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Cataclysm Speculation: Why Garrosh Will Be Loved and Why Greymane Will Be Hated
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Post by
Adamsm
The one he bumped earlier this evening.
Post by
Rankkor
=( I don't want cairne dead T_T he reminds me of my grandpa' god rest his soul.
I'd very much prefer it that cairne proves he's still got it by traveling arround azeroth with thrall as his side-kick to save the world once more, since we all know thrall is a legendary hero.
as for the reasons of us going to war, I had tought another posible essenario.
we know that orgrimar get's reinforced with some dark steel, and some say it gets destroyed before getting rebuilt and reinforced.
what if the alliance launches a large scale assault on orgrimmar, razing the city, abducting thrall (who more than likely goes willingly and peacefully with them to prevent further death) and then they leave.
garrosh steps in, city rebuilt, we got our reason to go to war, cairne is still alive, thrall rescued by the green gnomes, with even squeakier voices, and even more explosive gadgets.
this is all speculation on my part but there it is.
and there is no doubt that the worgen will be the dark faction of the alliance.
balance must exist above all things on this game, the horde had 2 dark factions, and the alliance none.
blizz fixed this partially by redeeming the blood-elves on the sunwell thingie, and now they will further balance it by adding a dark faction to the alliance (as I believe now the forsaken to be unredeemable, a few isolated forsaken may redeem themselves, but they as a society completely are irrevocably dark)
the only proof alliance suporters show of grenn not being a hateable antagonist is because he's nice to the players saving them from execution at the start of the game.
but here's a news flash, he can be nice to his people and a prick to everyone else, every bit of lore I've read about grenn, every book, citation, quote and phrase issued by him marks him as a human garrohs, plain and simple, even his coin fished at dalaran shows what an arrogant S-O-B he is.
just so we know, Sylvannas is nice to other forsaken and even blood-elves, but a tottal ice-queen b1tch to most other folk (I really hated her when she said "I though he'd never shut up" to that poor orc that dies on the pit of saron, if this is how she treats the rest of the horde, then I'm done trying to defend her)
so yhea, the worgen will be the dark faction of the alliance.
they really have a lot in common with the forsaken.
both races were afflicted with a curse they didn't deserved, or wanted.
both races are led by a supremacist leader that believes every other civilization to be beneath their own.
both races have a bunch of chemists in labs trying to develop some brew, in the case of the forsaken it's poisons, a cure for undeath, (they managed to create a cure for the earliest stages of undead) and formerly the blight (as of 3.3 all blight production and research is over, by decree of the warchief)
in the case of the worgen it's a cure for their curse, and who knows, maybe something else those mad scientists are cooking on their pots.
so yhea, both races have a lot in common, and will end up as the "dark race" on their respective faction, I wound't be surprised if a "reverse wrath-gate" happens on cataclysm, that is...... some worgen sub-leader goes nut-job sides with some bad-guy ends up doing damage to both alliance and horde, and so, worgen end up just as the forsaken, wich is under house arrest.
of course this is all speculation, we sadly can only wait and see, nothing more nothing less.
I wish they could at least show the models for female worgen, I wanna see those foxies (no pun intended)
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Lose the "My way or the highway" attitude.
huh? what I said was my opinion on the subject, wich of course it's based off merely on observation.
all we've seen on grenn it's
A-hole.
Selfish
Supremacist
and a true leader to his people, he loves them, and pretty much gives a damn about anyone else.
just because he's nice to other worgen doesn't mean he will be nice to other races, after all sylvannas is a cruel witch and I now dislike her quite a lot, but she treats the other forsaken nicer than the rest of the horde.
so yhea, she's an evil witch, she cares about her people, but it's still quite dark and evil witch noneteless.
same can be said about grenn. he cares about his own, and gives a damn about the rest, I mean he didn't built that wall and separated from the alliance just because it would look cool.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Until Icecrown, Sylvanas was one of your favorite characters
hold your horses barnaby jones, where-o-where in the past I said I love sylvannas?
I said I pity her, and that she's suffered more than anyone else, that I sort of felt simpaty for her, but nowhere ever at all did I said that she's my favorite, or even close to being a favorite.
at best she was in the "not hated" category.
I stated on my first post on this web-site that I considered forsaken to be the "black sheep" of the horde, and that to me the true horde was Orc+tauren+troll, and "company".
just so we're clear.
Until I see Genn ruin his second chance, I will continue to admire him and the Worgen race.
I read Beyond the Dark Portal, he is quite tolerable when things are ok.
well, you're allowed to speculate and out of nowhere say that he's gonna be cool, but nobody else can say otherwise? humm...
and BTW I read beyond the dark portal, and also Day of the Dragon, and more, he IS a tottal A-HOLE, hell he even almost came to a fist fight with daelin proudmoore in terena's own halls.
the dude it's egocentric, and narcisist to the extreme, he believes that everything is below guilneas, not for nothing he was the last member to join the alliance, and the first one to leave.
so far he's done nothing to hint at becoming a better guy.
sure he saves the player worgen from execution, but that's because he genuely loves his kingdom, that much is true and none can deny it, but we've so far to see any sort of interaction from him and the outside world.
besides, any leader can be tolerable when things are ok, it's when the crap hits the fan when u can tell the diference between a true leader, and just a guy with a gun/sword.
peace is ez, war is not.
And no, Sylvanas does not care about her people. She killed a innocent man to find a plague that kills life and Scourge,
BUT NOT FORSAKEN!.
exactly, thanks for making my point clear.
just so we're clear here, by "her people" I am talking about the forsaken, so far she's never been a bad leader to her people. quite the oposite, they revere her, they adore her, and they follow her with admiration.
no other race admires their leader more than the forsaken does.
when do you hear humans saying "may varian wathc over you".
or an orc saying "long live thrall"
or even a night-elf saying "by tyrande".
none, no race loves their leader more than the forsaken.
wich is why they greet people with "may the dark lady watch over you" and bid you farewell with "Victory for Sylvannas".
on that very quote you said you proved how much she cared for her people.
if she didn't gave a rat's ass about the forsaken, then why did she demanded that the blight is lethal to humans+scourge but not forsaken? why protect them if she doesn't care for them?
the reason is.... she does cares for them.
but she's still quite evil, her actions on pit of saron reduced my level of respect of her by quite a lot (though she gained a small bit of that respect when I saw her soloing 7kk of the lich king's health on halls of reflection O_O dang)
same can be said about green
whoops, typo, I meant grenn. I corrected it already
Post by
451455
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Post by
Adamsm
He did? Wow, I really got to read The Adventures of Captain Sue one of these days.
You should, other wise your missing out on pieces of the lore... hell, if all you do is read the recap on wowwiki, you'll understand it. Seriously, your expecting way too much out of Graymane.... he's always been a bigot and will continue to do so; I doubt he'll be too happy with these elf folks, with the hooved people, with the short people or the rest. Yes, he'll accept their help.. but he'll still make jokes and insult them behind their backs.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
taurenmoo812
He did? Wow, I really got to read The Adventures of Captain Sue one of these days.
Ok dark, this pretty much wraps you up in a nutshell. Not only are you claiming you have a better understanding of the lore then most, but when someone who genuinely does have a better understanding of it confronts you on a certain subject you throw in some random insult or cheap piece of sarcasm.
I'm not gonna turn this into another flame war either, since I have a solid respect for Rankkor and Adams knowledge of the lore and are broad minded in what they say. You'd do well to acknowledge that.
Again, Greymane is
Innocent until prove guilty
See now, you've never used that stance when it comes to the horde, so why should it be applied to an alliance character too?
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
You think he will hate the elf folks? Is that why they are ancient allies fighting side-by-side?
Yeah, he might insult the space goats, but I'm sure they have gotten used to it by now.No, the Worgen and the Night Elves are Ancient allies.... not the Humans they are normally. But, like I said, Graymane was one of the big ones who called for the breaking of the Alliance after the Second War. I'm hoping he's changed, but I doubt were going to see some big 180 off of him... it would be like Sylvanas suddenly turning around and loving kittens and puppies instead of eating them.
Post by
taurenmoo812
Find your hobby Taruen.
I didn't say I understood anything about Day of the Dragon, and I have never read it, and never claimed otherwise. Seriously, I didn't do anything wrong, I was just putting up a little joke. If your that immune to not trolling, then go hang out in the randomness fourms,
Really I don't give a crap anymore. But the least you could do is respect ones like Adam and Rankkor who know what their talking about on there respected subjects, instead of doing your step by step rip apart trolling for there posts.
And just for the record, I think your trying to dismiss the idea that Greymane could be the alliances version of sylvanas, showing bigotry to all those except his own.
If your talking about Sylvanas, then its because she has been doing evil and dark things for what will soon be her 7th aniversery.
Everything ever made about her just makes her look worse and worse
Oh nonono, you do it for every aspect of the horde, not just sylvanas. Every other thread attests to that
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
hold your horses barnaby jones
it's an expression, haven't you seen the movie "turboman"?
Ironicly, this makes her your #6 favorite character, and Genn is my #6 favorite...
I said she's my favorite villian, I even compared her with Sarah Kerrigan, I'm gonna go ahead and asume you've never played Starcraft, so I'll just give a small recap.
she was a hero, she was turned into that wich she hated the most.
she loved being that thing, and became the self-styled "Queen B1tch of the universe"
in that regard yhea she stands out as a favorite of mine, but there is a diference from favorite to say "I like her, she's a true example and we should follow her actions and be like her"
she's far from what I expect of a horde leader, she has a lot of learning to do, hopefully being under house arrest under surveillance of Overlord Bragor Bloodfist from 3.3 to 4.0.1 will give her some perspective (though I highly doubt it)
but you came out and said things are going to happen just like how you think they are.
o_O oh really?
funny, at the end of my post is this cute line
of course this is all
SPECULATION
, we sadly can only wait and see, nothing more nothing less.
you may wanna read better before issuing a judgement, it's getting annoying.
He did? Wow, I really got to read The Adventures of Captain Sue one of these days.
just because the protagonist sucks, doesn't mean the book is bad, it's a highly enjoyable read, (though war of the ancients is MUCH better)
again as addams and tauren said, if you don't have your lore sources complete, then the wise thing to do is hush hush.
on lore, paper, games, and everything with words that is established as cannon genn is a scumbag, and nothing hints that this has changed.
Yeah... because the Forsaken are thier own coliction, not their own race. Not every undead loves Sylvanas.
bet your ass every single forsaken inside undercity loves her (save for...... you know the ones that made the coup, and those who have left the UC to join the argent crusade) but yhea those who are still forsaken living on the Undercity love sylvannas to the extreme.
if they do, then why do you think that is?
Its kind of hard to explain.
well do a better job or drop the issue, sylvannas does cares for her people. and they love her, unquestionably, till death.
if you don't have any evidence to counter this, of if you can't properly explain why is she a bad leader then just do the right thing, and let it go.
I belive she was down to about 202K out of over 5000K at that point, so its not really that impressive
still dude, soloing 7kk of the lich king is no small feat, and on that note I believe the same kudos should be given to jaina for performing the same feat
check the lore before trying to say what genn is and what he's not.
all lore says he's Garrosh+Garithos+a small touch of abbendis.
Post by
Rankkor
Again, Greymane is Innocent until prove guilty
hehe funny, you say that about him.
but when I made that post about the changes on the UC comming patch 3.3 even when all evidence pointed out that the forsaken had stopped developing blight, due to the kor'kron being there all you said was.
"guilty till proven otherwise"
I smell hypocresy
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
check the lore before trying to say what genn is and what he's not.
all lore says he's Garrosh+Garithos+a small touch of abbendis.
You may be confusing lore with your personal opinion.Not in that case. Genn is up there with Garthios when it come to the 'lesser races'.
Post by
Rankkor
check the lore before trying to say what genn is and what he's not.
all lore says he's Garrosh+Garithos+a small touch of abbendis.
You may be confusing lore with your personal opinion.Not in that case. Genn is up there with Garthios when it come to the 'lesser races'.
amen
we may disagree with several thing (and by several I mean 99.99%)
but as far as genn goes, this is not personal, this is not speculated, this is an unchangeable universal stone-written truth.
genn is an Ass. simple as that, a tottally bad man, a complete and absolute jerk, who is kinda worst than garithos, because at least garithos didn't berated other humans.
genn will not only believe that non-humans are inferior, he believes that humans who are non-gilneans are also inferior.
And him saving the player's life is what I am going to let him have a second chance from.
and again and again and again and again and again just because he's nice to his own people doesn't mean jack.
another universal truth bout him is that he is almost obsessed with his own kin, to the point that he really loves A LOT LOT LOT LOT LOT every single gilnean, EVERY ONE.
to the point that every gilnean dead hurts him a lot, he would do anything to save his own people, even swallow his pride and rejoin the alliance rather than face anihilation.
just because he's cool with his own doesn't make him a nice guy.
again as an example sylvannas may be cool wiht her own people, but that won't make her a nice gal.
she's creepy, T_T how could she say "he finnaly shut up" when that orc died? that's just mean.
And I think most NPCs are proud of thier respective leaders, last time I checked.
ohh they are, they really are, but not as much as the forsaken, as they don't mention their leaders in their hello/good-bye quotes.
no race on horde or alliance does it, exept for the forsaken, that just shows how much they love their evil hag.
Keep in mind that they just say "Dark Lady watch over you" or "Victory or SYlvanas" because they have to.
the point remains that they talk about her all the time, and exalt her name everywhere, they woudn't do so if she wasn't loved by her subjects.
and that's the gospel truth
I never played Starcraft, to start things off.
you really should, even more now that part 2 is near to be released, I swear every blizz game it's epic.
warcraft+diablo+starcraft=must have.
if u haven't played them, I highly advice you to do so, at the very least you won't regret it.
after all my all time favorite blizzard character (Zeratul) and my second all time videogame character (zeratul) is from starcraft.
the game is awesomeness in a stick
Post by
Skreeran
(and by several I mean 99.99% that is repeating of course)99.99...% is 100%.
Do you disagree with 100% of what he says? :P
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