This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
My idea involving eugenics
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
351418
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229791
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
124027
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
273605
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
351418
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
In the words of Yuval Levin:
The challenge of eugenics was, and is again, a challenge to our egalitarianism. That is what lies at the heart of the abortion debate, and of the larger debate about emerging biotechnologies. These arguments are not about when a new human life begins—an empirical matter not in real dispute—but about whether every human life is equal. That question is a perfectly serious one, and there are defensible positions on both sides. But too many American progressives have answered in the negative without thinking through the consequences. And increasingly the reasons they give are not liberal reasons—reasons of liberty and personal choice—but scientific reasons, be it the great promise of some very particular avenue of medical research, or the instrument readings that demonstrate Down’s or another genetic condition.
These progressives are, in this sense, new eugenicists. That doesn’t mean they would abide Nazi medicine or forced sterilizations. But it does mean they abide scientific selection to eliminate the weakest among us.
_______________________________________
You want to put a dollar value in fertility? Why stop there? How about people who have really poor families and would be willing to donate all their reusable organs here and now to provide for their families? Because guess, what -- I can guarantee that people would do that too. So, how much do you think life is worth? How about we base it off supply and demand, we'll see how badly the rich people want to keep living! Farming half the human race is exactly what we need.
Post by
TheMediator
In the words of Yuval Levin:
The challenge of eugenics was, and is again, a challenge to our egalitarianism. That is what lies at the heart of the abortion debate, and of the larger debate about emerging biotechnologies. These arguments are not about when a new human life begins—an empirical matter not in real dispute—but about whether every human life is equal. That question is a perfectly serious one, and there are defensible positions on both sides. But too many American progressives have answered in the negative without thinking through the consequences. And increasingly the reasons they give are not liberal reasons—reasons of liberty and personal choice—but scientific reasons, be it the great promise of some very particular avenue of medical research, or the instrument readings that demonstrate Down’s or another genetic condition.
These progressives are, in this sense, new eugenicists. That doesn’t mean they would abide Nazi medicine or forced sterilizations. But it does mean they abide scientific selection to eliminate the weakest among us.
_______________________________________
You want to put a dollar value in fertility? Why stop there? How about people who have really poor families and would be willing to donate all their reusable organs here and now to provide for their families? Because guess, what -- I can guarantee that people would do that too. So, how much do you think life is worth? How about we base it off supply and demand, we'll see how badly the rich people want to keep living! Farming half the human race is exactly what we need.
Sounds reasonable to me. There are already black market organ transcations. Perhaps less innocent people would be killed without having a choice if there were other people who were willingly selling their organs to fill that demand.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
So people who are poor deserve to die and people who are rich deserve to live longer?
If you going to argue with the end of someone\ dying, you should have something better than 'sounds reasonable.'
Post by
124027
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
I wouldn't say poor people deserve to die, I'm just saying things might be better off if they had the option of instead of commiting criminal acts to get money to pay for their family, they had the option of selling their organs. Same for the rich guy, if instead of commiting a criminal act to acquire these organs, they had an option to buy those organs legally, things would likely be better off. We already farm and kill living beings for parts for our own survival, so its really nothing new at all.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I wouldn't say poor people deserve to die, I'm just saying things might be better off if they had the option of instead of commiting criminal acts to get money to pay for their family, they had the option of selling their organs. Same for the rich guy, if instead of commiting a criminal act to acquire these organs, they had an option to buy those organs legally, things would likely be better off. We already farm and kill living beings for parts for our own survival, so its really nothing new at all.
So let's make a legal child abuse system so that we eliminate criminal child abuse. A kid can go in and get abused for an hour and get 2000 bucks.
Making something legal for the sole purpose of getting rid of its illegal counterpart is lol-/faceplam.
Post by
124027
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
People who are truly desperate will commit deseperate acts when it comes down to it, its pretty much a fact (since I'm at my parents, I don't have the study that shows when long term unemployment goes up crime goes up when you factor in lags). Instead of that poor person stealing and murdering to get his money, he can instead give his own life up. On that side of things, there's a big difference. The rich guy is going to get his organs one way or the other if he really wants to, so whether or not its illegal makes no difference in that respect, the only difference is that it won't be people unwillingly being indirectly killed by the rich guy, and innocent people won't be killed by the poor guy.
Post by
Orranis
People who are truly desperate will commit deseperate acts when it comes down to it, its pretty much a fact (since I'm at my parents, I don't have the study that shows when long term unemployment goes up crime goes up when you factor in lags). Instead of that poor person stealing and murdering to get his money, he can instead give his own life up. On that side of things, there's a big difference. The rich guy is going to get his organs one way or the other if he really wants to, so whether or not its illegal makes no difference in that respect, the only difference is that it won't be people unwillingly being indirectly killed by the rich guy, and innocent people won't be killed by the poor guy.
One thousand euros/pounds is not enough to retire on dude... If you wanted to make a communist system worldwide, we would all be poor.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
People who are truly desperate will commit deseperate acts when it comes down to it, its pretty much a fact (since I'm at my parents, I don't have the study that shows when long term unemployment goes up crime goes up when you factor in lags). Instead of that poor person stealing and murdering to get his money, he can instead give his own life up. On that side of things, there's a big difference. The rich guy is going to get his organs one way or the other if he really wants to, so whether or not its illegal makes no difference in that respect, the only difference is that it won't be people unwillingly being indirectly killed by the rich guy, and innocent people won't be killed by the poor guy.
I'll just make the same argument I've made twice already. Let's take a raper now. He's going to rape someone one way or another, so we'd better just set of a nice legal system for him to rape people legally. How about the serial killer. He's going to kill people one way or another, so let's make a legal system for him to do it.
You're not solving anything! You're taking something that is bad and everyone knows it's bad, and painting it pretty colors and putting an official seal on it.
Post by
TheMediator
People who are truly desperate will commit deseperate acts when it comes down to it, its pretty much a fact (since I'm at my parents, I don't have the study that shows when long term unemployment goes up crime goes up when you factor in lags). Instead of that poor person stealing and murdering to get his money, he can instead give his own life up. On that side of things, there's a big difference. The rich guy is going to get his organs one way or the other if he really wants to, so whether or not its illegal makes no difference in that respect, the only difference is that it won't be people unwillingly being indirectly killed by the rich guy, and innocent people won't be killed by the poor guy.
I'll just make the same argument I've made twice already. Let's take a raper now. He's going to rape someone one way or another, so we'd better just set of a nice legal system for him to rape people legally. How about the serial killer. He's going to kill people one way or another, so let's make a legal system for him to do it.
You're not solving anything! You're taking something that is bad and everyone knows it's bad, and painting it pretty colors and putting an official seal on it.
There's nothing wrong about getting organ transplants. Your argument falls apart - because what is being paid for is wrong in one case (rape) and not the other (getting an organ transplant). All we're doing is saying that on the supply side of things, that people should have the choice of what they do with their bodies. Anyways, if someone offered sex for money, its not rape. Sex for money isn't wrong, otherwise it wouldn't have been legalized in numerous countries.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
You're paying for the death of a person. Maybe you didn't understand my example when I brought it up the first time -- we're not talking about simply an organ transplant. We're talking about a guy selling his whole body and whatever can be salvaged from it.
Death in one case, death in the other.
Post by
229791
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
You're paying for the death of a person. Maybe you didn't understand my example when I brought it up the first time -- we're not talking about simply an organ transplant. We're talking about a guy selling his whole body and whatever can be salvaged from it.
Death in one case, death in the other.
Right, I get that someone is dying. I'm saying that there's nothing wrong with the demand side of the equation, and personally I don't see anything wrong on the supply side that someone can decide to kill themself for money. They aren't being forced to do anything, they can walk away. All we're doing is saying hey, you've got a perfectly good body, we'll pay you for your body when you die. We have similar things that already exist anyways - if someone dies, then their family might get insurance money on that person. There already exists a monetary price on people's heads, all we're doing is allowing someone to get those funds by their own choice. I guess it comes down to the fact that you think only some mysterious wizard is allowed to decide when you die, and I disagree - if you want to die, that's your own choice.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
It's sure fun holiday, expect that annually ~6 people die from drowning, alcohol poisoning, traffic accidents...
Now these deaths could be avoided by simply banning the midsummer celebrations, and making it just a normal day where people work, and do normal stuff.
But how many politicians have tried to pass laws against midsummer celebrations ? Has anybody really thought about banning it ? Do 6 human lives weight more than million people's joy and fun ?
Answer for all the above questions is:
No.
You're missing the distinction between ending life and putting life at risk. I put my life at risk all the time for certain goods -- I drive on the road, I drink from a public water fountain, I eat food I haven't personally checked for food poisoning / disease, etc. Partying during party season is an example of this.
That is something very different from actually ending life.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.