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10.2.5
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Evil quests?
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Post by
Monday
It is as I told you. They were not merely idle words spoken in a fit of anger.
Time and again, the
Germans
have demonstrated their disdain for everything we hold dear and holy. They must pay with their lives for their transgressions against
God
.
All of them.
Just imagine a world free of their stain, <name>. Envision the joy our children will know. Think of the reverence your descendants will have for your memory, knowing they owe their happiness to you.
Now go, and make that vision a reality!
That went too far.
Post by
Rankkor
And I still stand by my quote that both are bags.
yup, they are, given than both show up (but not participate) in the gunship battle, I had hoped they died (both of them, regardless of wich version of ICC u're doing).
that way we don't see these 2 extremely evil characters in cataclysm.
but that wasn't the case :(
pity, imagine a scripted event like this....
(horde version)
after the skyreaver loses the battle:
Muradin Bronzebeard yells: Captain Bartlett, get us out of here! We're taken too much damage to stay afloat!
Justin: NOO WE WILL NOT RETREAT the filthy horde must DIE, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!.
TURN THIS SHIP ARROUND, I'm the captain, that's an order.
Muradin: stand down captain, this ship is badly damaged, we're going to die if we stay.
Justin: as long as we kill the wretched horde I will gladly sacrifice every sin------ (bang, chest pierced by an axe trown by a kor'krom axe-trower, he falls off the cliff of the ship.)
Alliance version:
after the ogrim's hammer loses the fight:
High Overlord Saurfang yells: Damage control! Put those fires out! You haven't seen the last of the Horde!
Korn: NO we must not retreat, those weaklings must DIE. keep this ship afloat or I will have your heads personally.
Saurfang: Korn open your eyes, this ship will sink if we remain here, I will not sacrifice the lives of this crew just to sate your bloodthirst.
Korn: YOU DARE TO BETRAY THE ORDERS OF OVERLORD HELLSCREAM? he ordered every single alliance dog DEAD. if you lack the guts to see to it yourself then I will-------(bang, head-shot by a skyreaver sharpshooter, he falls off the ship)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would had LOVED to see that, both of these scoundrels bitting the gutter.
Post by
Skreeran
It is as I told you. They were not merely idle words spoken in a fit of anger.
Time and again, the
Germans
have demonstrated their disdain for everything we hold dear and holy. They must pay with their lives for their transgressions against
God
.
All of them.
Just imagine a world free of their stain, <name>. Envision the joy our children will know. Think of the reverence your descendants will have for your memory, knowing they owe their happiness to you.
Now go, and make that vision a reality!
That went too far.How so? In World War 2, the German forces killed a great deal of Allied troops, but I would not say that it would be right to kill every last one of them.
Post by
Rankkor
Really? I didn't know that Justin killied children-in cold blood-out of the blue. Not saying he is right or wrong, but he is diffenitly understandable.
justin hasn't killed any children, but he wishes to doit, worst, he wishes YOU to doit, that makes him evil.
and as for the second part of your post
Have you ever gotten in a fight with someone and though, "I'm going to kill that guy"? Did you ever mean it? Did you ever do it?
saying something you don't mean in a fit of rage is understandable, most of the time, threats made under rage can't be taken for real, because once the fury is gone, gone is also your "desire" to kill.
but justin didn't said it on a fit of rage.
he says so himself.
It is as I told you. They were not merely idle words spoken in a fit of anger.
he didn't said it just for anger, or frustration, he was dead-on serious about it.
Post by
Monday
It is as I told you. They were not merely idle words spoken in a fit of anger.
Time and again, the
Germans
have demonstrated their disdain for everything we hold dear and holy. They must pay with their lives for their transgressions against
God
.
All of them.
Just imagine a world free of their stain, <name>. Envision the joy our children will know. Think of the reverence your descendants will have for your memory, knowing they owe their happiness to you.
Now go, and make that vision a reality!
That went too far.How so? In World War 2, the German forces killed a great deal of Allied troops, but I would not say that it would be right to kill every last one of them.
Because that is real life, I know people who were involved in it, while this is an EFFING VIDEO GAME.
And they put aside their anger and hate, and one of the best friends of the veteran I know is a German guy.
Post by
Skreeran
Because that is real life, I know people who were involved in it, while this is an EFFING VIDEO GAME.
And they put aside their anger and hate, and one of the best friends of the veteran I know is a German guy.I know that.
That's what I'm saying. Hitler and most of the Nazis were certainly "evil," not all of the Germans were, and genocide against the Germans cannot be justified.
While the World of Warcraft is indeed a video game, an analogy of a real life event is a powerful tool to change opinions. Because while it is true that Azeroth is fictional, when we discuss it, we are discussing it within the canon as if it were real. A real life person dying is certainly of more consequence than a fictional person dying, but you cannot say that the two are unrelated.
All fiction is inspired in some way or another by real life. That's just how the human mind works. If we wish to discuss it seriously, we must be prepared to treat it seriously. If I read that the Horde or Alliance has killed an entire village of people, it does not have the same real life consequences as a real life incident of similar nature would have, but it should not be dismissed as "just fiction" either.
I see many parallels between the orcs and the Nazis, and I say that in the same manner that the genocide against the german people cannot be justified, neither can genocide against the orcs.
Post by
Monday
Is suppose that's true, but German stuff really gets me, and I'm not even German.
I want to compare the Horde to Japan during WWII, as they came and invaded U.S. territory without provocation (afaik).
I think I've made a logic flaw somewhere, I just can't think of what.
Post by
Skreeran
Is suppose that's true, but German stuff really gets me, and I'm not even German.
I want to compare the Horde to Japan during WWII, as they came and invaded U.S. territory without provocation (afaik).
I think I've made a logic flaw somewhere, I just can't think of what.Well, the Germans invaded Austria, Hungary and Poland without provocation as well.
Don't get me wrong, I like Germany and the Germans as well. I particularly liked how in the movie Inglorious Basterds, there were the Jew slaughtering Nazis as we typically know them, but there were also kind german soldiers, and that german sergeant who had just become a father, etc.
Likewise, with the Horde, you could say that while there are those who did and still do kill Alliance citizens without provocation, and many human and draenei children were killed by the evil of the Old Horde.
Does that give the Alliance to retaliatory action in the same manner? I do not blame the soldier that killed Orgrim Doomhammer. I like Orgrim, but the Alliance did no wrong in killing him. For an Alliance soldier to kill a Horde soldier is part of war. If that Horde soldier participated in the Old Wars, then justice is doubly served. However, there is nothing that the Alliance can say to justify the murder of children. Likewise with the Horde. The Old Horde did murder children, and thus I say that the death of one who did so is justice. Even Varok Saurfang. If a Draenei who lost his family to the Old Horde killed Varok Saurfang, I would be sad that such a good orc died, but I would not condemn the Draenei.
If the same Draenei butchered a family of orcs out in the Barrens, I would feel differently.
Post by
Monday
Is suppose that's true, but German stuff really gets me, and I'm not even German.
I want to compare the Horde to Japan during WWII, as they came and invaded U.S. territory without provocation (afaik).
I think I've made a logic flaw somewhere, I just can't think of what.Well, the Germans invaded Austria, Hungary and Poland without provocation as well.
Don't get me wrong, I like Germany and the Germans as well. I particularly liked how in the movie Inglorious Basterds, there were the Jew slaughtering Nazis as we typically know them, but there were also kind german soldiers, and that german sergeant who had just become a father, etc.
Likewise, with the Horde, you could say that while there are those who did and still do kill Alliance citizens without provocation, and many human and draenei children were killed by the evil of the Old Horde.
Does that give the Alliance to retaliatory action in the same manner? I do not blame the soldier that killed Orgrim Doomhammer. I like Orgrim, but the Alliance did no wrong in killing him. For an Alliance soldier to kill a Horde soldier is part of war. If that Horde soldier participated in the Old Wars, then justice is doubly served. However, there is nothing that the Alliance can say to justify the murder of children. Likewise with the Horde. The Old Horde did murder children, and thus I say that the death of one who did so is justice. Even Varok Saurfang. If a Draenei who lost his family to the Old Horde killed Varok Saurfang, I would be sad that such a good orc died, but I would not condemn the Draenei.
If the same Draenei butchered a family of orcs out in the Barrens, I would feel differently.
Course a Draenei wouldn't do that =P
But yes I get your reasoning. It would be the same if the Dwarves went out and slaughtered some of the troll children in Dun Morogh. I guess that is why I dislike children's week in WoW. While you are doing some nice stuff for the orphans, it is nothing compared to the sadness that has come upon them from the death of their parents, whether human orc, dwarf or tauren, it is all the same. (And no didn't leave the others out because thye are different, I was just to lazy to write them all in)).
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Goddammit people can't you use something else than WW2 for a change? Or at the very least change the location.
I hear the rape of Nanking hasn't been abused by Internet denizens yet.Well, it's very easy to use, for one thing.
Orcs are quite similar in nature to the German forces in World War 2. Misguided by a charismatic leader, they were driven to war and genocide with another people, finally being defeated and feeling remorse and shame for their previous actions. (And that last part is something of a generalization. Some orcs do not feel bad about the draenei, and I'm sure that some germans do not feel guilt about the Holocaust, but I'm fairly certain within my limited knowledge that most do.)
While there are many other conflicts that can be used, World War 2 is a fairly accessible metaphor to everyone. I know what the Rape of Nanking was, but does it help my point at all if the person I'm debating does not?
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
344679
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Oh yeah thechamp45, theres that same old song 'we're alliance, we're justified in hating the horde'. Like we haven't heard that argument used for a certain captain of the chin squad.
Post by
Adamsm
Oh yeah thechamp45, theres that same old song 'we're alliance, we're justified in hating the horde'. Like we haven't heard that argument used for a certain captain of the chin squad.
Or any number of Horde.
Post by
Skreeran
As I said before, what the Horde did at the Broken Front, or ever did against the Alliance ever, does not warrant genocide. Killing prisoners, unarmed enemies, women, and children, is simply not tolerable.
While this may have been acceptable throughout most of man's history, it is not so anymore, not now that we have better alternatives. And since Warcraft's universe and overall attitude is more toned toward modern times than medieval, I would wager they have better and more acceptable ways of handling things.
Post by
Eledhwen
Holy crap! Talk about thread drift! *rolls eyes*
As far as evil quests go. How about when you roll a Death Knight? Talk about evil...I mean, I don't like the Scarlet Crusade but to just go out and slaughter farmers. How evil does it get?
Quests I recall doing with my Horde characters...
My Undead Mage at Tarren Mill was sent off to kill the Human farmers and poison an innocent dog.
There is the quest my Belf Warlock did for the trainer in Undercity where she had to kill and retrieve the hearts of two good men. As I recall, one was helping the refugees at the wall at Gilneas and the other was searching for his wife. After that quest she was so disgusted with the Forsaken that she went overseas to the Barrens to quest. ;)
There's one quest in the Swamp of Sorrows where a Blood Elf sends you to poison the food of the Lost Ones in the Swamp so that they will be cursed. (Personally, I hate those mob so I was happy to do this).
Recently in Stonethalon my Orc Shaman was asked to help a Troll witch doctor torture three Night Elves he had as captives in a cave. My Orc is of "good alignment" so he refused to do this and went on to Sun Rock Retreat where this nefarious looking Blood Elf asked him to go kill the children of Cenarius because they were "blocking" her magic. He refused to do this as well, saying he had no personal quarrel with the Night Elves.
Seems the Horde has it over the Alliance when it comes to "evil" quests. My Paladin was rather enraged by the Broken Front and had no problem shooting down Horde Dragonhawks and avenging her fallen comrades but she wouldn't kill innocent civilians. Same with my Blood Elf. She thinks the whole Alliance/Horde conflict is silly and that Garrosh should be sent to be Overlord of the Swamp of Sorrows because that's all he's fit for. When she refused to kill the civilians she was sent to the Argent Tournament as punishment. ;)
Yes, I take my RP seriously. Why the heck not?
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Btw Skreeran, I turned back a little in this thread, and noticed you said you think Krom is less a bad guy because like Garrosh, you don't "take him seriously".
I found that funny because Garrosh is going to rule the Horde and execute anyone who won't obey him...
Same goes for Krom because he started an entire skimrish in Icecrown. He isnt just talking, he is taking action.A. Garrosh isn't going to "execute anyone who won't obey him."
B. Krom did not instigate the Broken Front. It was done by those under him without his knowing, and he merely threw in his support after the fact.
C. I don't take him seriously on his threats of genocide, mainly because he's shouting and yelling, which lots of orcs have been doing since the start of WoW. Justin, on the other hand, is a lot more calm and serious sounding when he talks.
Post by
Patty
I know what the Rape of Nan
k
jing was, but does it help my point at all if the person I'm debating does not?
Had to fix it.
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