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Rez...Rez....REZ!
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Post by
438636
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Post by
292411
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Post by
anywherenotes
If you don't rez people after a wipe, read:
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2010/01/harming-others-for-being-fair.html
and a follow up here (if you're interested):
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2010/01/can-you-fight-global-optimum.html
Hmm, Top 10 reasons the guy in the blog is wrong:
1) People can check combat logs and Recount Death while they are on /follow during a corpse run, so using that as an excuse to not release isn't really valid.
2) When the healer solo runs back to rez 4 corpses, sometimes he runs into a stray patrol or some respawns in the instance. Granted it's rare these days when every instance is crushed by an overpowered group in 10 minutes, but if you're in a group that actually has to spend a bit of effort to clear, it's not uncommon for a few spawns and patrols. Solo healer vs. patrol = another corpse run. Entire group vs. patrol = survivable.
3) As a hot healer I can buff and heal the team back to full health while running through the instance, meaning we are ready to rock when we get to the wipe point.
4) Rezzing 4 people after a corpse run usually means 30s of drinking mana, 4 times 10 sec for the rezz, throw some heals, more drinking, buffs, more healing, then more drinking and finally everyone is ready to rock. Make that a good 2½-3 minutes..
Well, not quite 10 reasons, but still..
So if we wipe, everyone corpse runs and help protect the healer on the way back. It's a group effort, so we run as a group. If you want to debate tactics, feel free to use /follow on me and chat away, that way you're ready to help me deal with patrols once we get back inside..
Lets face it, most people refusing to corpse run are just slackers with no other reason that they like to scratch their ass instead of running back..
Agreed that most people who don't run back are just slackers, but on occasion I had people run back only to stop at the entrance (after getting in) and say 'brb'. Than after I'd run up to the group and rez those who didn't run back - it's that one slacker that's at the start of the instance who's holding up everyone.
I think the point of the article is you're doing yourself a disservice of training the slackers to run back, as it's faster to just rez them. If they do run back all at the same time (without getting lost) than yes it's faster, but if you spend time arguing with them, you're wasting your own time.
Post by
173035
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Post by
292411
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Post by
146010
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Post by
anywherenotes
We're getting off topic, but it's clear that by arguing with the slacker you're only slowing down the group. Yes - they are slowing down the group, but so are you. If you started running a minute before he did, and he started running as soon as you said something, than the group is going to be slowed by a minute. If it took 10 minutes of convincing, the group was slowed down by 10 minutes.
If you're doing it to teach them to be part of the team, than you should ask yourself - why you took your time to do that. You decided that it's more worth while for everyone to wait so that you could teach this one person that one lesson. Everyone else had to wait for the argument to end, so they could continue with their run. If you did it to make yourself feel good - that others, in future runs, will not suffer because of this terrible, terrible behavior - than you did it out of your own selfish reason - to make yourself feel good.
Just because you taught that guy a lesson, doesn't mean the next random guy will run back. And it also doesn't mean same guy will run back - maybe just will dream up some reason next time.
Also if a reason is: 'please rez', vs. 'my baby is crying - gotta change her, please rez' doesn't mean the second person should get a rez while first one shouldn't. It maybe just that the guy who never runs back - made up a good excuse that's he's now always using. The first person may actually have a crying baby.
I can sympathize that you had to run back, and you feel bad that others didn't, and now you feel that you are contributing more to the run, while they are slacking. But whether you're going to make him run, or kick him and wait for another (especially if it's a tank), the time of the whole group will be wasted.
Post by
292411
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Post by
UnholyDeciever
I will not resurrect a person who ask for it...and if I die and have to run back in so do you...of course there are plenty of legit reasons for me to resurrect someone, like someone above said a parent needing to change their babies diaper or such ...but in general it's I run back you run back
Post by
150529
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Post by
craftyard
In fact, if you ask again, I will rez you LAST!
If they keep asking I just dont res them -_-
They can run like everyone else is... Usually if they're still there waiting for a res when we get there, they get a kick.
Post by
Supremacy
If you don't rez people after a wipe, read:
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2010/01/harming-others-for-being-fair.html
and a follow up here (if you're interested):
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2010/01/can-you-fight-global-optimum.html
Hmm, Top 10 reasons the guy in the blog is wrong:
1) People can check combat logs and Recount Death while they are on /follow during a corpse run, so using that as an excuse to not release isn't really valid.
2) When the healer solo runs back to rez 4 corpses, sometimes he runs into a stray patrol or some respawns in the instance. Granted it's rare these days when every instance is crushed by an overpowered group in 10 minutes, but if you're in a group that actually has to spend a bit of effort to clear, it's not uncommon for a few spawns and patrols. Solo healer vs. patrol = another corpse run. Entire group vs. patrol = survivable.
3) As a hot healer I can buff and heal the team back to full health while running through the instance, meaning we are ready to rock when we get to the wipe point.
4) Rezzing 4 people after a corpse run usually means 30s of drinking mana, 4 times 10 sec for the rezz, throw some heals, more drinking, buffs, more healing, then more drinking and finally everyone is ready to rock. Make that a good 2½-3 minutes..
Well, not quite 10 reasons, but still...
Still nothin'. Let's finish this.
5) This sets a bad precedent for the entire group. The
entire
group. Especially if you had said "If we wipe, we all run back." That's established. Once you set the rules in place, you need to stand by them. People who ignore that sort of thing because it's easier and faster for them seem to be the kind of people who will ignore kill order because it's easier and faster for them. "Yeah, sure, I know we all agreed on something, but the hell with our agreement. Do what I say."
It's a team effort. Everyone should have a say in these kind of things. If a DPS asks for a rez, you need the option to say no. Otherwise, you're telling people that what you say about your time, your mana, and your spells don't matter.
6) This doesn't just reward people for ignoring the group rules. This actually encourages them to do so. Enhancement shaman rolling need on a caster drop for his off-spec? One that might actually help someone else for their main spec. Sure. Why argue about it? I mean, we can waste all this time arguing or just go on to the next boss. I mean, it's taking more time to argue than it is to just keep going.
7) The author of the article is basing too much of his conclusions on math, and not enough on human behavior. Well, specifically, he's not giving emotions and conscience the proper respect. Simply put, he's treating the behavior like A) It's some kind of bizarre aberration, and B) There is no reason for us to want to keep this behavior.
If I'm late for work, and see someone bleeding to death in the street, I should just ignore him. I mean, mathematically, there's no reason for me to arrive at work even later, right? This is someone I don't know and probably will never see again. So, why should I lose more money, maybe even put my job in jeopardy just to potentially save a life? That makes no mathematical sense, does it?
There is a damned reason that people want fairness in things. There is a reason why you can't just break complex human interactions and emotions into math. You're always going to miss a variable.
8) You zone back into instances/raids with more health and mana than if I cast a spell, yes? You can also apply your own buffs and such? And once you run back to the group, you require less mana to heal, meaning we can get back into things faster? More importantly, while you're running back, someone else can be running back, too, right? Because I can't cast two spells at once. I get an error message. My point is the time for everyone to run back is concurrent. You can't measure that by the same scale you're using for bringing people back one at a time.
9) What if there's just one or two mobs before the boss? It's possible that a tank, healer, and one or two DPS could just clear out the riff-raff while you're running back. That's something I don't think he factored into the equation. "Oh, but it's not fair that I might not get a drop." It's also not fair that you don't want to do what everyone else does.
10) Where's the line? At what point do you just stop sucking it up and taking abuse? Everyone agreed to a fair system. Or even if they didn't, everyone else did the same thing. Why are you letting this one persons slide? This isn't about group dynamics. It's about you, the person behind the keyboard. I mean, what happened to standards? Integrity? Bare minimums? There's a difference between "taking one for the team" and "putting on a dress and letting the team have its way with you."
I mean, what's his deal? Arguing? No, I'm not arguing. My answer is "no". You're asking me for the favor. I don't have to give you a good reason, or even a reason at all. If you can't be bothered to go through the same pains that the rest of the group is, then maybe group work isn't really for you.
There. Those aren't Top 10, but, you know. I think they're valid.
Post by
524320
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Vaeku
My priest is currently level 21, and I'm leveling her completely through instances. Today in Deadmines we had a wipe (the goblin pirate aggroed us somehow), and we all ran back, except for the rogue. He didn't ask for a rez or anything, he didn't even talk in party chat. He just sat there while the rest of us ran back. To top it off, he was doing a terrible job. He kept going ahead of the tank and aggroing mobs, and wouldn't wait for mana users to get back mana.
Normally, I would have said something, but I was tired and wanted to get the run over with.
Why is it always the rogues?
Post by
Frames
Today in Deadmines we had a wipe (the goblin pirate aggroed us somehow)
When your walking on the board to get up to the cabin room, he pats around, if you are low enough lvl and are on the board it will ignore the Line of Sight mechanics and he will "Aggro".
Wipes 50% of DM groups im in =/
Here is the ironic part. When i did it on my rogue i always lived :P
Post by
524320
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
BlueSquared
Leveling lowbie (45-ish) resto druid with 3 irl friends, who all happen to be night elves. You see where this is going....
We're grouped with a huntard who fits the title in every way. He insisted on being the one to "pull" every fight and initiate every fight, and was generally being an ass. We get to the last boss, and his pet charges it before the tank initiates. We all shadowmeld and watch him die. We then finish the boss. Screamed for rez the whole fight. Oh well.
Post by
129414
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Post by
446469
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Post by
487639
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