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Why has (non-arena) PvP been so utterly ruined in Wotlk?
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Post by
mudd
I've just levelled my fourth (and probably final) level 80. The previous characters are fairly well geared, the best is about 5000 gear score. One was a rank 11 in Vanilla and the other I did a few Naxxramas runs with and got bored.
I was able to gear that character up very quickly in heroics and raids. This latest character I want to play PvP (battlegrounds, some arena) with.
I've realised that if I play 1 or 2 hours a night in battlegrounds it's going to take me months to gear him up in PvP gear. Compare this to running heroic dungeons and raiding which is really less than a month, 2 weeks. I could get the PvP sets faster by running heroics than actually doing battlegrounds.
I'm not asking for free items as you can see, but I don't understand the strategy behind it. Why does everything cost so much in honor relative to other tokens?
Can anyone explain what Blizzard might be thinking with this?
Post by
304214
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Zanny
If you want an understanding of what "changed" in pvp, Blizzard did a few things.
1. They standardized itemization across all gear levels, giving epics for everyone except dps mail and dps plate 5 stats, and this meant no more 7+ stat pvp gear.
2. They removed increase armor on pvp gear as well, meaning less physical mitigation baseline.
3. They expanded classes and specs that were previously 1 button wonders (destro locks) into using a wide variety of spells of varying cast times and effectiveness. As a result, everyones dps took a significant leap up just from the talent / ability changes and leveling scaling of attacks. The introduction of cycles that were previously almost never used (besides rogues) for all classes meant everyone had significant burst from somewhere.
4. They added another 10 talent points, adding more damage abilities and ways to use older abilities to do significantly more damage.
5. They did NOT improve stamina in any way, meaning a linear scaling of health from lvl 70 to 80 (even though itemization budets ballooned, everything went up and stamina went along with it)
The result of these 5 events meant that health scaled linearly where everyones damage went up exponentially, and the way blizzard's itemization works they are bandage fixing the problem that health does not scale with damage increases at all anymore. They have given up on this avenue and are redoing all the itemization in Cataclysm anyway.
Another problem is they gave everyone a significant infusion of MORE cc. Warriors charge is now usable in combat and does not have DR, mages got a stun, shamans got a sheep, rogues got a disarm, etc. They gave everyone MORE tools to lock other players out even longer, while fights started taking significantly less time to end because health was scaling poorly.
As a result of this botched system that was propped up for raiding to become easier, they let pvp fall by the wayside.
I mean, dks in s5 were the most OP class this game has ever seen at any point in its history. They did not care or think at all about what their choices about the new class / etc would cause in the pvp world, mainly because a grossly OP easily leveled toon would mean more $ in the short term.
But really, they made fewer pvp changes in bc than in wrath. They only added 1 bg. The only difference betwen bc and wrath is that they actually itemized pvp gear well in bc. Now they are forcing it to line up with pve counterparts and its hurting survivability alot.
And pvp gear has always taken alot of the same thing to get. In classic it took 16 hours a day of constant AV to get HWL. Its gotten easier, but it still has the same model (commit X time for X reward) unless you play arenas, in which case its "be OP class X for easy gladiator or struggle as UP class Y until next patch comes out and makes you OP and class X UP"
Post by
windstrum
Blizzard has
spoken
about their thoughts on the current state of PvP. They also look to be moving away from Arenas, and more toward the Battleground model.
I personally don't believe PvE and PvP (aside from world PvP) belong in the same game. There are far too many balancing issues, and PvE enjoyment suffers for it.
Post by
mudd
I had tier 1/2 on my shaman and enjoyed 2/3 hitting the poor people in blue items. Now I have a character in a PvP blue set, plus 2 gladiator items and a few Ulduar items and it happens to me (300 resilience).
It's like they added resilience and a barrier to the gear with exactly the same outcome, and creating the exact same problem the MC/BWL gear caused.
Now it seems Paladins and Death Knights rule in battlegrounds for 3 shotting people. Atleast your link windstrum shows they know the problems. The game spells were designed for player vs npcs as you can tell by the huge amount of "I can't move" stuns.
For time for an item - 40,000 honor for one piece is around 40 Arathi Basins or 60 AVs. That's 13 hours! Compare that to some badge runs in heroics or a 25 man pickup group. Why and how have they decided it will take so much longer than PvE?
Post by
HoleofArt
Why and how have they decided it will take so much longer than PvE?
Good question.
I'd prefer that instead of just upgrading the no arena point gear every season, that they just made the previous season's cheaper. Or just start like that in the first place.
Gearing up for PvP sucks in the beginning, gets better as you collect more pieces.
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