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Is horde seriously over-rated?
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Post by
Patty
Glorfindel > Legolas a thousand times.
!@#$ing yes. I played battle for Middle-Earth II, and I enjoyed the fact that they did not forget him. :3
Heck, even Elrond's sons > Legolas by a thousand times.
Post by
Skreeran
Yeah, well I like Sylvanas... :P
She's a good character, you have to admit that. A bad character wouldn't get people so up in arms.
Edit: !@#$ing yes. I played battle for Middle-Earth II, and I enjoyed the fact that they did not forget him. :3
Heck, even Elrond's sons > Legolas by a thousand times.Everyone talks about how awesome Legolas is...
He didn't kill a balrog, get killed himself, only to
come back
and save the Ringbearer, did he now?
Post by
Adamsm
Yeah, well I like Sylvanas... :P
She's a good character, you have to admit that. A bad character wouldn't get people so up in arms.Heh, I admit nothing.
Post by
Queggy
He didn't kill a balrog, get killed himself, only to
come back
and save the Ringbearer, did he now?
Meh, I'm of the opinion that those are two separate Glorifindels. I doubt Manwe and Eru would send him back.
Post by
Patty
He didn't kill a balrog, get killed himself, only to
come back
and save the Ringbearer, did he now?
Meh, I'm of the opinion that those are two separate Glorifindels. I doubt Manwe and Eru would send him back.But elves in LotR aren't named after other elves; they all seem to be uniquely named.
Edit: I think it's agreed that Glorfindel is awesome. However; the question is Gandalf or Glorfindel? Both slew a Balrog, got resurrected and saved the ring-bearer..
Post by
Queggy
He didn't kill a balrog, get killed himself, only to
come back
and save the Ringbearer, did he now?
Meh, I'm of the opinion that those are two separate Glorifindels. I doubt Manwe and Eru would send him back.But elves in LotR aren't named after other elves; they all seem to be uniquely named.
This
agrees with you, but I don't see any evidence to back up their claims.
Edit: I think it's agreed that Glorfindel is awesome. However; the question is Gandalf or Glorfindel? Both slew a Balrog, got resurrected and saved the ring-bearer..
Maia > elf.
Post by
Rankkor
then of course the people she killed while setting up the Forsaken and the Undercity. And those who died on her orders to create the Blight
so? she's killed people, inocent folk who didn't deserved to die, so did saurfang, and he changed.
why you hate her that bad that even if she changed you would still hate her?.
saurfang made a lot of families sad by killing so much, but now he tries bloody hard to redeem himself and make the world a safer place, he's the kind of person who don't deny his mistakes, rather own up to them and make up for them.
this is the reason he's treathened Garrosh with death if he leads the horde down a dark path again (a threat I hope he delivers in cataclysm if garrosh gets out of hand)
can you elaborate why the hate? she has done nothing that others haven't done before, is not like she raped a naaru then killed it, and then defecated on the corpse.
Post by
Adamsm
All of my Sylvanas hatred is in the general lore thread, I made a post about that a long while ago. And I have every right to hate Sylvanas Rank heh, just as Tauren hates Varian, Dark hates Garona and the others here on the board hate certain Lore figures.
But you can't compare Saurfang to Sylvanas; one has Honour the other doesn't, it's really as simple as that.
Post by
Rankkor
And I have every right to hate Sylvanas Rank heh, just as Tauren hates Varian, Dark hates Garona and the others here on the board hate certain Lore figures
that you do bro', i'm just curious as to why, that's all, sylvannas doesn't seem to me as she has done something nobody else has done to be despised.
also, you really can't deny she's an amazing character, even if she's a hated one, after all, arthas is also an awesome character, he's my favorite villian, I hate him, DEAR LORDS I HATE HIM, but I also think he's one well made character.
same goes for sylvannas, I have a love-hate relation with her, she's just that one character I hate to love, and love to hate. because she mixes so many HORRIBLE and AWESOME qualities in one perfect package.
But you can't compare Saurfang to Sylvanas; one has Honour the other doesn't, it's really as simple as that.
saurfang didn't had honor before, he started to gain it after he repented, sylvannas doesn't have honor now, but in the future she could repent and get it, is not likely, but it's not imposible either.
after all, she (yet) hasn't done anything that billions after her haven't done already, she's a cruel leathery hag, but even cruel leathery hags can change, and the best example of this is saurfang who underwent from TOTAL COMPLETE MONSTER to uber-noble respected dude.
Post by
Patty
Rank; Saurfang is trying to atone for his sins. Sylvanas currently is
not
. There's the key difference.
Also Queggy - it's Tolkien himself saying that Glorfindel of Gondolin is Glorfindel of Rivendell.
Glorfindel I and Glorfindel II. These were written later in life
by Tolkien
...clearly indicated that they were the same person
Post by
Queggy
Also Queggy - it's Tolkien himself saying that Glorfindel of Gondolin is Glorfindel of Rivendell.
Glorfindel I and Glorfindel II. These were written later in life
by Tolkien
...clearly indicated that they were the same person
I would think a one and two after a name would indicate two separate people.
Post by
Rankkor
Rank; Saurfang is trying to atone for his sins. Sylvanas "currently" is not. There's the key difference.
currently, that's the key word, she right now can give a rat's ass about all the evil actions she has commited, but in the future she "could" (is unlikely, but not imposible) repent her actions and seek redemption.
is tottaly ok to hate her now, she's a terrible woman, definitly NOT a friendly type, but what sets my curiosity off, is why adamns says that even if she was trying to atone he would still not like her.
simple as that, why he did forgive (I think) saurfang who commited FAR WORST crimes than sylvannas simply because he regrets his actions, but if sylvannas did the same he would not forgive her.
he does have every right to think as he does, I'm just curious as to why.
Post by
Adamsm
Rank; Saurfang is trying to atone for his sins. Sylvanas currently is not. There's the key difference.Pretty much; Sylvanas doesn't think anything she is doing is wrong. She believes because of what happened to her in the past, she has the right to kill, maim, and slaughter as she needs to create a weapon to kill off the Lich King... no matter who suffers for it. Eventually, I do intend get the old world Loremaster for Horde... but I know I'm going to hate doing the Forsaken quests or anything to do with Sylvanas.
And as I said, I don't find Sylvanas that interesting of a character; she's merely a lesser version of the Lich King or Gul'dan to my eyes.
Post by
Patty
I would think a one and two after a name would indicate two separate people.
Incarnation I, incarnation II.
Manwë restored him
I'm enjoying our little debate here. Bringing out my inner nerd. :3
Post by
Rankkor
I don't find Sylvanas that interesting of a character; she's merely a lesser version of the Lich King or Gul'dan to my eyes
fair enough. :P and as intresting as this discussion was, here I take off, my baby is crying again xD so duty calls.
see ya all folks later.
Post by
HiVolt
Come on, we all know the only reason the Horde lost the Second War was because of Gul'dan. If Doomhammer had killed him while he was in a coma, the Orcs, Amani Trolls, and Ogres may be the only denizens of the Eastern Kingdoms right now. I mean, the Alliance didn't have a single
real
victory until Gul'dan's betrayal, and had he taken less of a force with him, they may not have even had that.
Hmm, I'd argue Quel'thalas was a significant victory though...
Quel'thalas? A victory for the Alliance? I think not. Quel'thalas was near completely destroyed with the exception of Silvermoon, and had things gone properly, Zuluhed would likely have been able to break through the shield allowing the Horde to lay waste to the city as well.
The Alliance made very little headway during that battle, only allowing for a very small part of the forest to keep from being overrun by the Horde. You have to remember that about half of their forces were still either not deployed from Alterac and Stromgarde, or cleaning up with Lothar in the Hinterlands.
Quel'thalas was a Horde victory through and through.
Post by
Queggy
I would think a one and two after a name would indicate two separate people.
Incarnation I, incarnation II.
Manwë restored him
I'm enjoying our little debate here. Bringing out my inner nerd. :3
Never saw that quote.
:|
Post by
Adamsm
Come on, we all know the only reason the Horde lost the Second War was because of Gul'dan. If Doomhammer had killed him while he was in a coma, the Orcs, Amani Trolls, and Ogres may be the only denizens of the Eastern Kingdoms right now. I mean, the Alliance didn't have a single
real
victory until Gul'dan's betrayal, and had he taken less of a force with him, they may not have even had that.
Hmm, I'd argue Quel'thalas was a significant victory though...
Quel'thalas? A victory for the Alliance? I think not. Quel'thalas was near completely destroyed with the exception of Silvermoon, and had things gone properly, Zuluhed would likely have been able to break through the shield allowing the Horde to lay waste to the city as well.
The Alliance made very little headway during that battle, only allowing for a very small part of the forest to keep from being overrun by the Horde. You have to remember that about half of their forces were still either not deployed from Alterac and Stromgarde, or cleaning up with Lothar in the Hinterlands.
Quel'thalas was a
Dark
Horde victory through and through.
Fix'd heh.
Post by
Morec0
This
was always my favorite version of the Night Elf.
Sorry, couldn't find the base concept art, so I had to use a scan from the War3 manual.
Charming...
Post by
Patty
Quel'thalas? A victory for the Alliance? I think not. Quel'thalas was near completely destroyed with the exception of Silvermoon, and had things gone properly, Zuluhed would likely have been able to break through the shield allowing the Horde to lay waste to the city as well.
The Alliance made very little headway during that battle, only allowing for a very small part of the forest to keep from being overrun by the Horde. You have to remember that about half of their forces were still either not deployed from Alterac and Stromgarde, or cleaning up with Lothar in the Hinterlands.
Quel'thalas was a Horde victory through and through.
Turalyon and the Windrunners send them packing though...and the key point is that it was insuccessful in its aim; crippling Quel'thalas out of the war. Kinda backfired though, didn't it? The reinforcements from Quel'thalas then relieved the siege of Lordaeron though, which can't really be ignored.
Never saw that quote.
:|
No problemo; happens to us all. If only I was as analytical and selective in my timed history essays, I'd be getting A*s instead of A's.
:|
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