead is sometimes enough to decide the whole fight when you don;t have to look at the omen as much.
Post by
Decendent
Well I want to be that tank that the DPS can rely on, which I normally am. I want to be able to run in there and as soon as the DPS see me hit my HotR, they know “ok…dec’s got’em…lets open’er up!” and just let loose. At the same time I don’t want to be the tank that the healers are sweating to keep alive. Like I said, I have never had an issue with threat really before, and the Divinity was nice to make the healers job easier…it kinda makes me wonder if I just haven’t been playing with people that are on my level. Maybe no Divinity won’t be a big deal with a healer on my level, and a DPS on my level is going to want me to max out my threat. I just joined a new guild so hopefully that will be a thing of the past.
And I didn’t mean I lost SoL and JoL…I just meant they aren’t nearly as effective now without Divinity. I could pretty much solo most heroic bosses with those 2 and Divinity.
Post by
hatman555
I'm sorry? When did we turn around and start being nice to this guy?
You can go a head and write something to apologize for this:
...apparently alot of prot pallys are ROCKING the down syndrome.
Ya, I get it, culture these days, "retard" is the new "stupid", but please do not let it progress so far as to where you are actually using the name of a terrible terrible birth defect to try and defend your incompetence by insulting others.
As for your paladin tanking "skills" News flash. Paladin tanking is easy. Our taunts are really nice, our 3 hit hammer of bouncing doom is amazing for AOE tanking.
So relax, and learn the abilities that other paladins tanks don't use. Learn how to save your CD's for for a TOGC heroic so you can survive Ice howls enraged Massive Crash and be the last one alive to DPS him down. for those extra 15 seconds.
If your running out of mana, you are doing something wrong. In raids in heroics, wherever. 5% mana return on heals is way more than enough. So don't even start to say that you need 5% mana more for survivability.
You want to be a pro paladin tank? Well then tell me, how many
Nightmare Seeds
do you carry around with you? How many
Dark Rune
do you have?
Indestructible Potion's
?
Can you use Hand of Sacrifice in less than 2 seconds to save a raid member?
I'm sorry but listening to your posts, makes me laugh.
For instance: I made a macro that casts Divine Sacrifice, Divine Protection(for me), Satrinas Impeding Scarab(+4k HP), and Corroded Skeleton Key (absorbs 6k damage) all that the same time, so basically I become invincible for a short time while the raid takes over 30% less damage. I’ve never seen any guide to do anything like that…I just thought of it.
One of the draw backs of paladin tanking, is that we only have 1 truly amazing CD for on use effects. Divine Protection, "basically makes you become invincible" for those 12 seconds, Hots and lesser heals will keep you alive the same way 24K holy lights will. You don't need to chain all that other stuff with it. using all of your tools at the same time is a waste. Maybe that's why no guide has a macro for that. Divine Sacrifice, is a very nice ability that can be used as a tanking CD in only limited situations. The 20% damage reduction that it gives you for 6 seconds, it nice if you know you are the only one that will be taking damage. Use it then, not when $%^& hits the fan.
OR heres a better example…this has happened to me several times…your fighting a boss and for some reason your main healer goes down…I have an “oh SH*T!” button macro that casts Seal of light, Corroded Skeleton Key, Satrians Impeding Scarab, This gives me a moment of invulnerability, and increases my HP so that my SoL hits hare healing me for a lot, which in turn raised my mana alot, combined with judgement of light…And it doesn’t burn any protection spells that will cause me to lose my Lay of Hands(should I need it)…I have around 50k HP Self buffed, I can raise my HP from half to full on my own with that button in just a few seconds.
Its people talking like this that remind me alot of this
magic card
.
When nothing but the second best will do.
For your information.
Seal of light
, which you could easily roll over now and see, does the following :Fills the Paladin with divine light for 30 min, giving each melee attack a chance to heal the Paladin for . <----See that, Attack power and Spell power. Since none of your trinkets and/or CD's mentioned above raise your AP or your SPH, your seal isn't healing your for more. I'm not saying don't switch to it. I'm just saying that you shouldn't delude yourself with thoughts that its more efficient when you use your CD's
If your main healer goes down. Then you pop your Divine protection and forget about Lay hands. Like mention above, Divine protection works excessively well with minor heals and Hots. Divine protection is a much more effective use of forbearance then Lay on hands. When you see your protection about to expire, then you can use your HP increasing CD's in hopes that when you do die, your Ardent Defender, will crit and heal you for over 50% of your health.
With 53/18, I can’t do that because the Spiritual attunement wont keep my mana up enough,
Let me know what raid boss your fighting that doesn't keep your mana floating at 85% with only a 5% ROH. ....the only one I can think of is Gen.Vez in ulduar......but that's a different story.
and without divinity im healing myself for less. 5% less. Next time I get yelled at by a server at a restaurant for a 5% tip, I'll forward him to your post. Decendent says 5% is alot!
Sorry things got so confrontational in the early part of our discussion, hopefully we can actually turn this into something beneficial for everyone.
.....maybe this is why we are being nice to him. I'm still kinda turned off by all your degrading language before. Maybe more lines like this in future posts will turn that around.
Cheers,
Hat
p.s.
I'm definitely not the most experienced tank here either (I think that award would probably go to Hatman, though I'm not positive). And I'm even further behind in the math department (Probably to either Quest, svirve, or Blademeld).
Edit:
Also, Domoaligato, I don't know the exact math on that, so I'm going to let someone else take that question =p.
Thanks for the shout outs man. While think I am not the best paladin tank, because there is always room to improve. I do think that out of the paladins that post I have seen/completed/attempted a lot of the hardest current content.
Post by
Domoaligato
I am almost always nice unless someone is a complete tard to me.
I also carry
Runic Mana Potion
and
Greater Ward of Shielding
:)
thanks hat
Post by
Decendent
I'm sorry I was a little peaved when I offered my advice and got bashed for it by multiple people overnight. Yes thats going to offend most people and can cause them to lash out. I see hatman that your style of !@#$%^baggery hasn't faultered over the years...it's no wonder you don't go to thottbot anymore after reading the repeated slappings your attitude earned you there. I don't see why someone liking reckoning makes you so mad...what did reckoning ever do to you? /done
Thanks for the advice everyone. The 53/18 spec is a good spec no doubt, it's definitely designed with end-game content in mind...but I have decided to go back to my old settings. The overall usefullness and flexability of my old spec is too great for me to deny. No matter what situation I was in, I always stayed healed even with subpar healers, i rarely ran out of mana, and Reckoning proced like a gem on multi-mob situations. I have always been able to keep my threat high enough to keep multiple 8k DPS from pulling. Reckoning doesn't help much on single target bosses...but I never lost agro on them anyway, since crusade was only the 4th most effective threat talent(the first 3 being in the prot tree), I can see why. It does add a bit of DPS, but it's just not and "all around" type of spec, which is the kind of player I am...a "one size fits all" if you will. As I said, my character may not be quite as effective at end game material as a seasoned 53/18, but since I know how to play my character effectively, it's not gonna stop me from being able to beat anything that's thrown at me. So I again go back to my original statement of just use what works for you. Try things out, take advice from everyone until you find a "fit"...Some people want to call that ignorance...thats fine. But I have tried both specs and styles, I had the most fun and success on 64/7. So to me...it's not ignorance, it's preference.
Some of you should really take another look at 5/59/7, it's gaining alot of steam right now. I know most of you that spend hours making graphs and charts and crunching numbers to justify 53/18 are going to lash out at this....but remember numbers arn't everything, there are 100's and 100's of variables to consider that numbers just can't cover or explain. Thats fact.
-Dec
Post by
hatman555
I see hatman that your style of !@#$%^baggery hasn't faultered over the years...it's no wonder you don't go to thottbot anymore after reading the repeated slappings your attitude earned you there. I don't see why someone liking reckoning makes you so mad...what did reckoning ever do to you? /done
1.) What are you talking about? I start playing wow 3 months before WotLK came out, and my paladin 2 months after starting. I hit level 70 1 hour before the midnight release of Wrath, and joined wowhead in April of the following year. Since then, I have tried really really hard, to keep my posts mostly civil.
(sorry quest, for the fights we had, i relate to your posting style and game experience now, it just took me a bit to get used to the roughness of it)
I have earned the respect of the people that i respect on these forums, and that is my biggest victory.
2.) Thottbot? Really? I did quick search, can't really find anyone with the name Hatman on there. Can't say that im surprised tho. But anyways, ya, never been on thotbot or their comments or their forums. I tried finding information on their once, didn't like the lay out.
3.) Even in this post I gave you information that you could use to make yourself a better tank. True, it was a little back handed, but thats only because you act like an ass, and still have not apologized for your poor choice in language.
I know how to play my character effectively, it's not gonna stop me from being able to beat anything that's thrown at me.
Good for you man, I'm glad your getting your enjoyment out of the game. I'll make sure to add your wow-amrory to my list of favorites so i can check up every now and then to see how your doing with "anything that gets thrown at you"
So I again go back to my original statement of just use what works for you. Try things out, take advice from everyone until you find a "fit"... To everyone who is wiping multiple times on bosses, and maybe after the 8th or 9th attempt you get it down. <--- That is not working. There are things EVERYONE can do to make their characters better. Saying that something works for you when you are not completing the hardest challenges that this game can present is not ignorance or preference, its just failure.
Some people want to call that ignorance...thats fine. But I have tried both specs and styles, I had the most fun and success on 64/7. So to me...it's not ignorance, it's preference.
Fun is good, Fun is what the majority of the people that play this game want. Other people think its more fun to accomplish beating the game. But hey I'm not one to knock fun. But on a post where people are asking for advice, im not going to say, "try fighting the boss using unarmed skill, that will give your DPS a barrel of laughs"
There are other posts for such things.
I know most of you that spend hours making graphs and charts and crunching numbers to justify 53/18 are going to lash out at this....but remember numbers arn't everything, there are 100's and 100's of variables to consider that numbers just can't cover or explain. Thats fact.
Yes, I agree, the are many things that numbers don't deal with. Like how many of your healers are having a bad day, and arn't healing as well as they should be. Or how many of those healers just don't know how to heal that well in the first place. So what do we do? WE FOLLOW THE NUMBERS. we min/max ourselves as much as we can to handle those unexpected situations. If you know you are the best prepared you can be in terms of character stats, then that's something you can rely on.
Cheers,
Hat
Post by
Decendent
Hat, Why do you think I wipe 8 or 9 times? Ever since the first time I stepped into ICC, I have never had problems with my tanking, agro, efficiency/ or survivability. Anytime we wipe normally is the fault of the DPS doing stupid things and getting killed. With my current group, We effectively can 1 shot the entire first wing of ICC, I have never even seen rotface though, due to scheduling, I work for a living and have a family so I don't have alot of time to play. But when I do see Rotface, when we wipe(because it's a new boss) I'm sure my spec is not going to be the reason we wipe. Please don't pretend you know anything about me by looking at my wowarmory. Insinuating that you do is just ridiculous.
I would be more than happy to make a youtube video of me in my 64/7 spec holding agro on mulitple ICC mobs against 6, 7, and 8k DPS in a 25 man raid(which is much harder to do than a single target boss...i don't care what your spec is...if you can't hold agro on a single target then you need to stop tanking...period.) That was my whole problem with the 53/18 spec to begin with...sure its built for single target hard bosses, and it gives you a bit more threat and a bit more DPS in that situation, but honestly I feel if anyone needs to rely on the extra 6% from crusade to hold threat on a single target...then you have problems, and it ignores the larger factor of survivability against those harder bosses, which is where divinity really offers a helping hand. Multiple Adds/Mobs are where most tanks need the extra TPS, and Reckoning really shines when your taking on those multiples because it procs so often, just switch your target every few seconds and you'll end up holding everything in place...if one gets away, thats what HoR and Righteous defense are for. Maybe one of the reasons I have no threat problems is because I use the DPS 245 Libram, because i felt the dodge libram was really a waste considering it procs not quite as often as its DPS counterpart, plus the loss of 20% dodge in ICC makes dogde an avoidable stat in my eyes anyway. I mean if Agro really is the fault of my spec, then it's not much of a fault if I was able to 1 tank Lady deathwhisper with 5 stacks of debuff, hold agro, and the 10 man raid was able to down her before she enraged. Quick effective taunts was all it took...i suppose it's just knowing how to play your character.
Post by
260814
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Decendent
Great. So we can all do our jobs with the specs we prefer. Glad we can move on now. :)
FYI, most of the tanks I have seen that are geared for tackling the later bosses in ICC 25 all have divinity. I'm not sure if thats because they are tackling specific bosses or playing a very specific tank role for the fight...but that's what I have seen.
And it might be a freebie, but I know that the way my raid leader had me and the other tank tanking Deathwhisper 25 the other night is not how it's supposed to be done, but we pulled it off...we just had 1 tank on each side...and were able to grab and hold all 7 mobs. Some people here might think thats easy, I found it to be a welcome challenge.
Post by
Davidson
The first wing in ICC is commonly accepted as the "freebie" part of ICC. It's the part that was meant for people who have no chance in the latter wings, but Blizz wanted to make sure that they could still participate. Wiping, or having anyone die in there, is embarrassing. The real tank test is Festergut25. One of our tanks is the best geared.
This is actually surprisingly true. For my guild, I do strictly 10 mans (up to LK). My guild does 25 man, but I don't participate. So, sometimes I just pug ICC 25. The last time, it was a PuG that was put together in about 10 mins. We cleared through Saurfang with no wipes...as a PuG. We then went to Festergut and one of the tanks was instagibbed and we called it.
It was surprisingly easy, we had 3 tanks, with me being the highest geared one. The other two were below 5K GS and we cleared the wing with no problems. Mind you...
there were plenty of mistakes.
The other tanks on Marrowgar were dying left and right and getting battle rezzed...no wipe. My addons screwed me up on 25 man (they are set for 10 man) and I didn't taunt off Saurfang for like 30 seconds, blood beasts were sticking to melee dps b/c they were doing aoe...still no wipe.
Post by
hatman555
Hat, Why do you think I wipe 8 or 9 times? Because you sound like every other tank I know, who thinks they know how to play their class simply because they can tank a heroic?
Please don't pretend you know anything about me by looking at my wowarmory. Insinuating that you do is just ridiculous.
Never said i knew you...all i said is that i would keep tabs on you, because honestly, I want to see how far you do get.
I would be more than happy to make a youtube video of me in my 64/7 spec holding agro
A video would be AMAZING. Please make one and post one up. It would give alot of insite to other people on these forums as well.
Multiple Adds/Mobs are where most tanks need the extra TPS, and Reckoning really shines when your taking on those multiples because it procs so often, just switch your target every few seconds and you'll end up holding everything in place...if one gets away, thats what HoR and Righteous defense are for. Your talking about trash. Multiply mobs in ICC? Lets see. Lady death and Dreamwalker, but those fights are single target anyways, and if your DPS is AOEing then they need to change what they are doing. Gunships has a couple of adds, but your DPS should be worried about other things. Ya, so basically you are talking about tanking trash, and while I'm sure it sounds like you are doing a spot on job with trash, trash is not what holds a raid up in terms of progression. Not getting passed bosses does.
Maybe one of the reasons I have no threat problems is because I use the DPS 245 Libram, because i felt the dodge libram was really a waste considering it procs not quite as often as its DPS counterpart, plus the loss of 20% dodge in ICC makes dogde an avoidable stat in my eyes anyway.
See now I feel dumb. Am I getting trolled? I really can't tell. Please tell me that you are only using the DPS libram for trash, and you are using the dodge 245 for most bosses......
By theckhd on 08/11/2009 (Patch 3.2.0)
May be worth noting that with an 80% proc chance, the uptime on this buff will be around 98% with a standard 969 rotation (or any rotation that uses HotR on cooldown, for that matter).
So it's equivalent to a passive bonus of 200*0.98=196 dodge rating over the course of a long fight. I'm sorry? you were saying something about a bad proc chance?
I mean if Agro really is the fault of my spec, then it's not much of a fault if I was able to 1 tank Lady deathwhisper with 5 stacks of debuff, hold agro, and the 10 man raid was able to down her before she enraged. Quick effective taunts was all it took...i suppose it's just knowing how to play your character.
5 stacks of
Touch of Insignificance
= 100% less threat generation. At that point you are not generating any threat, which means that the only reason you are holding threat is because you were able to give yourself a nice threat lead. So ya, that's good. BUT, try doing LD on heroic in 10 man. Because in heroic mode, you can't taunt her. 0 taunting. Your HoR doesn't even deal damage.
Honestly man, you have some knowledge of your character and some knowledge of the fights. But your talking about things as if you know everything. And you clearly clearly do not.
Cheers,
Hat
And Hatman is probably one of the most civil people on these boards.
=] rarrrr, thanks again wing
Post by
Decendent
I never said I know everything...all I've said is I know what I like, and I know how to play my character.
As for LD Heroic...if you know a tank that can 1 tank her the whole fight on heroic then that person is amazing. I explained how I was able to hold threat on my fight, well timed effective taunts...not to take all the credit, there was a couple hunters who redirected their agro to me which helped. But raids arn't meant to be won by an individual anyway right? It's always a team effort.
Yes I use the DPS libram 100% of the time…a constant 400 AP boost? Constant 120 Spell power? Extra block? Whats not to love? I guess it keeps me from needing to spec into the ret tree that much so that I can keep more points in the Prot tree for survivability…to each his own. You can frown on it all you want, but I’ve used both…I like the Valiance better. The large amount of threat it generates is worth more than the few % of dodge…to me. It’s a personal choice. This is why I keep saying to use what works for you…there is more than one way to play the game. Some people want to spec deep into ret to get the threat they need..I choose to use a libram to give the boost I need instead…tomatoes tomahtoes. If there is no experimentation and people trying new things then there is no growth, no discoveries, no advancement. If you go by the numbers constantly you will never find new things that work. Besides…the only thing the numbers are looking at is threat within the spec trees…that’s just a tiny slice of the possibilites! That’s not just in wow…that’s simply LIFE…that methodology can be applied to almost everything, if you have tunnel vision…you’re selling yourself short.
And that was my problem with you insinuating that I wipe a lot, because you looked at my armory, and I “sound” like other tanks. That’s called assuming. And regardless of your reasoning, your assumptions are still wrong. That only leads me to wonder if your reasoning for specing your character based on numbers rather than trial and error is also wrong. And honestly, I’m not trying to insult you. I’m just speaking my mind and maybe trying to find common grounds in this debate so that rather than just disagreeing, we see where each other is coming from and perhaps can find a medium that can benefit everyone. Who knows…we might be able to better both of our characters by listening to eachother…and if not us, at least someone reading this may see the light in one of our arguments, or find an answer to a question they have had. I believe there is something positive yet to be gained here or I would not be wasting any time on it.
Post by
Davidson
I never said I know everything...all I've said is I know what I like, and I know how to play my character.
As for LD Heroic...if you know a tank that can 1 tank her the whole fight on heroic then that person is amazing. I explained how I was able to hold threat on my fight, well timed effective taunts...not to take all the credit, there was a couple hunters who redirected their agro to me which helped. But raids arn't meant to be won by an individual anyway right? It's always a team effort.
Yes I use the DPS libram 100% of the time…a constant 400 AP boost? Constant 120 Spell power? Extra block? Whats not to love? I guess it keeps me from needing to spec into the ret tree that much so that I can keep more points in the Prot tree for survivability…to each his own. You can frown on it all you want, but I’ve used both…I like the Valiance better. The large amount of threat it generates is worth more than the few % of dodge…to me. It’s a personal choice. This is why I keep saying to use what works for you…there is more than one way to play the game. Some people want to spec deep into ret to get the threat they need..I choose to use a libram to give the boost I need instead…tomatoes tomahtoes. If there is no experimentation and people trying new things then there is no growth, no discoveries, no advancement. If you go by the numbers constantly you will never find new things that work. Besides…the only thing the numbers are looking at is threat within the spec trees…that’s just a tiny slice of the possibilites! That’s not just in wow…that’s simply LIFE…that methodology can be applied to almost everything, if you have tunnel vision…you’re selling yourself short.
And that was my problem with you insinuating that I wipe a lot, because you looked at my armory, and I “sound” like other tanks. That’s called assuming. And regardless of your reasoning, your assumptions are still wrong. That only leads me to wonder if your reasoning for specing your character based on numbers rather than trial and error is also wrong. And honestly, I’m not trying to insult you. I’m just speaking my mind and maybe trying to find common grounds in this debate so that rather than just disagreeing, we see where each other is coming from and perhaps can find a medium that can benefit everyone. Who knows…we might be able to better both of our characters by listening to eachother…and if not us, at least someone reading this may see the light in one of our arguments, or find an answer to a question they have had. I believe there is something positive yet to be gained here or I would not be wasting any time on it.
It looks like you gear and spec for threat. You also mentioned how you died 8 or 9 times in a raid...
Like a dead DPS does no damage...a dead tank does no threat...
Post by
200565
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Decendent
Well the way I see it is everyone keeps saying "your talking about things where spec doesn't matter...but when you get to ICC endgame the spec matters".
So what your implying is that
Blizzard built the endgame ICC content to kill protadins who arn't in 53/18 spec
. I just don't believe that to be true. Because as I said, and this is obvious, the only reason to spec that deep into ret is for threat. But as everyone has also said, threat shouldn't be an issue if you know how to tank, and know the mechanics of the fight. And now we have a contradiction.
My thoughts are that once you have a solid grasp on the fight(and your class)...the rest is solely up to your survivability, how much abuse can you take? How easy is your tank to keep alive? I don't know about you, but I my character can stay alive even if the healer messes up a few times. Healers love my character because I can give them a margin of error without it resulting in a wipe...its not "Perfection or Fail!"
I used to be in a guild with another pally tank. And he was CONSTANTLY trying to tell me how to play, what glyphs to buy, what specs to run. And I always laughed at him when he told me these things, because whenever we would raid, he'd %^&*! and moan if he wasn't MT, and so he MT most of the time, at LEAST 3 times a night, he would die and I would have to pick up his slack and do both of our jobs while he waited for B-rez(Hence why I had to 1 tank so many bosses I've mentinoed already). He sacrificed survivability for TPS/DPS, and the sad part is, I still always pulled more TPS/DPS than he did.
I like using Divinity and adding the extra point in to Spiritual Attunement. Yes I know in raids, the extra point doesn't matter, but in pretty much everything else, it does. And people say divinity isn't worth it because your get overhealed as it is...but I noticed myself
staying
overhealed ALOT more with divinity than without it...I like that..makes me feel more comfortable and able to focus on the boss rather than preparing myself for the "Oh crap my heals are failing" emergency manuvre.
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong about this...but I've got this crazy hunch that most tanks haven't even given Divinity a chance or much thought at all for that matter, before they dismissed it. Have any of you tried it? Be honest with yourself. And thats the survivability I mentioned about earlier stnly...I said that with my first post of the day. Also, nobody really touched on the issue where I said the majority of endgame content protadins I've seen have 5/5 Divinity. Why no thoughts on that?
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