This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Does Arthas truely deserve redemption?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
takakenji
i kind of felt sorry for him when he said "only darkness awaits me" when he died.
and, if you really think about it, arthas didn't ever want to become this.
the WHOLE time up untill he took frostmourne he was just thinking what was best for his people. unfortunately, upon taking frostmourne, he became insane and then that WASN'T his own choice.
i think he should deserve redemption
Post by
taurenmoo812
Aye, he's suffering the same thing as the souls in Frostmourne now that the blade is damaged; final death, soul death, and no chance for traveling to whatever Heaven is in Azeroth.
Adam you got as much proof that the souls that were trapped in frostmourne ended that way as you have a way to predict what I had for dinner today. I saw it that, as king terenas said in the halls of reflection, that the souls in frostmourne cry out for release.
The sword is shattered, and thus I more then believe the souls trapped in it were released.
I'm merely going on what I know of weapons like Frostmourne; unless their being used by a horrible writer, they rarely if ever actually get free from the weapon. You have no proof that they are released either so watch what your throwing around..... and for the last Frelling Time; My Name is Adams, not Adam, jesu christo.
I'm going on what I saw in the final cinematic. The frostmourne broken, king terenas's soul there holding Arthas as he dies, and then he and all the other souls there were held in the sword, instead of being sucked back into it, vanish like they were passing on.
Through all the things down concerning the lich king and the dammed souls he's corrupted, there needs to be some resolve at the least.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm going on what I saw in the final cinematic. The frostmourne broken, king terenas's soul there holding Arthas as he dies, and then he and all the other souls there were held in the sword, instead of being sucked back into it, vanish like they were passing on.
Through all the things down concerning the lich king and the dammed souls he's corrupted, there needs to be some resolve at the least.
There is: There Damned souls, who can't travel on.
Post by
GVHB
Even if they disappeared or were realeased from Frostmourne, the souls are gone for good. They will never return. And for Arthas being redeemed, he died as Arthas; the blue glow of his eyes disappeared. If he was redeemed, it wasn't the classic redemption of tranforming into a being of pure light. What I this is that he soul was thrown to oblivion. In a way of saying it, he wasn't sent to hell to be tortured for his sins nor ascended to heaven.
If he was redeemed, does he deserve it? Personaly I think he don't. He was all righteousness like the other paladins as a human so he was completely turned to the opossite by the Lich King. His own arrogance made him wipe out Stratholme, travel to Northrend, betray the mercenaries, and take frostmourne. Up to this point he wasn't in mental connection to the Lich King so he wasn't controlling Arthas' will.
Post by
barthem
Aye, he's suffering the same thing as the souls in Frostmourne now that the blade is damaged; final death, soul death, and no chance for traveling to whatever Heaven is in Azeroth.
Adam you got as much proof that the souls that were trapped in frostmourne ended that way as you have a way to predict what I had for dinner today. I saw it that, as king terenas said in the halls of reflection, that the souls in frostmourne cry out for release.
The sword is shattered, and thus I more then believe the souls trapped in it were released.
I'm merely going on what I know of weapons like Frostmourne; unless their being used by a horrible writer, they rarely if ever actually get free from the weapon. You have no proof that they are released either so watch what your throwing around..... and for the last Frelling Time; My Name is Adams, not Adam, jesu christo.
SPOILER
: the runeblade you care is forged by the lichking to steal souls, your your was one of the first to claim it
wel since
tichoditatata
that dreadlord sayt it was forged to steal souls and we saw terenas menethil 2's soul trapped inside frostmourne so it can might be that frostmourne it absorps every soul of the victim slaint by frostnourne
wel frostmourne has killed thousend elve,s humans, and paladins so i gues it hold alot souls + the fact that in the
lichking fight
a few thousend souls come out of frostmourne afther tirion fording has shatteret it, and keep the lichking busy so the champions can finish the last 10% of him
in both FotLK you sie a few hundert souls flying around
1
in the halls of reflection where he talks to his daddy
and 2
afther the battle
where frostmourne is shatteret and he gets his remdemption from the spirit of his father that was free from frostmournes grasp
to make a long story short: yes the souls within frostmourne are free
please do not reply with "omg dude you grammar sucks" i know its horrible
Post by
Adamsm
In a way of saying it, he wasn't sent to hell to be tortured for his sins nor ascended to heaven.That's what Soul Death is; you just disappear from existence, no chance to be reborn, or be sent to your final rest.
Post by
Skreeran
For Arthas:
I hope that he wasn't redeemed. He wasn't someone like Zeliak or Mograine who died fighting for the light and then was a good person and fought their control.
No.
He slew the citizens of Stratholme. While that may have been necessary, it wasn't necessary to disband the Silver Hand, or to set about killing them so hastily.
After that, he went mad with revenge when setting out to kill Mal'ganis. Not only was he willing to take up Frostmourne, but he hired mercenaries, burned the ships, stranding his men in frozen hell, and then framed the mercenaries. This was before he lost his soul.
On top of that, once he lost his soul and served the Scourge, he was
cruel
. Zeliak and Morgraine and Thassarian and Koltira were not cruel. They served evil, yes, but they were not cruel, at least that I can remember.
Arthas was deliberately cruel to Sylvanas and many others.
I'm glad he didn't get redemption.
As for the other souls:
It seems to me that the soul of anyone killed by Frostmourne goes directly into Frostmourne. It then either stays there, or is placed into a new form. Once outside Frostmourne, it is then able to be freed. Sylvanas and Saurfang were both killed by Frostmourne, and both found release from the Scourge. Their soul cannot be both within Frostmourne and within their body.
As for souls within Frostmourne, it would make sense that they were released when Frostmourne was broken, although we don't really know. It seemed that Terenas and Uther found release, but we don't know where to.
It's possible that the souls within Frostmourne were damned, but it really doesn't seem to fit Blizzard's bill. Blizzard wouldn't have Uther, one of the greatest paladins to ever live, simply die a soul death.
Plus, the way Terenas' soul passed on would indicate to me that they passed on, while Arthas alone was damned to darkness.
Also:
Where the hell is Ner'zhul in all this?
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Sylvanas and Saurfang were both killed by Frostmourne, and both found release from the Scourge. Their soul cannot be both within Frostmourne and within their body.
Saurfang didn't find release more than his soul's release was orchestrated by Arthas in order to create an absolute Death Knight.
The only release he'll get is when he's burned at his family's pyre.
Ner'zhul has nothing tying him to the mortal coil, so my guess is that Blizzard chose not to showcase him in case some players would be lost.When he dies, he says "IC_Dsaurfang_Death01 - I... Am... Released."
Post by
GVHB
Draenosh's soul was put again in his dead body and became Deathbringer Saurfang. He was realeased but it doesn't mean that the souls that were inside Frostmourne when it was destroyed will be released too. To know the truth will have to wait untill someone killed by Frostmourne appears in a ghostly form somewhere (if it ever happens). That would make it clear that the souls were indeed released.
Post by
Skreeran
Draenosh's soul was put again in his dead body and became Deathbringer Saurfang. He was realeased but it doesn't mean that the souls that were inside Frostmourne when it was destroyed will be released too. To know the truth will have to wait untill someone killed by Frostmourne appears in a ghostly form somewhere (if it ever happens). That would make it clear that the souls were indeed released.As I said.
The first part of my post was establishing that souls can be taken out of Frostmourne, after which they may be able to find freedom from the Scourge, a la Sylvanas and Dranosh.
The second part dealt with those still within Frostmourne.
Post by
Adamsm
Where the hell is Ner'zhul in all this?Already 'dead' remember heh.
But yeah, I know the souls could be taken out of Frostmourne, but I still don't think they were released when the blade was shattered.... that just seems like one more massive cliche on top of the thousand or so others making up this ending...
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Where the hell is Ner'zhul in all this?Already 'dead' remember heh.So was Arthas, apprently.
But yeah, I know the souls could be taken out of Frostmourne, but I still don't think they were released when the blade was shattered.... that just seems like one more massive cliche on top of the thousand or so others making up this ending...Perhaps it's just my propensity to want a release for Uther and those others slain by Frostmourne, but we really can't know either way, and I'd prefer to think it more in line for Blizzard to have them not die a soul death when they didn't do anything wrong.
Besides, if all the similar stories you've read have the souls within die a soul death, then would
that
be the cliche?
Post by
Adamsm
But yeah, I know the souls could be taken out of Frostmourne, but I still don't think they were released when the blade was shattered.... that just seems like one more massive cliche on top of the thousand or so others making up this ending...Perhaps it's just my propensity to want a release for Uther and those others slain by Frostmourne, but we really can't know either way, and I'd prefer to think it more in line for Blizzard to have them not die a soul death when they didn't do anything wrong.
Besides, if all the similar stories you've read have the souls within die a soul death, then would
that
be the cliche?
Meh heh, I just don't like the idea that the souls of the Damned, consumed by the Runeblade are all happy and safe now... that just seems more like Blizzard didn't really had any idea what they were doing with this entire arc for Warcraft; I mean, they created Frostmourne to steal souls, not steal souls and they release them at some point if the blade was broken.....
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
In a way of saying it, he wasn't sent to hell to be tortured for his sins nor ascended to heaven.That's what Soul Death is; you just disappear from existence, no chance to be reborn, or be sent to your final rest.
In Warcraft lore at least. Their is no real Rezing, except for a few holes. Otherwise your soul goes into the great dark, the inexplicable void, never to return.
Post by
Adamsm
In a way of saying it, he wasn't sent to hell to be tortured for his sins nor ascended to heaven.That's what Soul Death is; you just disappear from existence, no chance to be reborn, or be sent to your final rest.
In Warcraft lore at least. Their is no real Rezing, except for a few holes. Otherwise your soul goes into the great dark, the inexplicable void, never to return.
No, in Lore Warcraft if you die, you head on to your last reward; either the Azeroth version of Heaven or Hell. Soul Death removes that choice; you just dissipate into nothing, no chance at that last reward.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.