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Evil quests?
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Post by
taurenmoo812
I am going to say its evil, afaik there aren't any Alliance quests in Howling Fjord to kill Horde troops. (None that I have seen anyways, I haven't quested there much).
Oh there is heh; we attack the Four forsaken tanks that are spraying poison into the Vyrkul village, and we bomb one of the towns to destroy the vats.
Didn't know that... I must do it on my DK tonight... Course its Forsaken, need I say much else?
And yes I hate Forsaken in general. There are some good ones, but out of the Horde they are the only race I dislike.
I'm not exactly rooting for them either these days. However, doing my loremasters, your find a surprising number of emotion for forsaken from certain quest givers. They sadly get overshadowed by things like the royal apothacary society, and other ones less then credibal for the hordes act of honoring ones allies.
Post by
Monday
I am going to say its evil, afaik there aren't any Alliance quests in Howling Fjord to kill Horde troops. (None that I have seen anyways, I haven't quested there much).
Oh there is heh; we attack the Four forsaken tanks that are spraying poison into the Vyrkul village, and we bomb one of the towns to destroy the vats.
Didn't know that... I must do it on my DK tonight... Course its Forsaken, need I say much else?
And yes I hate Forsaken in general. There are some good ones, but out of the Horde they are the only race I dislike.
I'm not exactly rooting for them either these days. However, doing my loremasters, your find a surprising number of emotion for forsaken from certain quest givers. They sadly get overshadowed by things like the royal apothacary society, and other ones less then credibal for the hordes act of honoring ones allies.
Yeah, I do mainly see the Apothecary when I think of Forsaken.
But when questing for them, overall they don't really seem like a nice bunch, I just don't like their personality. Except for the ones in Hellfire Peninsula/Thrallmar. For some odd reason those guys rock.
Post by
taurenmoo812
But when questing for them, overall they don't really seem like a nice bunch, I just don't like their personality. Except for the ones in Hellfire Peninsula/Thrallmar. For some odd reason those guys rock.
I.. urm.. actully think of one quest giver in hellfire, forsaken, who poisons a draenei at falcon watch.. again, not a good example, poisoning ones capture isn't how the horde work.
Post by
Rankkor
there is a forsaken quest that actually made me cry a little bit =(
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=264
, some may say it's evil but in reality, it was the paladin who was wrong here.
that has got to be one of the most sad quests i've done in this game.
the story of the forsaken is a sad tale indeed, first invaded by the scourge, then their lives are taken, then they're made slaves against their cruel murderer, when they free themselves, the world refuses to recognize them as anything other than monsters.
keep treating someone like a monster,and eventually you get monsters, if they had been treated with a little more love and respect they would had turned out diferent from what they are today.
why? because that's what happened to the DK's, their story is the same as the forsaken, they died, were rezzed by the lich king, were slaves, then freed, as monsters, but the world didn't turned their backs on them, they had the suport of tirion, and were at least tolerated among their kin, were given a place of honor among their compatriots, and where honored by their king/warchief.
rather than being treated as monsters, they were treated as heroes, and this in turn made them something VERY diferent to the forsaken.
if only the forsaken had someone to vouch for them when they were fresh out of slavery (this was before the founding of the RAS; and the experiments and the whole MUAHAHHHA evil scientist theme)
Post by
Adamsm
But when questing for them, overall they don't really seem like a nice bunch, I just don't like their personality. Except for the ones in Hellfire Peninsula/Thrallmar. For some odd reason those guys rock.
I.. urm.. actully think of one quest giver in hellfire, forsaken, who poisons a draenei at falcon watch.. again, not a good example, poisoning ones capture isn't how the horde work.
It is when your a Forsaken... as proved by multiple other quests heh.
Post by
Monday
But when questing for them, overall they don't really seem like a nice bunch, I just don't like their personality. Except for the ones in Hellfire Peninsula/Thrallmar. For some odd reason those guys rock.
I.. urm.. actully think of one quest giver in hellfire, forsaken, who poisons a draenei at falcon watch.. again, not a good example, poisoning ones capture isn't how the horde work.
/shrug. Oh well, I still like them.
Edit: Its just one of those things, where you like something and you have no idea why, you just do.
Post by
Rankkor
But when questing for them, overall they don't really seem like a nice bunch, I just don't like their personality. Except for the ones in Hellfire Peninsula/Thrallmar. For some odd reason those guys rock.
I.. urm.. actully think of one quest giver in hellfire, forsaken, who poisons a draenei at falcon watch.. again, not a good example, poisoning ones capture isn't how the horde work.
/shrug. Oh well, I still like them.
Edit: Its just one of those things, where you like something and you have no idea why, you just do.
I suffer this sindrome with the draenei, dunno why, they are a mary sue race.........
they are a prefect holier than thou race that forgives everyone, refuses to use insults or anything gray, they are every single one down to the last man and woman lawfull good, and have no depth to their society, no shades of gray, nothing remarkable, they are prefect do-gooders, and yet I LOOVE THEM
I REALLY DO, THEY ARE AWESOME!.
starting by velen, all the way to nobundo, going all the way to the lowest quest-givers.
here's to hope they get more loving in cataclysm
Post by
Adamsm
Prove that he started the fight. I've done this argument before. We don't know who started it.
Whats there to prove? We all know that the Alliance ships were ambushed. Not much else to say.
It's war; that's how you win by getting the first strike and over whelming your opponents.
Post by
Skreeran
I like the idea of the Forsaken. I like the idea of a race being given the short end of the stick, and then hunted on top of that by their own families. I like the idea of undead that have given everything to be free from slavery, only to be systematically killed by humans who don't understand. I like the idea of undead that just want to be left alone in their misery, but won't even be granted that.
Unfortunately, this does not describe the Forsaken at large. However, I will continue to defend them, because, like Trevor, Leonid, and Dan Golthas, I am sure that ones like I have described
do
exist, and I will not let them be killed just because of what they are.
Edit:
Says commen sence.Explain. Humour me, please.
That would be like a Jew joining the Nazis: Ashelm would have been partnering with everything he hates, not something everyone does. His choice is not suprising.Actually, it's more like a Confederate Brigadier being offered a position as a Union General. He's being offered a powerful position in one of the most powerful armies on Azeroth, and he doesn't even consider it. Lots of people (Baron Rivendare, Dar'khan Drathir, Kel'thuzad, etc.) have been offered similar offers and accepted. Anselm can be applauded for that.
Whats there to prove? We all know that the Alliance ships were ambushed. Not much else to say.How do we know? I've done my research. We don't know who started it.
Post by
Orranis
Prove that he started the fight. I've done this argument before. We don't know who started it.
Whats there to prove? We all know that the Alliance ships were ambushed. Not much else to say.
It's war; that's how you win by getting the first strike and over whelming your opponents.
Yes. Actually, it's my belief that honor is completely backwards. If you really and truly believe in what your fighting for, you should have no qualms doing underhand trickery to get what you believe right. If you do not truly believe in what your fighting for, you should not fight for it. Your not trying to prove something to anyone, that's a duel. There you can have honor. But in war, where you fight for right, the greater good should be placed far before you looking like an ass.
Post by
Orranis
I like the idea of the Forsaken. I like the idea of a race being given the short end of the stick, and then hunted on top of that by their own families. I like the idea of undead that have given everything to be free from slavery, only to be systematically killed by humans who don't understand. I like the idea of undead that just want to be left alone in their misery, but won't even be granted that.
Unfortunately, this does not describe the Forsaken at large. However, I will continue to defend them, because, like Trevor, Leonid, and Dan Golthas, I am sure that ones like I have described
do
exist, and I will not let them be killed just because of what they are.
QFT. Actually, as soon as I finish Time of Death I'll be making a Fan Fic that has to do with the others...
Post by
Rankkor
aww addamns pls tell me what'cha think of the quest I posted, aint it a sad one?
and what I said about what could had happened if forsaken had been treated diferently, after all, the knights of the ebon blade have the same background of the forsaken, but they did got a nice treatment, and today they are honored as heroes, gloomy ones but heroes nonetheless.
if the forsaken hand't been treated as monsters you think perhaps they woudn't had become monsters?
(PD: @darkton: I have no idea what u've posted, dunno if it's more inflamatory content against me, and I don't care, as I said I don't read your posts anymore, if u're not gonna be civil, then you and I have nothing else to talk about, so please, say whatever you wish for, funden's advice is the one I'm taking, I just see the blueish skull, and I ignore whatever is in there, because whatever it's in there, CAN'T be a good thing.)
Post by
Monday
Prove that he started the fight. I've done this argument before. We don't know who started it.
Whats there to prove? We all know that the Alliance ships were ambushed. Not much else to say.
It's war; that's how you win by getting the first strike and over whelming your opponents.
Yes. Actually, it's my belief that honor is completely backwards. If you really and truly believe in what your fighting for, you should have no qualms doing underhand trickery to get what you believe right. If you do not truly believe in what your fighting for, you should not fight for it. Your not trying to prove something to anyone, that's a duel. There you can have honor. But in war, where you fight for right, the greater good should be placed far before you looking like an ass.
The ends justify the means right? Sounds Machiavellian.
Edit: Yeah Rank, it was insults, nothing more.
Post by
Adamsm
aww addamns pls tell me what'cha think of the quest I posted, aint it a sad one?
and what I said about what could had happened if forsaken had been treated diferently, after all, the knights of the ebon blade have the same background of the forsaken, but they did got a nice treatment, and today they are honored as heroes, gloomy ones but heroes nonetheless.
if the forsaken hand't been treated as monsters you think perhaps they woudn't had become monsters?I hate the Forsaken, I do; I'll admit there are 'good' ones out there, but most of them are in lockstep behind their Queen and her desire to wipe out the Scourge and anyone else they see as an enemy. The biggest reason they are what they are is because of Sylvanas; the good ones prove it as they flee the city as soon as possible instead of remaining there under her control.
Had Sylvanas never gotten her talons into them, it's possible the forsaken would have found a way to reach out to Stormwind(as the Lordaeron survivors only saw Scourge) they might not have ended up as they did... but she did, and she made sure to find the most vicious and ruthless among them to put into place as her hands, eyes and ears.
Yes, some of them betrayed her... but there are still many who agree with her beliefs and haven't changed since the Wrathgate beyond being watched by the Horde(which again, should have been there from the start).
Post by
Skreeran
Well, honor has it's place. If you can gain an advantage by dropping fire on their civilians, I wouldn't say that that makes it permissible. Likewise, honor in defeat is important. If the Allied forces had treated the defeated Germans like people, rather than just a defeated enemy that needed to be punished, World War II might not have happened.
Post by
Rankkor
The ends justify the means right? Sounds Machiavellian.
humm that is a dangerous position to take, because that's what arthas did to stop the plage and see what that got him.
I think one has to be willing to draw a line of how far are they willing to go to protect themselves..........
In my opinion that line is civilians, no matter what nothing justifies killing directly or indirectly the civilians.
this also goes to non-combatants, if an enemy has surrendered their weapons, the honorable thing to do is to spare their lives.
and the horde does this, in borean tundra a lot of alliance soldiers laid down their weapons and surrendered, and the horde showed both compation and honor by sparing their lives, and even returning them to their compatriots.
this is the kind of chivalry that I expect in war, I'm sure it was saurfang the reason those non-combatants were spared, because we've seen how low garrosh will sink to reduce the numbers of the alliance =(.
Edit: Yeah Rank, it was insults, nothing more.
I figured as much, but I still haven't readed it, and I won't because nothing good will happen if I do, if he posts, I'll just pretend he didn't and continue foward.
Post by
Monday
It didn't do much for their image to use abominations and Dreadlords either...
Edit: I was just replying to Face's post Rank, though I like your post.
Post by
Adamsm
The ends justify the means right? Sounds Machiavellian.
humm that is a dangerous position to take, because that's what arthas did to stop the plage and see what that got him.
I think one has to be willing to draw a line of how far are they willing to go to protect themselves..........
In my opinion that line is civilians, no matter what nothing justifies killing directly or indirectly the civilians.
this also goes to non-combatants, if an enemy has surrendered their weapons, the honorable thing to do is to spare their lives.
and the horde does this, in borean tundra a lot of alliance soldiers laid down their weapons and surrendered, and the horde showed both compation and honor by sparing their lives, and even returning them to their compatriots.
this is the kind of chivalry that I expect in war, I'm sure it was saurfang the reason those non-combatants were spared, because we've seen how low garrosh will sink to reduce the numbers of the alliance =(.Right... but those are Orcs, not Forsaken; Forsaken have already crossed the line that the other Horde races won't, and you see it in the Hillsbrad quests. 'The Ends Justify the Means' is how Sylvanas runs her race and her armies; that's why she allied with a Dreadlord, that's why she sent messengers to the Horde to get her people into it, that's why she helped the Blood Elves reclaim the Sunwell's energy source; it was all about setting herself up so that she could be in a position to strike against her enemies.
Post by
Orranis
Well, honor has it's place. If you can gain an advantage by dropping fire on their civilians, I wouldn't say that that makes it permissible. Likewise, honor in defeat is important. If the Allied forces had treated the defeated Germans like people, rather than just a defeated enemy that needed to be punished, World War II might not have happened.
It depends on what you're goal was. In WW II they were trying to protect innocent people from dictatorships and fascism, thus bombing civilians (Which I disagree with) was backwards. I agree with you, however that example is not during war, it's post war, so does not hold up.
Edit: And to you Rankkor, that's post conflict with those soldiers.
Post by
Rankkor
The ends justify the means right? Sounds Machiavellian.
humm that is a dangerous position to take, because that's what arthas did to stop the plage and see what that got him.
I think one has to be willing to draw a line of how far are they willing to go to protect themselves..........
In my opinion that line is civilians, no matter what nothing justifies killing directly or indirectly the civilians.
this also goes to non-combatants, if an enemy has surrendered their weapons, the honorable thing to do is to spare their lives.
and the horde does this, in borean tundra a lot of alliance soldiers laid down their weapons and surrendered, and the horde showed both compation and honor by sparing their lives, and even returning them to their compatriots.
this is the kind of chivalry that I expect in war, I'm sure it was saurfang the reason those non-combatants were spared, because we've seen how low garrosh will sink to reduce the numbers of the alliance =(.Right... but those are Orcs, not Forsaken; Forsaken have already crossed the line that the other Horde races won't, and you see it in the Hillsbrad quests. 'The Ends Justify the Means' is how Sylvanas runs her race and her armies; that's why she allied with a Dreadlord, that's why she sent messengers to the Horde to get her people into it, that's why she helped the Blood Elves reclaim the Sunwell's energy source; it was all about setting herself up so that she could be in a position to strike against her enemies.
you know what addams? I can't deny that, I must say sylvannas is really slipping down and down in my eyes...............
I still pity her because she used to be a great hero, just as I pitied arthas who used to be a nice guy but honest to god, sylvannas is really working her b-hind to make sure we hate her.
I wonder if on cata she's gonna keep this road....... or change?( bah is very unlikely she changes willingly, though I hear a sword at your throat works wonders on persuation)
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