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Why is lying immoral?
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Post by
148723
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
91604
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Orranis
lying is bad because then you can't trust people :/
I agree that it does take away a layer of trust and honesty that should exist, but I'm very opposed to the idea that it's inherently wrong, just like you generally don't tell people missing legs that they're going to bleed out slowly. You say "You're going to be all right" or "We won" or whatever you say to make them feel better in their last moments.
On the first analogy I present, though not lying might get you something more then socks next year (or he could think your spoiled and get you nothing at all), that would be rather selfish as you might wound his pride. Isn't it better to just lie to him and say you like it?
the value of lying can only be determined by your moral values.
although certain laws do address lying (perjury, fraud, and defamation).
These generally address lying sometimes for your own personal gain and always at the expense of others. We can generally all agree that those would be immoral.
Post by
144978
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Squishalot
All right. Hypothetical dilemma.
Let's say you're in Nazi Germany with some Jews hidden in your basement. And you hear a knock on the door.
You open it up...and it's you're girlfriend asking if this dress makes her look fat
.
I wouldn't lie, because my girlfriend is fairly thin, and as such, it'd have to be a pretty frumpy dress that'd make her look fat.
Dilemma solved =D
Post by
donnymurph
I am probably going to get flamed....but I THINK religion may have played a role in the idea of lying being completely immoral.
Which would be ironic.
Oh damn. Didn't even make it past page 1. Your uncle got you socks for your birthday? If you said you liked his present, it would be a lie. It would also
create
avert fix'd conflict.
What if nobody never lied, would your uncle really get sad ? I think he'd just be like: Fine, I'll get you something else next time.
This. I was going to try to say the same thing, but I think you put it better than I could.
The fact that we "protect" people with our lies is pretty much the same reason that we have the cliché "the truth hurts". If we never lied for the sake of protecting one's feelings, I believe people would generally react to the truth in a more emotionally stable manner. In other words, people would have a thicker skin and then we wouldn't
have
to lie to protect one's feelings.
EDIT:
Just as a side-note, I think most people
need
new socks every 3 to 6 months, so they are an appropriate present. I, personally, was
stoked
that one of my mates gave me socks for Christmas. Of course, they have holes in the heels and toes now, and I have new socks. At the time, they were exactly what the doctor ordered.
Post by
Orranis
Context. Every single lie ever told has to be given a context. Even lying for the "greater good" can be immoral. Like, say, lying about reasons for war. "We're bringing democracy" vs "We want the control the oil because it is in out best interest"
Lying is a tool and often it's used to terrible immoral acts. Hell, propaganda, advertising and public relations are all about lying or "bending the truth".
... as for the scenario with gifts... I have on many occasions.. tactfully... told the truth. In all fairness, I nip it in the bud before gift time tho. In my family we just make it known what we don't like. In fact, in many cases we just ask the person what they want. Because for us, it's more insulting to get someone you know something they don't like. It's seen as generally being apathetic and "not part of the family" because you're just "going through the paces" instead of actually caring. So we are generally clear on what we don't like... because people as a rule of thumb don't know what they like.. but know what they don't like (usually because the latter is based on experience) Also, we're all older and we all work and are busy. So just asking what someone likes/wants saves time and energy.
Just an example... generally I'm truthful with people and I usually expect the same in return. Ex: The classic "Does this dress make me look fat?" Which I have had once been asked by my GF. I told her the truth. "I'm not a fan of that dress. It isn't very flattering." That is the truth and then I suggested another dress... She smiled. She was happy I was engaged in her shopping and she liked that I was honest but not critical. The truth doesn't have to be hard.. people watch to many shows with Simon Cowl or Gordon Ramses... being honest doesn't mean you have to be a d-bag... of course people justify that immoral behavior because somehow truth is tied to it.
Oh, simply put tho, lying is generally immoral because it betrays the trust that societies need to function correctly. If everyone lied, society would crumble... our current economic crisis is a prime example of this. When banks lie, when politicians lie and when people lie to themselves and have been lied to. No trust in society means no civilized society. Simple as that.
I am probably going to get flamed....but I THINK religion may have played a role in the idea of lying being completely immoral.
Which would be ironic.
Oh damn. Didn't even make it past page 1. Your uncle got you socks for your birthday? If you said you liked his present, it would be a lie. It would also
create
avert fix'd conflict.
What if nobody never lied, would your uncle really get sad ? I think he'd just be like: Fine, I'll get you something else next time.
This. I was going to try to say the same thing, but I think you put it better than I could.
The fact that we "protect" people with our lies is pretty much the same reason that we have the cliché "the truth hurts". If we never lied for the sake of protecting one's feelings, I believe people would generally react to the truth in a more emotionally stable manner. In other words, people would have a thicker skin and then we wouldn't
have
to lie to protect one's feelings.
EDIT:
Just as a side-note, I think most people
need
new socks every 3 to 6 months, so they are an appropriate present. I, personally, was
stoked
that one of my mates gave me socks for Christmas. Of course, they have holes in the heels and toes now, and I have new socks. At the time, they were exactly what the doctor ordered.
I actually agree I'd made a bad example because I dislike thin-skinned social mannerisms as well, but I'd made it like two years ago and would kind of have to make a heel-faced turn.
I believe that when it comes to something like "Does this dress make me look fat?" it's pretty much an amoral situation, in that you could lie and say no or you could say yes and help her look for a new one and either way you could be doing the right thing. As long as you don't say something like "Girl, any dress make you look fat" there's no real immoral way to answer the question. I'd personally speak my mind because I'd feel like it was kind of my fault if everyone thought she was fat all of a sudden, so I think it'd be more help then good.
But I think that's more of on a day-to-day inconsequential basis, but how about more important things? (Looking at you, Wikileaks.)
Is it moral for a government to lie to it's people if it meant preservation of their interests, or lives? (Theoretically speaking that it actually was). Or does it open up too many opportunities for corruption? Or is it on a case-by-case basis? (I.e. it generally should not be practiced, unless under extreme circumstances a la saving the world (you could necro that debate to if ya wanted :P)).
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Because God said so.
Post by
wolfeyoung
Trust is an important part of society. If lying was okay, then there would be no trust. Every time we interact with a person, there is a good degree of trust.
You go to the bank, you trust the bank to not give you counterfeit money. You buy food at the store, you trust that was is on the outside of the box, is the same as is inside the box. You go to a restaurant and you when you eat the food, you trust that it'll not kill you.
Really, it is common sense why lying is bad. I can't see why you're asking the dumb question of why we shouldn't lie.
I know, some idiot is going to respond that they don't trust anyone. My response is, "Yes you do." When you click on your internet icon, you trust that it'll take you to the internet. You're never surprised when it does, but would be surprised if it didn't. Why? Because you trust that the internet provider you have isn't going to cut you off for no reason.
You take a crap and flush the toilet. You trust that the water company didn't turn off your water, you trust the home-goods store didn't sell you a junk toilet.
We trust more often than we don't. If we didn't trust, then the world would be chaos.
And if you mean "immoral" in the religious sense, then you'd have to believe in religion to understand.
Post by
UnholyDeciever
A lie is a lie no matter how little or small.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Trust is an important part of society. If lying was okay, then there would be no trust. Every time we interact with a person, there is a good degree of trust.
You go to the bank, you trust the bank to not give you counterfeit money. You buy food at the store, you trust that was is on the outside of the box, is the same as is inside the box. You go to a restaurant and you when you eat the food, you trust that it'll not kill you.
Really, it is common sense why lying is bad. I can't see why you're asking the dumb question of why we shouldn't lie.
I know, some idiot is going to respond that they don't trust anyone. My response is, "Yes you do." When you click on your internet icon, you trust that it'll take you to the internet. You're never surprised when it does, but would be surprised if it didn't. Why? Because you trust that the internet provider you have isn't going to cut you off for no reason.
You take a crap and flush the toilet. You trust that the water company didn't turn off your water, you trust the home-goods store didn't sell you a junk toilet.
We trust more often than we don't. If we didn't trust, then the world would be chaos.
And if you mean "immoral" in the religious sense, then you'd have to believe in religion to understand.
Trust exists regardless of whether lying is permitted. You trust things like the water company and stores because you have to. You trust friends and family because you want to. Yet all are perfectly capable of lying.
Post by
138638
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Because God said so.Ho ho ho...
I'd like to see you source this. Last I remember, it was "Though shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
IIRC,
the Hebrew Midwives lied to Pharaoh and God blessed them for it
.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Because God said so.Ho ho ho...
I'd like to see you source this. Last I remember, it was "Though shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
IIRC,
the Hebrew Midwives lied to Pharaoh and God blessed them for it
.
It's still a lie. But it's a lesser evil than murder.
Post by
Skreeran
Because God said so.Ho ho ho...
I'd like to see you source this. Last I remember, it was "Though shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
IIRC,
the Hebrew Midwives lied to Pharaoh and God blessed them for it
.
It's still a lie. But it's a lesser evil than murder.So you're saying that what they did was immoral?
Post by
Monday
Lying is immoral when used to harm somebody. You expect them to tell the truth, but instead they are telling false words to your face while injuring somebody else.
On a separate note, a phrase that I'll attempt to quote on betrayal/treachery (which I place in the same category as lying) goes like this: "Betrayal hurts the most because it comes from somebody who you thought couldn't do such a thing."
E: Also, discussing morals? Madness!
Post by
Skreeran
Lying is immoral when used to harm somebody. You expect them to tell the truth, but instead they are telling false words to your face while injuring somebody else.
On a separate note, a phrase that I'll attempt to quote on betrayal/treachery (which I place in the same category as lying) goes like this: "Betrayal hurts the most because it comes from somebody who you thought couldn't do such a thing."
E: Also, discussing morals? Madness!I agree with this.
But to separate morality into such black and whites as "Lying is immoral, period." is short-sighted.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
But to separate morality into such black and whites as "Lying is immoral, period." is short-sided.
Why? If you believe God is Truth, and what is moral flows from God's nature, then lying by necessity is immoral.
Just because you don't believe in the same principles as someone else, doesn't make their conclusions short-sighted.
Post by
Cambo
Because God said so.
Read the Bible eh. There are a handful of instances where God instructed some people to be deceitful. There was one man in particular (Moses? Jacob? David? I forget!) told to tell the Pharaoh that his wife was his sister.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
It was Abraham. Just because someone did something in the Bible, doesn't automatically make it therefore the right thing to do.
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