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10.2.5
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10.2.6
Let's talk about seat belt laws
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Having a serious injury (Lets say spinal) Is more often worse than death.
I'm going to assume you haven't had a serious spinal injury.
Call me cruel but its expensive (if you think on a greater scale of how manyy people would be in that situation)
You actually think expense has anything to do with whether dying is better than living?
and.. if you are paralyzed waist down (or neck down) there is almost NO quality of life in most cases.
So quality of life is determined by physical mobility?
Then take in the possibility that a friend/family member dies and you live. And you were the driver. That would be an intense amount of guilt.
So you're an advocate of grief-driven suicide?
Post by
TheMediator
I'm going to assume you haven't had a serious spinal injury.
And you have?
So quality of life is determined by physical mobility?
Yes, if you think that the inability of someone to use their legs doesn't effect their mental health, you're far more stupid than I believe you are.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I'm going to assume you haven't had a serious spinal injury.
And you have?
Nope, which is why you'll notice I didn't make any statements on the issue. Stop attacking me for the sake of attacking me.
So quality of life is determined by physical mobility?
Yes, if you think that the inability of someone to use their legs doesn't effect their mental health, you're far more stupid than I believe you are.
A personal attack, an unfounded statement, and a discriminatory jab all in one sentence.
I know 5 people who paralyzed from the waist down, and none of them have the slightest problem with their mental health. I also know another lady who is missing an arm and most of her leg--again, perfect mental health.
Post by
TheMediator
I know 5 people who paralyzed from the waist down, and none of them have the slightest problem with their mental health. I also know another lady who is missing an arm and most of her leg--again, perfect mental health.
Are you a psychiatrist? I don't think you're qualified to make statements about the mental health of those people. Though they may appear fine, you cannot say whether or not they are mentally healthy. You know, a number of patients in psyche wards appear mentally healthy, but that doesn't mean they should be let out on the streets.
Post by
Skyfire
Presumably a reply to my reply to IronGolem? I'm going to start from the bottom and work my way up.
The problem nowadays is that cars are becoming safer. Making the chances of survival without a seatbelt greater.
An airbag hitting an unrestrained person wont kill them, but it will cause severe damage.
Life is worth living, for whatever reason. It's that simple. If you don't agree, go try out suicide and tell me how that works. Your logic just doesn't work given that you're a rational (sane) person.
Then take in the possibility that a friend/family member dies and you live. And you were the driver. That would be an intense amount of guilt.
As for guilt, that's part of life... which is worth living.
Call me cruel but its expensive (if you think on a greater scale of how manyy people would be in that situation) and.. if you are paralyzed waist down (or neck down) there is almost NO quality of life in most cases.
Losing your life is the highest price, to pay, wouldn't you agree? I think it pertinent, of course, to make the distinction between "losing" your life and "giving" your life: The former is where you have little to no control over the situation, while the latter is where you do have control, and you are judged rational by those you love.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I know 5 people who paralyzed from the waist down, and none of them have the slightest problem with their mental health. I also know another lady who is missing an arm and most of her leg--again, perfect mental health.
Are you a psychiatrist? I don't think you're qualified to make statements about the mental health of those people.
Actually I am qualified. Why? Because I know them. You don't.
You preach on and on about logic and only saying things you know, then you turn around and say people who don't have use of their legs are not mentally healthy.
Post by
129077
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
I know 5 people who paralyzed from the waist down, and none of them have the slightest problem with their mental health. I also know another lady who is missing an arm and most of her leg--again, perfect mental health.
Are you a psychiatrist? I don't think you're qualified to make statements about the mental health of those people.
Actually I am qualified. Why? Because I know them. You don't.
You preach on and on about logic and only saying things you know, then you turn around and say people who don't have use of their legs are not mentally healthy.
No, you are not qualified. You are LESS qualified because you know them, since you have a personal bias to see the better in them.
Life is worth living, for whatever reason
Not in all cases. You're irrational if you believe that no matter what one should strive to stay alive. If you believe in Heaven, then you believe death will take you to eternal paradise - you're being totally irrational if you would choose long consistent pain for years instead of immediately reaching the statement of eternal happiness. If you don't believe in Heaven, then you'd realize you have one life and would want to live as long as your life would be happy, so at the choice of immediately ending a life that was otherwise happy, or continuing to live and dragging down your overall happiness of your life, you should choose death.
If you really believed that death is always the wrong choice, then one would see what Jesus did not as a heroic sacrifice, but an irrational decision, since ending the suffering of humanity wasn't worth dying for (assuming you believe that Jesus saved humanity of its sins, otherwise you'd just see Jesus as a loon).
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
It may not be every situation.
Therefore am I not right is saying that physical mobility is
not
the standard
for quality of life.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Actually I am qualified. Why? Because I know them. You don't.
You preach on and on about logic and only saying things you know, then you turn around and say people who don't have use of their legs are not mentally healthy.
No, you are not qualified. You are LESS qualified because you know them, since you have a personal bias to see the better in them.
You continue to baffle me.
8 years ago my Grandfather had a stroke that paralyzed the entire left side of his body. I can say with 100% certitude that he is just as mentally stable as he was before accident. You can't say it with any certitude at all--yet you did.
I'm even more qualified than his doctor to pass judgment on this, you know why? Because I knew him before the stroke, the doctor didn't.
Trauma
can
cause mental problems, yes. That does not mean that paralysis
necessarily
causes them.
Post by
TheMediator
Trauma can cause mental problems, yes. That does not mean that paralysis necessarily causes them.
I'd wager that more often than not it does. Also, just because he "seems" fine doesn't mean he is. Only with psychoanalysis can one really get a picture of what's going on in a person's mind, and even then, psychoanalysis isn't perfect.
Again, you are not qualified to pass judgment. You can't just say you are and make it so.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I'd wager that more often than not it does.
Instead of wagering why don't you provide evidence?
And "more often than not" is a far cry from "if you think that the inability of someone to use their legs doesn't effect their mental health, you're far more stupid than I believe you are."
Also, just because he "seems" fine doesn't mean he is.
I never said he seemed fine. I said he is.
Only with psychoanalysis can one really get a picture of what's going on in a person's mind, and even then, psychoanalysis isn't perfect.
Nope. You know who else can see what's going on in a person's mind? The person himself.
Again, you are not qualified to pass judgment. You can't just say you are and make it so.
I'm more qualified than you. Therefore my judgment is more qualified than yours.
Post by
148723
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skyfire
Life is worth living, for whatever reason
If you believe in Heaven, then you believe death will take you to eternal paradise - you're being totally irrational if you would choose long consistent pain for years instead of immediately reaching the statement of eternal happiness.
Who says people who believe in Heaven are completely rational (I'm noting also, of course, that I do not identify with theism)? ^^
If you don't believe in Heaven, then you'd realize you have one life and would want to live as long as your life would be happy, so at the choice of immediately ending a life that was otherwise happy, or continuing to live and dragging down your overall happiness of your life, you should choose death.
This comes as slightly out of context, as I make the later note that I wouldn't want to be deprived of my "happiness" by another without my consent, an ideal shared by those who founded America, I'll note.
Aside from that, your out-of-context point brings up the point that it's really down to the people. I'd guess that the logic of people who think "I'll drive faster because I'm safer" wouldn't change any were seatbelts not to be mandatory. It would still be "I'll drive faster, because I can". Really, that's what it comes down to: whether you're a poor driver or not.
As I've said before, I'll take a thousand cripple for life over one death.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Life is worth living, for whatever reason
If you believe in Heaven, then you believe death will take you to eternal paradise - you're being totally irrational if you would choose long consistent pain for years instead of immediately reaching the statement of eternal happiness.
Who says people who believe in Heaven are completely rational (I'm noting also, of course, that I do not identify with theism)? ^^
Or instead of saying we're not rational you could point to the fact we believe that life is a gift, therefore committing suicide to escape it won't get you to heaven.
Post by
302110
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
TheMediator
Life is worth living, for whatever reason
If you believe in Heaven, then you believe death will take you to eternal paradise - you're being totally irrational if you would choose long consistent pain for years instead of immediately reaching the statement of eternal happiness.
Who says people who believe in Heaven are completely rational (I'm noting also, of course, that I do not identify with theism)? ^^
Or instead of saying we're not rational you could point to the fact we believe that life is a gift, therefore committing suicide to escape it won't get you to heaven.
Who said anything about committing suicide? Also, I see a huge logic gap between declining a gift and eternal punishment. Would you beat your child for the rest of his life for not accepting coals from Santa? That would only be an unmeasurable fraction of the cruelty that damning for an eternity would be. I guess you support beating children.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Who said anything about committing suicide? Also, I see a huge logic gap between declining a gift and eternal punishment. Would you beat your child for the rest of his life for not accepting coals from Santa? That would only be in unmeasurable fraction of the cruelty that damning for an eternity would be.
I guess you support beating children
.
Yes, if you think that the inability of someone to use their legs doesn't effect their mental health,
you're far more stupid than I believe you are
.
I'm pretty fed up with your refusal to put any thought into what I'm saying and your persistent need to insult people to make a point. Whether your point is true or not, people won't be drawn to it by insults.
As far as suicide goes, you said "you're being totally irrational if you would
choose
long consistent pain for years instead of immediately reaching the statement of eternal happiness."
If there is a choice involved, and the end is the killing of oneself, then it's suicide.
Post by
TheMediator
Actually, insulting you seems to have more success than logic. You aren't skeptical of your own beliefs, so the only way to get your head out of the clouds is to insult you.
If there is a choice involved, and the end is the killing of oneself, then it's suicide.
Jesus committed suicide. Good job.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Actually, insulting you seems to have more success than logic. You aren't skeptical of your own beliefs, so the only way to get your head out of the clouds is to insult you.
I'm plenty skeptical of my beliefs. I'm even more skeptical of yours, if the only way of defending them is through insults.
If there is a choice involved, and the
end
is the killing of oneself, then it's suicide.
Jesus committed suicide. Good job.
End. Look it up.
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