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10.2.5
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10.2.6
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Post by
LookOut
You had 50,4% dodge as total putting you on 30,4% as total after debuff.
32,19%+3,95%= 36,14% Avoidance as total
You had 36,14%-30,4%= 5,74% more avoidance then you had so please stop lying.
You're blind. It clearly says 52.04% dodge on my character screen. 36.14 - 32.04 = 4.10%
Learn some ****ing math instead of insulting smarter people of telling lies. I said 4%, and I was apparently nice enough to round it down for you.
And wow you had 15567 more HP which doesn't do anything, since remeber High HP doesn't in any way reduce incoming dmg and also it only gives extra chances to noob healers end of story until you prove it does any actualy good stuff.
Tank ICC for once. You won't stand a chance against the big skeleton
trash
. Adds on Lady Deathwhisper melee you for tons of damage. And healers can be MC'd (on KT as well), which means no heals are incoming. There's tons of abilities that make sure you are healed for less and you to take more damage. I will survive, you will not.
A passive ability which kicks in everytime you crit, you get a bubble on you which absorb 25% of AP amount and if i remeber correctly the guys link he had around 3800 AP meaning he can get bubble which absorbs 950 dmg. Don't know the swing time of bear but i guess it is weapon time or as minium 1,5 Sec as GCD. They have high crit chance so they will probaly have it up alot.
Did you click that bear form buff like I told you to? No. No you did not. Click it and
8k AP
will magically appear. That's not 950 absorbed, but 2k instead. O yeah, and 8k AP beats the crap out of your 5.5k
So to this comment:
Also i had around 5200 AP so i would probaly do more dmg then the druid.
.... AHAHAHAHAHAHA (yeah I can do nab laughs as well)
Last thing i know is that they can heal them 4% of there hp when they crit but can only happen 1 time each 6 Sec.
Not only ourselves, but all melee (and hunters) as well.
Please if i have forgot something please tell me.
Check what Hashmel linked above me.
"Death Pact" They can sacrifice a ghoul each 2 min to heal
them
40% of there Hp, but this heal can't crit. Tank has 45k Hp 45000/100 = 450/1% so now we just multiplicate the 1% amount with 40 to get the answer on how much it heals. 450/1%x40 = 18000 Hp or rather said 18k Hp it can heal what pappers say. Haven't tried it as tank and imganine to be able to heal that huge amount each 2 min.
who's "them"? O yeah, the dk.
And now it's you who's telling lies, your tank only has 41.5k hp (w/ frost presence ofc).
Post by
hashmel
Say you have a bear with 52k health and 66% physical damage reduction and a DK with 41k health and 62% physical damage reduction, without any heals they can withstand the following
The bear can take 152,941 physical damage before dying
The DK can take 107,894 physical damage before dying
Add their passive damage reduction talents, protector of the pack and blade barrier.
The bear can now take 173,796 physical damage before dying
The DK can now take 113,572 physical damage before dying
Add their 1 minute cds, barkskin and bone shield (lets just say it lasts the full duration)
The bear can now take 217,254 physical damage before dying
The DK can now take 141,965 physical damage before dying
Add their longer cds, survival instincts and icebound fortitude
The Bear can now take 315,018 physical damage before dying (this is the maximum this bear can take if incapacitated)
The DK can now take 202,807 physical damage before dying (this is the most this DK can take if incapacitated)
Noticing a trend here?
Now lets say avoidance is a definitive, which it is anything but, and we'll use the numbers you mentioned just above here, 52.04% for the bear and 56.14% for the DK
The bear can now take 656,834 incoming physical damage before dying
The DK can now take 462,396 incoming physical damage before dying
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lets look at magic damage now, armor and dodge don't mean a thing for it.
Once again the bear has 52k health and the DK has 41k health and 32.19% parry (spell deflection lol)
The bear can take 52,000 magic damage before dying
The DK can take 41k health before dying
Add in the passive damage reduction talents, protector of the pack, blade barrier and magic suppression
The bear can now take 59,090 magic damage before dying
The DK can now take 45,912 magic damage before dying
Add in the 1 minute cds, barkskin and bone shield (lets just say it lasts the full duration)
The bear can now take 73,862 magic damage before dying
The DK can now take 57,390 magic damage before dying
Add the longer cds, survival instincts and icebound fortitude
The bear can now take 107,099 magic damage before dying
The DK can now take 81,985 magic damage before dying
Lets toss in spell deflection now and once again say it's definitive, it's not but lets say it is
The bear takes his 107,099 magic damage before dying
The DK now takes 95872 magic damage before dying
Don't forget AMS lets the DK absorb half his health in magic damage
The bear takes his 107,099 magic damage before dying
The DK now takes 116,372 magic damage before dying
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bear can take 42% more physical damage than the DK
The DK can take 8% more magic damage than the bear
What's a good ratio of physical to magic damage in WoW, 2/3 physical fair enough? (there's more physical damage than that but lets be generous)
So a bear can take roughly 25% more overall damage than a DK after health, armor, avoidance, talents, and damage reduction abilities.
Post by
Arkst
*peipo reply template*
Quote Person :
" Bears rule "
Mock :
Roooooooooflll? LOoooooooOOLOLOLOLOlLLL
Explain in dumb:
Your Stuupid.. U has this muuch
But I has thiiiiisss Much! Bears suck blah blah
Blame/Make another point to finish:
Healers are rubbish if you die... But dks have imba EVRYTHIN N DONT DIE
* Repeat for every post proving you wrong *
Post by
MegaVolt
@peipo:
You keep saying that high HP isn't important if the healers do their job.
Then why do you think having more avoidance is of any importance? If the healers "do their job" it won't matter if the tank has 30% avoidance or 40% avoidance.
Why would avoidance be more important than HP?
Post by
LookOut
Where is Anti-Magic Zone?
And where is the calculations to prove this? So far you have just wrote some numbers.
Let me get this straight: he just proved (the numbers add up, don't be so lazy and check the math behind it yourself) that the dk is better against magic damage than the bear, and STILL you whine about anti-magic zone?
GTFO, now!
P.S. avoidance does jack **** against magic damage. Another reason to take stam over dodge/parry
Post by
492259
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hellomynameis
Edit 2: Here it is
http://chardev.org/?c
You can play with all equipment, gems, chants, etc to build your set and see how it affects your parry and other stats after diminishing returns. Just import your character and go to town.
I just used it, and i can tell this i did not reach 45% since i was not doing it seriously but i can tell this i reached enough % in parry to have more then druid has in % in dodge if they have total 50% in raid buffs then enter ICC.
So i just proved that Dk has better talents,spells, and even better Avoidance in ICC so i ask again what true reason is there to actualy take a druid tank there? Ofc he can be your friend/brother etc. and thats the reason to take him there. But what if he wasen't.
So, you reached enough parry to have more then druid has dodge. Did you pause to glanse at the % dodge you had when you did this? was it above 20% perhaps? If so, you loose as much avoidance as the druid does. I find it funny that you need to reply in a new post every time you're quoting someone. 5-6 posts in a row. It just makes me laugh. Tnx for that. :)
Edit, now I finally read all the posts.. man this is entertaining. the discussion is no longer the 20% dodge debuff I see, now its who can take more dmg before dying. Well, I can honestly say I feel left out. This has become a DK vs Druid thread. And I dont tank on my DK or Druid, but on my pally. So let me get some pally numbers in here! ..please. ;)
Post by
474779
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
495174
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hashmel
Warrior
Passive Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.1
) =
0.9
Passive Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.1
) * (1 -
0.06
) =
0.846
Active Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.1
) * (1 -
0.
4
) =
0.54
Active Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.1
) * (1 -
0.06
) * (1 -
0.
4
) =
0.5076
Paladin
Passive Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.06
) * (1 -
0.03
) =
0.9118
Passive Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.06
) * (1 -
0.03
) * (1 -
0.06
) =
0.857092
Active Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.06
) * (1 -
0.03
) * (1 -
0.5
) =
0.4559
Active Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.06
) * (1 -
0.03
) * (1 -
0.06
) * (1 -
0.5
) =
0.428546
Druid
Passive Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.12
) =
0.88
Passive Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.12
) =
0.88
Active Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.12
) * (1 -
0.2
) =
0.703
Active Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.12
) * (1 -
0.2
) =
0.704
Blood Death Knight
Passive Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.08
) * (1 -
0.05
) =
0.8648
Passive Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.08
) * (1 -
0.05
) =
0.8648 * (1 - (parry% *
0.45
)
Active Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.08
) * (1 -
0.05
) * (1 -
0.3
) =
0.60536
Active Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.08
) * (1 -
0.05
) * (1 -
0.3
) =
0.60536 * (1 - (parry% *
0.45
)
Frost Death Knight
Passive Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.
1
) * (1 -
0.05
) =
0.855
Passive Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.
1
) * (1 -
0.05
) =
0.855
Active Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.
1
) * (1 -
0.05
) * (1 -
0.3
) =
0.5985
Active Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.
1
) * (1 -
0.05
) * (1 -
0.3
) =
0.5985
Unholy Death Knight
Passive Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.08
) * (1 -
0.05
) =
0.8648
Passive Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.08
) * (1 -
0.05
) * (1 -
0.06
) =
0.812912
Active Physical Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.08
) * (1 -
0.05
) * (1 -
0.3
) * (1 -
0.2
) =
0.484288
Active Magic Damage Reduction = 1 * (1 -
0.08
) * (1 -
0.05
) * (1 -
0.06
) * (1 -
0.3
) * (1 -
0.2
) =
0.45523072
Note that:
Bone Shield
is charge based and won't last the full duration.
Barkskin
has a much shorter cooldown and therefore can be used 2-3 times within the same time as 1 of the alternative.
While
Spell Deflection
is included it may not always be taken as the combined "chance", little threat of magic damage, and only applying to direct damaging magic damage make it a fairly poor choice.
Shield
Wall
= 1 - (0.4 * 12 / 180) =
0.97
4
Divine Protection
= 1 - (0.5 * 12 / 180) =
0.96
7
Barkskin
= 1 - (0.2 * 12 = 60) =
0.96
Icebound Fortitude
= 1 - (0.3 * 12 = 120) =
0.97
If used every 80 or fewer seconds barkskin will reduce overall damage taken by the same if not more.
Divide max health by the respective bolded values to figure up how much of that type of damage one can take before death in the absence of heals. For physical damage do the above then divide by (1 - mitigation from armor as a decimal) ie. you have 70% armor mitigation, do the above then divide that by (1 - 0.7) (This is where I'd factor in
Unbreakable Armor
) For AMS do the above then add (max health / 2) to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why would I include AMZ which effects everyone in it equally? Same reason I neglected to include blessing of sanctuary, it effects everyone equally so there's no point comparing apples to apples.
Even giving DKs the benefit of the doubt by assuming there's more magic damage in the game than there is in comparison to physical damage and assuming that avoidance is a sure thing bears still are able to sustain the most damage without dying.
Kapucha, not to be a stickler but bear form, frost presence, and defensive stance share a 207.35% threat multiplier while also having several +threat
abilities
.
Bears hit hard, have a high crit chance, a stacking crittable bleed, and a decent amount of ArP on their tank gear, heck their tank is gear is basically high stamina dps gear.
Post by
hellomynameis
I neglected to include blessing of sanctuary, it effects everyone equally so there's no point comparing apples to apples
Its a buff paladin tanks always have on, and druid/warrior/dk tanks only have it on IF the other tank in the group is a paladin. Druid buff is given by druid dps/healers/tanks, so thats most likely always available in raids. But speaking as a paladin tank, I feel BoSanct should go side by side with RF buff. But other then that, I almost want to make my drood a tank after seeing these numbers :) Tnx Hashmel
edit: typo
Post by
hashmel
I find it amusing tbh, woke up this morning excited to see what was recently posted, the best part is after seeing some of his other posts elsewhere I'm fairly sure he either does nothing but troll or is seriously this deluded.
Also makes you feel really good as a druid having a thread just to point out our awesomeness. =)
Post by
495174
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
hashmel
Been waiting for one and reporting as needed but I guess they figure why bother when he'll just make another account or a new identical thread meaning more work for them as apposed to letting him play in his little playpen here.
Post by
144872
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
495174
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
MegaVolt
Oh my god what a bunch of morons and di
c
kheads you are... All of you. Except for Mr.
peipo
who
royally FUc
KED all of you. I can't stop laughing at this. Please, continue, try and prove this poor bastard wrong. I bet you can't =/
So many pages of wasted text. I am sorry, but this troll has defeated you (
hashmel, rokkon, MegaVolt, LookOut, NetStormer
and so on). Follow
Nnoutaja's
example and GTFO while you can. Please.
I'm with hashmel on this. peipo is very amusing. Having our own village idiot is fun ;)
And there is actually useful stuff coming out of it. Who cares if peipo is convinced of anything? I find hashmels tank comparison to be extremely useful, lots of awesome information that I enjoy reading.
Btw the frost DK is missing
Unbreakable Armor
. Not a direct physical damage reduction but armor works in the same way ... too bad it's hard to calculate the way you did since it's based on current armor.
Post by
MegaVolt
Since HP doesn't not reduce dmg at all while Avoidance has chance to reduce Melee dmg with 100% making so the Healer maybe haven't to heal that time saving him mana and time.
RRRooooooooooooooooooooooooooooFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Why would a healer need that? A healer should do his job! If he can't heal a tank that doesn't dodge a few hits then the healer sucks! Parry and dodge is completely unnecessary. If you need parry or dodge you are running with noob heals! Tell your healers to do their jobs!
Post by
hashmel
Wait a tick...if a tank's survivability is based on the healer and not their health/avoidance/crit reduction/talents/abilities/and skill then why am I wearing gear at all? I should just run up to the boss while naked in no form/stance/presence/righteous fury or spec and just autoattack. Why am I even playing a druid/pally/warrior/DK when i can be naked with no spec and autoattack as a mage/lock/hunter/rogue/priest/or shaman? If I die it's the healer's fault right?
1% avoidance means that for every 100 attacks that hit you you will most likely avoid 1 but could very well get hit by all 100
1000 health means you can take 1000 more damage after all damage calculations without dying while also granting more time to be healed equal to the time it takes to receive that 1000 extra damage after all damage calculations and effecting percentage based abilities such as SI, FR, LS, AD, LoH, VB ILotP, RT, and GoRT heals.
Post by
karlusdavius
This thread still going? I'm amazed. Oh and Megavolt? the reason you were met with such force was because you play by looking at meters and HPS. HPS is not the be all and end all of healing and a priest healer isn't a druid. Just because a build increases HPS, doesn't mean its good for healing and maximizes the class.
RRRooooooooooooooooooooooooooooFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
You also know better than to reply to something like this. Stop feeding the troll (which we amusingly dubbed "Minivolt" teehee). It will put a dent in your shiny image.
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