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Porn, Immoral?
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Post by
Squishalot
At risk of continuing to inflame your defensiveness on the matter, you never stated that your first statement was a non-religious one, then complained:
However, assuming those two things in the latter category do exist (sanctity of marriage and moral obligation to view every person as more than an object of one's own desires), then pornography does infringe upon those by its nature
Why is marriage sacred? And please, no divine command.
Why does pornography objectify women? There are many feminist supporters of pornography. Again, no divine command. "Because God said so" is not an argument.
Give me a single time I've made an argument from divine command to make a philosophical point. Looking down on me because I believe certain things doesn't accomplish anything.
As far as I can tell, you didn't like the fact he assumed you were using religion to make a philosophical point. You never clarified previously whether you were or were not using religion.
Anyway, in an effort not to sidetrack too much, you also never really provided a reason why marriage was sacred/sanctified. You said:
Sex is the consummation of physical and emotional aspect of this self-giving. Marriage provides a structure for such a relationship to take place safely: both parties have promised themselves to each other and that is the backbone of the relationship. Remove marriage from sex and sex can no longer be a total self-giving because there is no backbone for the relationship, and there is no reason to assume there will be any lasting trust.
In this, you imply that marriage is simply a structure within which self-giving can be done, as it provides a layer of trust between the partners (this is flawed - you can still have lasting trust without marriage, as homosexuals are forced to do in many places across the world). What you fail to demonstrate is that pornography results in a destruction of trust within a marriage, which is necessary for your argument to hold. You need to show that pornography cannot exist in a relationship with lasting trust.
Why haven't you responded to Ivokk's comment that some couples use pornography to strengthen their relationship, to spice bedroom life up and all? Instead, you focused on the utilitarianism side of his argument, and ignored the most fundamental piece, right at the very top. Just like utility, you can't pick and choose what you want to take or not, unless you want us to assume that silence = agreement?
Anyway, why are we limiting this to RL porn? How about hentai, which doesn't have the problem of abusing young impoverished actresses with drug addictions for films?
Post by
Wildhorn
I have a question to ask , as this is my first thread i dunno if this is an acceptable subject but what i would like to know is if any of you beleive in porn to be im/moral and why , also please
do not drag religion into this
.
And if it is immoral the real reason behind this is , Should i try to stop my friends from doing it?
Why would we not drag religion into this? This is the main reason why some people think it is immoral, this is because religion said so.
And you should not stop your friend from doing it. People are free to do what they want with their body.
Post by
jefflovealex
As long as your single, its all good, its paying people to work, people get pleasure from it, no problem atall.
Its only wrong if it leads to bad habits.
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374287
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471651
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304510
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374287
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229791
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Post by
Gammosh
Its a private thing you do in the privacy of you own private home in your even more private space, privately. Should not even bring it up to your friends unless you want them to look at you like youre doing the upsidedown crab walk as your head spins around.
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471651
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484763
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484763
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Post by
jefflovealex
New solution, Kill your friends, And eat there hearts to gain their courage.
Some people watch porn as a release for things they cannot do, I know a bloke who's paralyzed from the waste down and he gets some sort of pleasure from it, so just let people do as they wish,
If your mates insist on flashing it as you, just get new mates.
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229791
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Post by
Squishalot
And i beleive the burden of proof falls on both and as long as im undecieded ill go on the safe side
By saying that there's a 'safe side', you're implicitly saying that you're not undecided, you're leaning more towards one than the other.
I think studies show that addicts are more likely to become addicted to other things especially when withdrawing from one.
The use of pornography and 'addiction' should be kept separate. Is a glass of wine bad for you each day? What about 10 glasses? Likewise, is a bit of porn every now and then bad for you - if it provides you with utility benefit, but doesn't result in addiction, isn't that ok?
You're stereotyping porn users with porn addicted people. Not everyone who uses alcohol is an addict.
And utilitarianism means anything that increases happiness is morally correct, please read the link from hyper.Though i gave extreme examples.
Yes, but you're missing one key point - the unhappiness of everyone who died, and the unhappiness in the survivors of who lost friends and family in WW3. Utilitarianism requires counting total happiness, not just the 'surviving' happiness. I'm pretty sure that dying makes one fairly unhappy.
Post by
484763
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Post by
Squishalot
No safe side means if its im-moral I'm on the right side, and if its moral then it doesn't matter so not watching porn is acceptable no matter what the answer is thus being a "safe" side
Actually, it means you're being bad by not watching porn, and by speaking out against it. The analogy would be to speak out against God, only to find out that he was right.
Okay not all porn watchers are addicts, but a number of them are
Ok, not all forum users are idiots, but a number of them are. Can I generalise and say that you're an idiot? Not on the basis that you're a forum user - that would be unfair and incorrect. But that's how you're treating porn watchers. Given that supposedly, over 90% of men (from developed countries) by the age of 18 have watched pornography, I find it hard to believe that even half of them are addicts. Whereas, on the other hand, my personal experience would suggest that well more than half of forum users are idiots.
But in the long term everyone would be from one group and stop fighting thus increasing long term happiness , and still trials would be public opinion , if a neighborhood agreed to kill someone it would be accpeted and so on and so forth
Trials would only be public opinion if people were rational (which they aren't) and capable of understanding their true utility functions (which they don't). What's the present value of utility? Considering how many people you'd be wiping off the face of the planet, I'd say that there's a lot of future happiness that you'd be losing by killing people.
Anyway, drop the utility argument. Your understanding of utilitarianism isn't any better than anyone else's use of it. A world war can't really be justified through utilitarianism without breaking a lot of the rules.
Post by
349103
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