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Is 'too complex' a viable argument?
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Post by
Queggy
There's a verse in the Bible that says God helps those who help themselves. There is also a verse in the Bible where Jesus says, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"So why pray?
Because we need God.
The point of those verses is that we're not supposed to ask God to do everything for us. God isn't supposed to be the one that serves us. We serve Him.
Post by
150529
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229791
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Queggy
Because we need God.
The point of those verses is that we're not supposed to ask God to do everything for us. God isn't supposed to be the one that serves us. We serve Him.Yeah but why do people "thank the lord" when he clearly isn't giving anything to us (since even the bible says so). If we accept that god doesn't give us anything - then we don't need him. And isn't prayer supposed to be about
asking
begging for god to do something for you? Why pray when you know the answer?
I never said that God doesn't give us anything or that He doesn't do anything for us. Just that we shouldn't ask Him to do everything for us; especially menial, everyday tasks.
God obviously gives us things. The biggest example I can think of is sending His Son to die for us.
Post by
229791
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
Just that we shouldn't ask Him to do everything for us; especially menial, everyday tasks. Well I interpret that bible quote so that god doesn't give us anything if we ask him for it. Ergo, praying = useless.
Right... prayer doesn't change anything except strengthen your resolve, which is the point. You don't need to pray to get your message to God, since God already knows of your troubles. I guess praying is really just to bring you closer to Jesus spiritually, since it involves mentally overcoming hardship.
But yeah, I'm mostly reading the Old Testament, although I've read some of the New Testament (a lot of the stories are just the story of Jesus from different perspectives) which really seems to be a much different message than the Old Testament aside from Revelations.
Post by
MyTie
Even religious use antibiotics to cure their infections instead of praying.
There's a verse in the Bible that says God helps those who help themselves. There is also a verse in the Bible where Jesus says, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
I'm really going to differ with Queggy. Asking questions about the nature of the universe, life, existence, and thinking about the stars has nothing to do with putting God 'to the test'.It isn't scientifically sound, but it fits a certain view of the universe that relies less on logic and fact and more on belief and feeling. Depends on what's most important to you I guess.The notion that intelligent design is completely impossible scientifically is short sighted. If there were an omnipotent being, that can whisper into creation the stars, why couldn't He constuct an 'aged' universe? If you were to go back to the Garden of Eden 5 minutes after Adam were created, how old would Adam look? I bet he would look more than 5 minutes old. God would have created him at the optimal age to support his life. Why can't the universe have been created along the same rules? I'm not saying this is the way it is done, I'm saying I don't know, and I'm not about to start ruling things out using my own judgement and knowledge, which is limited.
The scientific possibility is there. Let's not be so arrogant to think we KNOW things that we don't.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Posts in this thread make me /facepalm
Post by
MyTie
Posts in this thread make me /facepalm
I'm sure you'll weave and twist them into nonsense in no time.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Posts in this thread make me /facepalm
I'm sure you'll weave and twist them into nonsense in no time.
They already are nonsense. No need for me to intervene.
Post by
MyTie
Posts in this thread make me /facepalm
I'm sure you'll weave and twist them into nonsense in no time.
They already are nonsense. No need for me to intervene.
Why on earth would you walk into the middle of a controversial thread, and start insulting the other people's views? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you just trolling? Do you want to start a flame war?
Either contribute, or get out.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Why on earth would you walk into the middle of a controversial thread, and start insulting the other people's views? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you just trolling? Do you want to start a flame war?
Either contribute, or get out.
I don't care about other people's views. That doesn't mean their ill-thought-out posts can't make me /facepalm.
Examples:
Even religious use antibiotics to cure their infections instead of praying.
Yeah but why do people "thank the lord" when he clearly isn't giving anything to us (since even the bible says so).
Post by
374287
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MyTie
I don't care about other people's views.If you did, you might be a little more respectful. That doesn't mean their ill-thought-out posts can't make me /facepalm.
I really disgreed with you in the past on an array of subjects, and sometimes you really irritate me, but I've never seen you act like this to other people before. I don't care how stupid you think the posts are, or how much they "/facepalm" you. You do yourself a huge disservice by making yourself into a jerk.
Post by
Queggy
Even religious use antibiotics to cure their infections instead of praying.
There's a verse in the Bible that says God helps those who help themselves. There is also a verse in the Bible where Jesus says, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
I'm really going to differ with Queggy. Asking questions about the nature of the universe, life, existence, and thinking about the stars has nothing to do with putting God 'to the test'.
What gave you the impression that I thought asking questions was putting God to the test? My point was that we're not supposed to pray for God to fix everything in our lives. How can we grow except through hardship? But yeah, I'm mostly reading the Old Testament, although I've read some of the New Testament (a lot of the stories are just the story of Jesus from different perspectives) which really seems to be a much different message than the Old Testament aside from Revelations.
Well, like I said, modern day Christians model their lives after Jesus, not Moses. So the laws in the Old Testament aren't the ones that we live by today.
Post by
mudfish
Co$ sucks.
desu~
Post by
229791
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
Well, like I said, modern day Christians model their lives after Jesus, not Moses. So the laws in the Old Testament aren't the ones that we live by today.
I would disagree with that. The path of the Christian as it is defined by Jesus and most of the New Testament (at least as far as I understand it) is to accept suffering, as that is the path to Christ, whereas the Old Testament seems to imply that you shouldn't suffer at the hands of a heretic. Following what Jesus says, the concept of a Christian soldier is entirely a paradox and from what I understand exactly the opposite of Jesus's message - if you're being persecuted, you let yourself be persecuted. Jesus basically says you have the right to die, whereas Moses and the Old Testament say you have the right to live, which is the more modern view Christians hold. I only wish that Christians actually followed what Jesus preached though, because I don't think the world would be as violent if people took on the almost Gandhi-like path the Jesus preaches.
Post by
Queggy
even when they do know that god's not going to give them any help since the bible says so.
Except that's not what the Bible says . . .
What it's saying is that we're not supposed to be all like, "God, I'd really like a new bike." "God I want you to give me wings to fly." Etc.
God will help those who help themselves. If we want to get a hundred on a science test, we shouldn't just pray to God to give us that 100. But if we pray to God to help us get a 100 on the test and we study diligently for the test, then he will probably help us. Not saying he will, because it might be better for us to flunk it. But that's another discussion altogether . . .Well, like I said, modern day Christians model their lives after Jesus, not Moses. So the laws in the Old Testament aren't the ones that we live by today.
I would disagree with that. The path of the Christian as it is defined by Jesus and most of the New Testament (at least as far as I understand it) is to accept suffering, as that is the path to Christ, whereas the Old Testament seems to imply that you shouldn't suffer at the hands of a heretic. Following what Jesus says, the concept of a Christian soldier is entirely a paradox and from what I understand exactly the opposite of Jesus's message - if you're being persecuted, you let yourself be persecuted. Jesus basically says you have the right to die, whereas Moses and the Old Testament say you have the right to live, which is the more modern view Christians hold. I only wish that Christians actually followed what Jesus preached though, because I don't think the world would be as violent if people took on the almost Gandhi-like path the Jesus preaches.
Well, maybe I should have said that modern day Christians are SUPPOSED to model their lives after Jesus.
:P
Post by
229791
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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