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Does Arthas truely deserve redemption?
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Post by
taurenmoo812
As many have now seen the fate of the lich king, its easy to get an idea of what most think of it. Some loved the ending, some hated it, some wanted to see more from other characters.
When talking to my guild mates about it, an argument sprung up between my best friend, and another guildie whos a big lore geek himself. They talked about how my friend saw it that arthas wasn't truely evil after all, well the other guildie, he put it down to just that, that all that happened with the lich king was based on Arthas's own persona coming through as the lich king, and that he was responsible for it all.
Now, as the final scene with Arthas, he is given a form of redemption, with in regards to his father, despite being the one who killed him, Arthas turned into daddys boy, so despite him dying with only darkness, he got to find redemption with his father.
To my own opinion, this was suger coating it more then he deserved. Just some pointers of all the evil and damming things causes because of his actions.
- The death of his own people in startholme
- The alliance soldiers who died following him on his blinded crusade
- The dead scar and murder of countless elves in quel'thalas
- The damnation of lordearon and the innocent people who became mindless undead
- The murder of his father
- The murder of Uther the lightbringer (and possibily the knights of the silver hand)
- The murder and damnation of Dranosh Saurfang, and near attempted damnation of Bolvar
And the countless innocent people who were murdered by him and his followers, raised as undead minion, and whos souls will never find peace of redemption because of it.
I wondered if all this was down to what the lich king made him do. But I've come to the conclusion that the lich king is simply the driving force behind this, and that the 'lich king' is reflected in he who wears the crown, like a duel personality based on who has that power. I could be wrong, but the suger coated ending was to nice given all the crap he caused, and how unlike him, the thousends of souls he dammed won't find that kind of last redemption.
Post by
Adamsm
Sums it up pretty good.
Beyond that no: Arthas lost his own soul when he picked up Frostmourne, he willing walked down the road to damnation with his head held high and a smile on his cracked and broken lips.
Post by
Monday
The Lich King was the one who took his fervor and strength, which could have been used for righteousness, along with his arrogance and brashness and twisted them, turning him evil. He used the facade of saving his people to destroy them. So yes I believe he does deserve redemption, at least partly, since frostmourne shattered his sanity and stole his soul, and the final step to becoming Lich King showed that he was totally in the thrall of the Lich King.
Almost none of these were his fault.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Sums it up pretty good.
Beyond that no: Arthas lost his own soul when he picked up Frostmourne, he willing walked down the road to damnation with his head held high and a smile on his cracked and broken lips.
That, however, doesn't mean he will or will not get redeemed.
Nothing to redeem; he says so when he dies: He's going into the Dark..... doesn't sound like a redemption to me. If they were going to redeem him, they would have gone the whole 10 yards and had the Terenas ghost lift up the soul of Arthas, which would suddenly be in his paladin gear, and the two walk off, fading away.... like most of the cliche things heh.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Just going off topic a moment here. But doesn't it seem instead of spending the vast wealth they make on warcraft to make a brilliant cinematic, they would sooner opt for ingame graphics to be tweaked now to make a movie. Starting to see more and more cheap ploys by blizzard.
Post by
Skreeran
Nope. Not redeemable.
At least no more than Darth Vader.
Oh wait...
&*!@ing Star Wars... -_-
HE BLEW UP A PEACEFUL PLANET AND KILLED THE YOUNGLINGS!
Post by
Orranis
- The death of his own people in startholme
Strathholme was very interesting. Arthas was pitted between letting the citizens become undead and battling them as mindless wretches on the battlefield, or giving them a merciful death at his hands. I agree with his decision, and admire him for having the strength of will to carry it out.
- The alliance soldiers who died following him on his blinded crusade
If you mean the ones who had been trapped by Arthas burning the boats, then blaming the mercenaries and having them killed, I agree with you. He disobeyed orders, killed innocents twice over, and all for his own vengeance. - The dead scar and murder of countless elves in quel'thalas
- The damnation of lordearon and the innocent people who became mindless undead
As much as I love and feel for the Forsaken, Arthas cant really be blamed here because he had already gotten his soul om nom nomed. While it was his fault, it wasn't his doing. Same to everything after this.
- The murder of his father
- The murder of Uther the lightbringer (and possibily the knights of the silver hand)
- The murder and damnation of Dranosh Saurfang, and near attempted damnation of Bolvar
All in all, yes. If anyone can be considered evil, he would be one of them. He did what he thought was best for his people, but did not look at the consequences and doomed them all. He should not be redeemed.
Post by
Morec0
Nope. Not redeemable.
At least no more than Darth Vader.
Oh wait...
&*!@ing Star Wars... -_-
HE BLEW UP A PEACEFUL PLANET AND KILLED THE YOUNGLINGS!
Skree makes a point. Of course Vader did kill the Emperor at the end, Arthas, on the otherhand, didn't do anything similar.
Still, Arthas' dead made me feel sad for him. His last words - although not the best choice for a king of the dead - were truely depressing.
Post by
Adamsm
As much as I love and feel for the Forsaken, Arthas cant really be blamed here because he had already gotten his soul om nom nomed. While it was his fault, it wasn't his doing. Same to everything after this.Arthas hadn't lost all of his soul by that point, Frostmourne was merely taking bites out of his soul with each 'big' kill; Muradin, Terenas, Sylvanas and so on.
Post by
Patty
Marudin.
Muradin
wasn't killed. ;D
Post by
Adamsm
Marudin.
Muradin
wasn't killed. ;D
No, but he did get his memories/life stolen by the Blade......
Post by
Patty
No, but he did get his memories/life stolen by the Blade......
This is true, although he has ended up as king of the...storm-something-or-other.
Post by
Adamsm
No, but he did get his memories/life stolen by the Blade......
This is true, although he has ended up as king of the...storm-something-or-other.
The Frostborn.... which is good; he never would have ended up as King of Ironforge after all heh.
Post by
Patty
The Frostborn....I was
very
close! which is good; he never would have ended up as King of Ironforge after all heh.Indeed, so it could be argued that some of Arthas' 'bad' actions had 'good' consequences.
Post by
Adamsm
which is good; he never would have ended up as King of Ironforge after all heh.Indeed, so it could be argued that some of Arthas' 'bad' actions had 'good' consequences.
Yes well... in the same vein; without Arthas, Sylvanas would still be alive, the Forsaken would never have been formed, and The Blight never used heh. There are some good things that came from the Lich King; the 3rd generation Death Knights, return of the Ashbringer, the addition of the Taunka and Frostborn to the Horde and Alliance.... but still, too much evil heh.
Post by
313143
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Yes well... in the same vein; without Arthas, Sylvanas would still be alive, the Forsaken would never have been formed, and The Blight never used heh. There are some good things that came from the Lich King; the 3rd generation Death Knights, return of the Ashbringer, the addition of the Taunka and Frostborn to the Horde and Alliance.... but still, too much evil heh.
I know, but also within the same vein...If the Scourge/Her ex weren't ravaging Lordaeron - Jaina may have slacked a little on getting people out of Lordaeron and perhaps Hyjal would have been lost. I'm not saying that everything 'Arthas' has done is good - But there have been positive repercussions of his nefarious actions.
Post by
Adamsm
Yes 3rd Generation; 1st was Gul'dan, 2nd was Arthas and his Deathknights, 3rd is the player ones, go check on the wowwiki page about them.
I know, but also within the same vein...If the Scourge/Her ex weren't ravaging Lordaeron - Jaina may have slacked a little on getting people out of Lordaeron and perhaps Hyjal would have been lost. I'm not saying that everything 'Arthas' has done is good - But there have been positive repercussions of his nefarious actions.If Hyjal had actually occurred without the Scourge heh.
Post by
barthem
wel, it seems me the culling of stratholme was his done, he was something like Maiev Shadowsong who only wanted vengeance for her people and would reach her goal without thinking about what could happen.
he took up frostmourne when in a helpless situation(under attack by numberless undead from mal'gannis) and when he did it he lost his mind to the wispers of the lich king and afther some time his soul.
he still heeded the light, so that mains that he tought what he was doing what the right thing.
i dont think the arthas that helped villagers getting there belongings back from thieves, defending city's agains the undead and safes little boy's would have done that
to make a long story short, he didnt had a choose since the good part of arthas was locked within frostmourne when all of that happened
soz for bad grammar
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