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A question about Religions
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Post by
TheMediator
I don't get what point you're trying to make.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I don't get what point you're trying to make.
Defining free will.
Post by
Queggy
The whole difference in our arguments as you've pointed out is that you put the focus on man, and I put it on God.
I believe that He won't take salvation away no matter what you do
and you believe that your actions determine our current state of salvation.
Well, I've been waiting for you to say it. In other words, yes he does limit your free will. Every time I asked you whether he is taking away free will you denied it.
So, you, as a believer, have less of a free will than I do.
That's all I've been trying to understand.
So you
want
to lose your salvation?
We are born with sin, but we didn't choose to. It's because of the events in the Garden that we are born into sin. Wouldn't that be limiting free will?
Post by
TheMediator
Ivokk, that's an agnostic point of view. Atheists posit that God does not in fact exist and
believe
that point of view. I don't like to consider myself an agnostic because I personally don't believe that both hypothesis have equal weight and the term agnostic sort of carries that connotation, considering the evidence supporting atheism currently, yet I feel that it would be a lie to say I
know
that a God does not exist (much like I feel it would be a lie to claim to know God exists). When it comes to religious arguments, I throw myself in with the atheist point of view, simply because my own uncertainty may appear to undermine the position I am arguing.
Defining free will.
Right, but I don't see how defining free will undermines Queggy's stance, unless I'm missing something where it says that free will is never restricted by God, which, would be a lie anyways because God would restrict us plenty indirectly through devices like gravity.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
No, I want to be able to keep it
freely
. Me living a holy life because I choose to is more perfect and more fulfilling that me living a holy life because I already "sold my soul to God" and can't do anything about it.
Free will is truly a gift, because it is through it that our love and service towards God can be more perfect.
We are born with sin, but we didn't choose to. It's because of the events in the Garden that we are born into sin. Wouldn't that be limiting free will?
No because, original sin actually changed our nature (caused it to fall). We can still act according to it completely freely though.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Defining free will.
Right, but I don't see how defining free will undermines Queggy's stance, unless I'm missing something where it says that free will is never restricted by God, which, would be a lie anyways because God would restrict us plenty indirectly through devices like gravity.
It's in our nature to be affected by gravity, so it has no bearing on will. Did you even read it -_-
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
Alright, so are you saying that you believe that you know that God does not exist? Because that's atheism.
It's not that an atheist death is cruel, cold, and pointless... it's just... uncertain. I can't tell you you will not go to Heaven, nor can I tell you you will, because I don't know what happens when you die.
This seems to imply that opposite - that you do NOT know. Unless you're saying that you believe you know for sure no deities exists, but there could still be an afterlife. Which... although strange... I don't know, seems very strange but I suppose possible.
It's in our nature to be affected by gravity, so it has no bearing on will. Did you even read it -_-
Yeah. Well, one could say it is not the nature of a purified soul to reject God, so by giving yourself to God, you yourself are discarding your ability to reject God.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
Is it possible (and this is an impossible abstraction to create in your mind) to imagine what it is like to not exist?
My closest analogy would be a dreamless sleep. There's just nothing there, and you don't recognize the nothingness. Its just nothingness. Mmm... I don't know if I want to imagine it.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Yeah. Well, one could say it is not the nature of a purified soul to reject God, so by giving yourself to God, you yourself are discarding your ability to reject God.
But if that's so, then they would never sin. Having a nature would mean you can't sin. Now I don't want to be the judge of anyone, but I would pose this rhetorical question to Queggy: have you sinned since accepting God? I know I sure have. There's proof right there that neither of us have this new nature of which you speak.
Post by
TheMediator
Perhaps you can't sin then. The acts that you commit are no longer sins by discarding the ability to reject God.... I guess.
Post by
HiVolt
I have a question:
In a few religions, there are plenty of areas of knowledge that are considered sinful. Like, being a Christian and studying Pagan practices (even if the person is question is only studying, and not putting the practices into practice himself). Why does religion put a ban of sorts on certain areas of knowledge?
If we truly want to appreciate all of God's creation, wouldn't we want to know all we can about it, even if that means knowing about something that the Church, and thereby God, would deem as sin?
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
In a few religions, there are plenty of areas of knowledge that are considered sinful. Like, being a Christian and studying Pagan practices (even if the person is question is only studying, and not putting the practices into practice himself). Why does religion put a ban of sorts on certain areas of knowledge?
Says who?
You can't debate/preach against something you don't understand.
Post by
184848
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
In a few religions, there are plenty of areas of knowledge that are considered sinful. Like, being a Christian and studying Pagan practices (even if the person is question is only studying, and not putting the practices into practice himself). Why does religion put a ban of sorts on certain areas of knowledge?
Says who?
You can't debate/preach against something you don't understand.
Aye, lotta of the churchs in my area tried to get any books on wicca removed from all libraries and stores, claiming they were capable of leading people on the path to Devil Worship.
And I'm a firm believer in two of the creeds of Wicca as well heh.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
The practice of magic is forbidden.
That has nothing to do with studying paganism.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Aye, lotta of the churchs in my area tried to get any books on wicca removed from all libraries and stores, claiming they were capable of leading people on the path to Devil Worship.
Did the books describe magic practices? If so, I'm not surprised they got band.
However the point is, studying a religion =/= practicing a religion
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