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10.2.7
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FG/Ember EZ-Mode could be coming back
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Post by
asakawa
it's been like that for a little while now. it's one of those things that is great on paper but i know that i couldn't get enough out of those 6 seconds to beat GoImmo's constant passive increase. i should possibly add a note in the FAQ about it.
the theory is that it gives you the ability to have IA cooldown and get used again, along with 2 extra SB casts but in my experience i barely get a couple of ticks of IA in and those 2 casts just aren't enough.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
...just to add that as simcraft gets refined with the changes in mind it looks like meta is gaining a little more. equalling desto almost exactly at T9 BiS gear level.
Post by
413955
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
as i said:
also, i wonder how much haste you would need to start having issues with refreshing corruption with haunt.
at the minute haunt has an 8 seond cooldown and 12 second duration. corruption has an 18 second duration so there should never be a problem. 700haste from gear, then eradication proc and
then
a heroism proc as corruption gets refreshed... will we actually end end having corruption drop off before haunt hits it's target?
btw, nightfall procs are, and i'm sure will remain, largely insignificant.
Post by
olgamaster
Would this then cause an artificial haste cap or gray area, as in I can't have x amount to x amount of haste because I will then be required to recast corruption due to out-ticking haunt's refresh?
As long as we're staying up close for affliction (which we should be doing on fights that matter, when we can), we should be able to adjust when we recast haunt to keep corruption up. I'm not sure on this as I haven't done any definite math, but it doesn't look like you can get corruption anywhere near levels where it would get a duration of <8 seconds. That being said, under a vast, vast majority of circumstances, casting haunt at your normal time will keep it up and you shouldn't have to make very much adjustment to when you cast haunt to maintain corruption on the target.
And yes, nightfall procs are insignificant, considering that nightfall is basically a 4% chance every 3 seconds (less once we get the new glyph, obviously) to give you around 60% haste on your next shadowbolt, considering that shadowbolt's base cast time is 2.5 seconds and the GCD required to cast it is at 1.5 seconds base. Take that 4% chance every 3 seconds and it ends up being a phenominally low amount of average haste to a single spell.
and in regards to wowtheorycraft wondering if it will be a dps increase over any other of affliction's current glyph options - it most definately will. Corruption right now is our second largest portion of our damage, and by a not-insignificant option. The glyph essentially boost it by
at least
20-30% over the course of a fight, and no other glyph comes close to increasing the damage of any one ability by that much. The only glyph I can imagine coming close to beating it (and probably might) is glyph of haunt. Like Asakawa said, its safe to say that glyph of corruption will replace glyph of CoA until they convert GoCorr into a talent like they said they might.
Post by
asakawa
well, take the situation i was hypothesising.
700 haste (~20%) + eradication + hero/BL
assuming a little about the way the maths works (i'm sure it'll be the same as channelled spells) we would have something like:
0.8 * 0.8 * 0.7 * 18 = 8.064 seconds
(all a bit more "napkin math"y than i like but i don't think it's built on too many assumptions)
i don't think it's out of the question that you may see some random corruption drops when buffs start to stack. trinket procs could exacerbate things also.
Post by
olgamaster
True, but I don't think that it would happen enough to impact the glyph's dps benefits in any significant way. If we're *really* lucky with eradication procs, it might happen twice within a given fight.
Your mentioning eradication also reminded me about eradication itself and the effect of the glyph on it. Since the glyph will make corruption tick more, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that it'll increase eradication uptime as well? Could this impact the importance of haste to affliction locks in any way?
Post by
413955
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
asakawa
True, but I don't think that it would happen enough to impact the glyph's dps benefits in any significant way. If we're *really* lucky with eradication procs, it might happen twice within a given fight.
Your mentioning eradication also reminded me about eradication itself and the effect of the glyph on it. Since the glyph will make corruption tick more, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that it'll increase eradication uptime as well? Could this impact the importance of haste to affliction locks in any way?
oh sure, it won't devalue anything but it's something that we're going to have to look out for an be aware of, during hero/BL especially. if anyone's got to the point where they've stopped even tracking corruption because it's so safe to assume it's uptime, it might be time to start getting used to following it again ^_^
i'm sure it will quickly become one of those things that really p***es us off, like dropping the perfect weave on soul fires or messing up combo points on your cat and screwing up rip uptime.
eradication went through a few iterations at first with it's internal cooldown. anyone remember, did it end up just getting it's internal cooldown removed in the end? i'm pretty sure it did and if so then, you're right, this glyph could have an interesting secondary impact.
Post by
olgamaster
About your haste mechanics...they didn't seem
quite
right to me, so I did some of my own napkin math and...
With 20% haste from gear, 30% from heroism, and 20% from eradication, it'd be (1/(1.3*1.2)) - which is about .641% cast speed - haste from your gear is applied
separately
from your haste from outside buffs. Haste rating from gear stacks additively with itself, while haste rating from other sources stacks multiplicatively with haste from gear. You'd end up with .641*.8*18= a ~9.2 second corruption
That would still barely get refreshed, if at all, if you were standing at point blank range and cast haunt the microsecond it came off cooldown. But based on personal experience, the refresh on corruption from everlasting affliction has a .5-1 second delay on it, so it's safe to assume that it wouldn't get refreshed anyway. Seeing as those numbers are relatively easy to obtain in a raid environment, especially since we didn't include wrath of air totem or moonkin aura/ret pally aura in any of this, I'd like to see blizzard implement some solution to this potential problem. With increased eradication uptime outside of heroism with the glyph, uptime will be even higher
during
heroism when corruption is ticking even more often. And considering that heroism is 40 seconds, and the cooldown of haunt is 8 seconds, that means that just one eradication proc during heroism will result in us having to recast corruption up to
three
times in the duration of the proc (the first corruption cast ends at 9 seconds with 12 seconds left on eradication, the next corruption ends at 18 seconds with 2 seconds left, then the last one is recast while still under the effects of eradication and the haste on it remains even after eradication expires, resulting in one last reapplication). If we happen to get two eradication procs, the potential number of refreshes during a heroism goes up to
six
. The everlasting affliction problem didn't look too big at first glance, but now that I'm thinking about it, this is something that blizz is going to have to remedy in some way or another if they want to implement this glyph.
The simplest solution I can come up with is to reduce the cooldown on haunt and bump its damage up a little bit to make up for the fact that we'd otherwise be casting a weaker damage spell instead of a shadowbolt, and make it a more frequently cast part of the affliction rotation.
edit: looking at the new 4pt10 (15% chance on UA damage to give you 12% haste for 10 seconds), and including 3% haste raid buff and WoA totem with eradication up all at the same time, and 20% haste from gear, you get a 0.687*.8*18 = 9.8928 second corruption, which means that we'd need to remain very close up to the boss and use haunt on cooldown to not have to manually refresh corruption. With heroism in the picture, the 4pt10 makes it a 7.6176 second corruption, which puts us into the realm of physical impossibility to refresh. Yep, something's gonna have to change with haunt or everlasting affliction to make this work.
Post by
asakawa
much better maths, thanks for that.
since its currently a total none-issue to refresh corruption i don't really see any reason why everlasting affliction couldn't be changed to be triggered by SB as well as haunt... unless i'm missing a PvP implication of something like that (very possible).
Post by
413955
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
abulurd
speaking as an affliction pvper i dont think it would mess up having sb proc it like haunt and with the glyph it might be needed
Post by
olgamaster
Yeah, changing it so that shadowbolt refreshes corr instead of haunt seems like a much better idea than what I suggested before. I'm not sure why I didn't automatically jump to that.
Now for some wishful thinking. What if they changed drain soul to be our primary filler, like mind flay is to priests, and gave it a chance to crit, lower its duration to ~5 seconds, and make it tick every second instead of every 3? We could spec out of destro completely - 15+ points for one single spell is an awful lot - and put those points into demo instead. Then they could just change drain soul to trigger everlasting affliction, and we wouldn't have to change our rotation when we get to <25% range because we'd be casting it anyway. In no way do I ever expect any change like that to be implemented, but I sort of wish affliction had more channeled spells in its rotation than just in execute range.
We'd have a different nuke for each of our three specs - affliction would have DS, demo would have shadowbolt, and destro would have incin. It isn't THAT far out there as an idea, but would require some major redesigning on blizzard's end. Maybe for cata...
Post by
olgamaster
It'd be nice if we could move the discussion on haste and corruption to a thread of its own, so kindly created
here
by karlusdavius. It already derailed this thread and it'd be easier to find for people interested if we simply used a thread dedicated to it.
Post by
asakawa
...just to add that as simcraft gets refined with the changes in mind it looks like meta is gaining a little more. equalling desto almost exactly at T9 BiS gear level.
latest numbers:
meta/ruin = 10440
FG/ember = 10091
imp/conflag = 10060 (this is a surprise)
destro(not capped) = 10005
destro(capped) = 9963
aff(FH) = 9628
aff(succubus) = 9338
source
this is still before we've had chance to see the proposed corruption haste glyph so don't rule out affliction just yet. i hope these figures don't make blizz feel they've taken demo too far.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Kangi
latest numbers:
meta/ruin = 10440
FG/ember = 10091
imp/conflag = 10060 (this is a surprise)
destro(not capped) = 10005
destro(capped) = 9963
aff(FH) = 9628
aff(succubus) = 9338
source
0/40/31 is above Destruction now? Wow.
Also, looks like the Felhunter is indeed making a comeback.
Post by
356172
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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