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Has the true Horde's spirit been dominated by belfs/undead?
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Post by
Adamsm
Just strikes me as convenience more then anything else. The fact that the forsaken are attacking them is pretty much the only reason they need to enter back into the alliance, the enemy of my enemy so to speak.Well, that and the druid thing.
Yeah. Though I was at first under the impression that those night elves were mages, you know, the new sub faction entering back into it.. whats it called...
But druids would explan there teachings to worgen.. like... becoming druids in under a week of meeting them O.o
Well, we still don't know what this Curse thing really is; so it's possible that it mimics something from the past the Druids recognize and are able to use to help them learn it quicker then it would be normally.
As for the NE mage, those are the Dire Maul Highborne looking for protection after both their Prince and their food source(the demon) were killed, so they ran home. But yeah, the new NE mages are going to make a large number of Illidans and Azshara's show up.... /sigh.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Honestly i dont picture the alliance letting in a race it can't trust very well. if the worgen are to be accepted into the alliance, then they must have a pretty good reason to be trusted. Humans (and other alliance races) typically are skeptical of the claims of creatures who look like monsters... if the alliance has a good reason to trust the worgen, (in which case they do if the worgen are accepted in the alliance) then that reason is good enough for it to not make any sense for the worgen to suddenly stoop to the forsaken's standards.
Just strikes me as convenience more then anything else. The fact that the forsaken are attacking them is pretty much the only reason they need to enter back into the alliance, the enemy of my enemy so to speak.
I'm gonna bet the worgen are going to be the alliance version of the forsaken, meaning they do something that does greatly against the spotless alliances code of conduct, same as forsaken went against the hordes code of honor. At that point, it will be enough for the horde to accuse the alliance the same as they did the horde.
I'm not sure if it is convenience so much as they were former members of the Alliance. I mean, Dalaran wizards were attacked by Forsaken, yet what happens? Forsaken becomes exalted with Kirin Tor.
Yeah. there was never really anything blizzard did to explan how you can attack dalaran wizards on horde, but then they decide to welcome you into there city.
Retconn again, lol.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Because Wolverine wasn't in enough Marvel books, he had to start playing WoW.Hey...I can't say as that description impressed
me
any too much...
I'm gonna bet the worgen are going to be the alliance version of the forsaken, meaning they do something that does greatly against the spotless alliances code of conduct, same as forsaken went against the hordes code of honor. At that point, it will be enough for the horde to accuse the alliance the same as they did the horde.Don't count on it. Based on a lot of little details, they're pretty reluctant to hit the Alliance with the villain ball...or even, really, the antihero ball. There was
potential
—corruption in Stormwind, tension in Darnassus, a few draenei acting like complete thugs—but they keep missing the chance to
do
anything with it.
Well, we still don't know what this Curse thing really is; so it's possible that it mimics something from the past the Druids recognize and are able to use to help them learn it quicker then it would be normally.And up until the Cataclysm announcement, the worgen curse was
entirely
Arugal's fault.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm gonna bet the worgen are going to be the alliance version of the forsaken, meaning they do something that does greatly against the spotless alliances code of conduct, same as forsaken went against the hordes code of honor. At that point, it will be enough for the horde to accuse the alliance the same as they did the horde.Don't count on it. Based on a lot of little details, they're pretty reluctant to hit the Alliance with the villain ball...or even, really, the antihero ball. There was
potential
—corruption in Stormwind, tension in Darnassus, a few draenei acting like complete thugs—but they keep missing the chance to
do
anything with it.
Well, the Alliance is more about cleaning house then the Horde for some reason heh.
Well, we still don't know what this Curse thing really is; so it's possible that it mimics something from the past the Druids recognize and are able to use to help them learn it quicker then it would be normally.And up until the Cataclysm announcement, the worgen curse was
entirely
Arugal's fault.
Aye, I know heh. That's the one aspect of Lore I'm looking forward to them expanding on.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Well, the Alliance is more about cleaning house then the Horde for some reason heh.Indeed.
Aye, I know heh. That's the one aspect of Lore I'm looking forward to them expanding on.I'm hoping they'll do more than hand-wave it.
Considering the fanbase's habit of raging about retcons, you'd
think
that they would. But seeing as the fanbase is being somewhat inconsistent on account of "zomg w33rwolfs," I wonder if they're going to bother.
Post by
Adamsm
Aye, I know heh. That's the one aspect of Lore I'm looking forward to them expanding on.I'm hoping they'll do more than hand-wave it.
Considering the fanbase's habit of raging about retcons, you'd
think
that they would. But seeing as the fanbase is being somewhat inconsistent on account of "zomg w33rwolfs," I wonder if they're going to bother.
They should, they did it for the Draenei after all.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
They should, they did it for the Draenei after all.I'd call what they did with the draenei a "hand-wave." The explanation I would have
liked
to have seen would have made it clear that Kil'jaeden had his claws all up in the original story. (Quite frankly, they could still do that. The people who are raging would still rage, but it would tidy up some loose ends for the rest of us.)
Worgen, by rights, would take...well, I'll be nice, and say "at least as much" explanation. But, as I've stated, the same fanbase that raged about draenei doesn't seem to
care
whether or not the new worgen lore is retconned. So I suspect that Blizzard may just hand-wave it again.
Post by
Adamsm
They should, they did it for the Draenei after all.I'd call what they did with the draenei a "hand-wave." The explanation I would have
liked
to have seen would have made it clear that Kil'jaeden had his claws all up in the original story. (Quite frankly, they could still do that. The people who are raging would still rage, but it would tidy up some loose ends for the rest of us.)
Worgen, by rights, would take...well, I'll be nice, and say "at least as much" explanation. But, as I've stated, the same fanbase that raged about draenei doesn't seem to
care
whether or not the new worgen lore is retconned. So I suspect that Blizzard may just hand-wave it again.
/sigh, I know lol. But one can hope. Though, with everything you learn from Rise of the Horde, Unbroken, and then the quests of Outland, it does make more sense... for the most part heh.
I wouldn't mind if the entire worgen lore unfolded all through out the worgen starting zone.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
/sigh, I know lol. But one can hope. Though, with everything you learn from Rise of the Horde, Unbroken, and then the quests of Outland, it does make more sense... for the most part heh.I read. It sounds to me like you read. The
average
WoW fan...probably barely reads quest text. (I'm guessing the draenei retcon
got
so badly blown out of proportion mainly by word of mouth, so to speak.)
I wouldn't mind if the entire worgen lore unfolded all through out the worgen starting zone.Indeed. (One
more
reason to want to get into the beta...)
Post by
306612
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Post by
Rankkor
ok this is a little off-topìc but I'm sort of new to playing WoW (as in I started playing on the retail servers on febrery, of 2009, before that I had to play on private servers due to lack of money to play) but here's a question about the beta.
anyone can participate? or is limited?
as in, when the beta starts, blizz will put something on the main web-site, on that site we can register for the beta if we want to participate (this to ensure only players who wish to join the beta are included) but all aplications are accepted? or is more like a lottery in that only a select ammount of applications will be accepted?
because me, being from outside of america, perhaps I'd have a smaller chance to be accepted than an american player..... U_U
I just wanna believe thhat when the beta is open, I register, and get chosen for it.
so...... recap......... everyone who registers to participate on the beta will participate? (just like on the PTR realms where everyone can join) or is more like a lottery and out of the thousands of applications to participate, only a select amount will be chosen?
Post by
FarseerLolotea
I think that's the biggest peeve I have with the lore right now. They've got some great plots to "demonize" the Alliance, and great characters in the Horde to make them look a whole lot better than they are now. Yet they refuse to do so for both.Fandral's up to something, we know humans aren't all that pure, and
Interrogator Khan
just gives me the creeps.
Meanwhile—despite the fact that the most overwhelmingly good race on the faction has finally gotten paladins—the Horde keeps getting put in positions where they look bad. (Case in point: Garrosh "He'll-Squeal" ending up in charge.)
so...... recap......... everyone who registers to participate on the beta will participate? (just like on the PTR realms where everyone can join) or is more like a lottery and out of the thousands of applications to participate, only a select amount will be chosen?It's a lottery. Anyone who's been subscribed for a certain amount of time has a chance of getting in. I've heard rumors that if you get in once, you've got a better chance in the future. (For all the good that does me...)
Post by
229054
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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
Even so, lore kinda supports it. The worgen are ferocious and wicked by nature and their magic is that of darkness and corruption. Part of it may be because of their world, but I think that its their nature after all and mostly because of this phrase from the Gilneas description on the Cata website (and because these words are the exact same ones used by Ur):
Remarkably, the people of Gilneas have somehow managed to hold on to the last vestiges of their humanity... for now.
Of course, only time will tell. But it feels that the worgen won't be as "honorable" as the other races, or won't care as much for the other nations of the Alliance. Its also part of gilnean culture.I don't know. The fact that they made the worgen druidic (there are currently no druidic worgen mobs in the game; spellcasting worgen are mostly warlocks, plus the occasional mage or shadow priest) and that they made them "ancient allies of the night elves," suggest to me that the worgen won't be any less "honorable" than...well, night elves.
According to the Cata movie, they are supposedly ancient allies of the Night Elves.I could once again point out the inconsistency of the fanbase's response to
that
retcon...but I won't.
Post by
Adamsm
According to the Cata movie, they are supposedly ancient allies of the Night Elves.I could once again point out the inconsistency of the fanbase's response to
that
retcon...but I won't.
Nah it's fine to point it out here Farseer, you'll find civil discussions about it heh.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
FarseerLolotea
I completely forgot about the Night Elf druids when I wrote the response to your post lolotea /facepalm.
I understand what you're saying. However, these worgen are still former humans and gilneans no less. Their culture is still quite sellfish and I think that they are still Gilneas supremacists.
In fact, the night elves themselves are known for their prejudice towards younger races (rather, elves in general), there are many who are like Fandral. Druids no less, who planted Teldrassil on a sellfish act.
These worgen are certainly going to be different than the average worgen, but I don't think we have any reasons to believe that savagery and ferocity won't be some of their traits. Or that the gilnean mindset changed too much and they will start caring much about other nations.Well, here's the deal with that: It seems like night elves themselves have been "softened" quite a bit in WoW. Sure, you've got jerkasses like Fandral, but what the night elves don't really seem is (as Grom Hellscream, of all people, put it) "savage."
Based on that, I doubt the worgen will be treated much differently. Their "cuteified" models—especially the female mask and some of the concept art that's been shown—certainly don't seem like much of a good sign. (In before Delmarus Alt #9001 flaming me for saying that...)
And perhaps this isn't a retcon (well, this is my hope), the Scythe of Elune came from somewhere after all. There might be more to the worgen than we've ever imagined and perhaps writers on Blizzard will take advantage from past lore. They've got to have learned something from the Draenei retcon.The Scythe of Elune appeared when Velinde prayed for it. According to current lore, there was no contact between the night elves and the worgen before that point. Any change to that would be, by definition, a retcon.
As for any "lesson" they may have learned from the draenei retcon? If anything, it appears to be "treat the entire race as a failed experiment and shuffle them under the rug, then put more effort into explaining off
future
retcons." Which is...really going about things the wrong way, from a writing standpoint.
Post by
229054
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