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Rogue 3.3 = OP
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Post by
229615
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177591
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265739
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Post by
Modibybob
It just seems like rouges only get buffed and never nerfed.
Look at your sentence...carefully.
Now slap yourself. Firstly for spelling ROGUE wrong, and second for saying we never get nerfed.
Post by
368348
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Post by
DeathBlood
My argument was never that Rogue is the least common class in WoW. My argument was that it is the least played. There's a difference. If you look at Census data, you'll see that Rogues are the 7th most common, ahead of Priests, Warlocks, and lastly Shamans.
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/census.php
Which further proves my point that Rogues are underpowered now compared to other classes.
So if the Rogue class is 7th most common and this shows their underpowered-ness, then if Warlocks are behind Rogues in the list of most to least common classes(as you mention above), then Warlocks must be even lower down the power scale the Rogues.
If we are to believe Open (and I don't completely disagree that Destro-burst is Woah!) that Warlocks are infact OP, then wouldn't that make Rogues even more OP :-P
Wow people are really failing to understand both the Census and the Class Activity. If you take my quote out of context, it looks like I said Rogues are underpowered because they're the 7th most common, which is completely untrue. If you read the rest of my post, I compared that figure to the activity figure.
In short:
Rogues, 7th most common, 10th most played= means many people have Rogues, but few are playing them. (May be for various reasons, but one being they feel they are underpowered)
Warlocks, 8th most common, tied for 6th most played= means people with Warlocks are playing them slightly more often than other classes.
I compared how common Rogues were to how often they were being played, and concluded that many players felt Rogues were underpowered, since few people are playing them. That is all.
On a side note, not to take away from the OP, but I agree with Open that Desto Locks are OP right now.
Post by
DeathBlood
1) Fan of Knives: The damage done by this ability has been reduced by 30%.
2) Throwing Specialization: This talent no longer causes Fan of Knives to interrupt spellcasting.
3) Honor Among Thieves: A 1-second cooldown is now enforced on how often a rogue can gain combo points from his party via this talent.
Those abilities were nerfed as they were much stronger than intended, and the hat nerf is misleading, I believe that's a 1 second cd per player per second in your party, so 5 cp a second can be gained.
Please don't misquote me. And I agree that FoK and Throwing Specialization were stronger than intended, but HaT? Really? Subtlety Rogues laughed at that nerf, it wasn't like they were topping the damage charts. Why need it? And btw I'm pretty sure you can only get 1cp per second, not 5cp per second still like you suggested.
Post by
307694
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Post by
DeathBlood
The issue with this fix is not vanish working properly.. it's that they're making vanish work better then intended to make up for their lack of ability to make it work as intended.
Working as intended - Any targetted attacks on rogue would not break vanish but rogue could be immediately taken out of stealth by any non targetted attacks.
Working better then intended - 1 second immunity to being taken out of stun from all sources, including those that should rightfully take the rogue out of stun(aoe attacks, dots).
I would love for vanish to work as intended, but it will be working much better then intended, because those dots may end up taking another 2-3 seconds to knock the rogue out as opposed to immediately knocking him out, and an aoe might be ranged by the rogue where beforehand he'd be knocked out by it.
Instead of complaining, do you have any ideas to better correct it? Blizzard is aware of the balance you outlined. Taken from the Q&A Rogue series from August 3rd, 2009, Blizzard responds to the Vanish question:
Q. Vanish, as you know, is one of the class’s staple abilities that sets it apart from other classes. However, there are times when Vanish doesn’t execute quite as the rogue intends, especially when they vanish right in the middle of some kind of enemy channeling spell or when a class sends their pet after the rogue “mid-vanish.” Do we feel that, in its current rendition, Vanish is working properly in this respect? What variables should be considered when Rogues decide to utilize Vanish to avoid it being negated?
A: No, Vanish isn’t working properly and breaks when you breathe on the rogue funny. There are two problems with fixing it. One is that technically it’s just not easy. We would need to change the ways spells are resolved on the server side. Now that is something we can do, but the outcome would be taking a powerful ability and making it more powerful. We need to solve the frustration part of the ability, but not also greatly buff rogue survivability or damage potential when doing it. The solution we like the most is something like Vanish puts you in stealth for 1 second minimum no matter what else happens.
The 1-second immunity to damage when Vanishing was foreseeable 2 months ago.
Is it fair? Yes, considering Rogues have had to put up with being pulled out of stealth by an auto-attack for years now. Good job outskilling us.
Yes, it does make Rogues a little stronger than before. Does it make us OP? Certainly not, which was the topic of this thread. You'll have to use your brain a little more now when facing a Rogue, in guessing where he's going to be 1.1 seconds after a Vanish.
Dots will still catch us, or if we Cloak of Shadows, bleeds we still catch us. It's not that big of a deal.
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49871
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449558
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115964
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Post by
xcrunr1647
Rogue 3.3 = OP
no
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150529
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281980
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Post by
spcmack
Wall of text to follow, i think most of the arguments are valid though.
Rogues are the games current punching bag. There is no class i find easier to kill as a hunter. im sure most classes agree. im not sure how i feel about fixing vanish yet though. last year when my rogue was my main i never had problems with vanish the way it was. it seems like maybe too many rogues werent happy with popping cloak of shadows at the same time, or something. personally though, rogues are the only reason i pvp with a cat pet, I intentionally chose a pet that inflicts bleed damage, that can not be cleared by cloak of shadows, i dont think giving you 1 second of extra time before my bleeds pop you out is too much to ask, but perhaps giving you 3.5 because you got lucky on your timing and hit it right before my bleed ticks is. lets give the PTR a chance to kick it around for a while. After all, rogues currently have less survivability than any other class in the game, sadly including enhancement shamans. They are much more glass these days, than cannon.
if it is obvious that rogues are simply dropping the BC combo of
cheap shot, smash face smash face smash face, kidney shot, smash face smash face smash face smash face smash face, vanish, cheap shot, smash face smash face smash face (why are you still alive dude? ive been smashing your face for 12 seconds with one of the premier dps dealers in the game) smash face evasion (maybe now is a good time to pop flurry too?) smash face for another 5 seconds or so....DIE...
then it MIGHT be time to worry...maybe a pre-emptive strike by putting a 5 second NO CHEAPSHOT debuff after applying vanish, so it HAS to be used defensively (which is the primary reason rogues use to argue that it needed to be fixed), instead of just using it to reset their damage rotation.
as it stands though...im dusting off my rogue tonight, and leveling him from 70-80 in anticipation of 6 months of fun before they get nerfed into the ground again...
There is a reason that rogues are the least played class in the game right now, its because they were made so feeble in 3.0 that it made no sense to play them. Rogues didnt just "switch" to dk, they started dks as an alternative to quitting the game.
go play a lock.....i am not saying rogues are OP,i am saying that locks are UP when fighting rogues.
...so your class is the only class that considers it "trivial" to down a prot holy pali over 30k hp...and your concerned ONE class beats you in the order of 50/50...
You sir are the reason the classes will never be balanced.
Locks dominate in arenas. The way the damage/healing is balanced right now, if you stack enough stamina, your exceptionally hard to kill when your being healed, and if someone targets your healer, you just blow them up with chaos/confalg/immolate. go qq about rogues in the lock forums where you belong.
Myself? I think ill skip playing a 5 button class.
Post by
Overhaul
The only OP thing on the game are OP players, so maybe we should even out the playing field by making it so the player no longer plays the character? Maybe have a bot play for us and get us gear while at it? Then all would be fair.
Every now and then I feel I am a god at PvP, then comes a player who out skills me and facerolls me and knocks me off my high horse. It isn't the classes that are OP, it is the players that suck. I have lost against shaman, rogues, paladins, hunters, dks, you name it. It happens every time I am on my high horse and go challenge people outside org. I will be facerolling players and then challenge a player who is usually secluded and keeping to themself and I get facerolled.
I am a prot paladin and consider myself one of the better players in that ik how to gear for PvP and can faceroll the average Joe on my 5000ms satellite connection. Yet there had been times when I take my rare trip to a friend’s house and play with 0 lag and get facerolled by a player who you normally never see because the truly skilled players don't show off their skills unless you are on your high horse and challenge them outside Org or SW, or are unlucky enough to encounter them in their rare trips into a BG.
When you get skilled, you can tell when you run into a truly skilled player. Often times they use abilities the average player of that class doesn't use, has geared and speced appropriately, and knows how to kite or hit BEHIND the player. Too often I this stand in front of an enemy player and lol as they hit at the front of me. Skill can often overcome a class’s OP moves. It only really matters in arena, when a skilled player with an OP move makes a big difference, especially while it takes players time to adapt to a new style of fighting since the old tricks don't work.
Post by
342791
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Post by
Overhaul
Paladin: Bubble, LoH, Hearthstones
>.> I have a hearthstone and didn't know it...
I guess I would QQ too.
I think you wanted that under Warlocks.
Post by
toastmaster7727
Vanish has always been designed as a spell that is cheap and to give the rogue player a definite getaway. It's not some half-ass spell like Evasion where you just throw it up whenever you feel like it, and provides no guarantee of success. It is designed to work like a pallys bubble hearth.
Patch 3.3: Paladin bubbles now immediately break upon taking damage by a hunter or his pet.
Yeah.....THAT would probly slide over as "no biggie". ;O
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