This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
Is the US government intentionally misleading Americans?
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
TheMediator
So, I read this book "Another Roadside Attraction" and one of the quotes in the book really got me thinking. The quote stated "For example, I learned that while the FBI regularly publishes figures showing increases in violent crime, these statistics do not take in account increases in population. The FBI will report something like 'In Los Angeles today there is 22 per cent more violent crime than there was in 1950.' But it neglects to note that population-wise, Los Angeles is almost twice as large as it was in 1950. If you consider population growth in ratio to crime, then crime has actually decreased. Is the FBI willfully distorting the facts? And if so, to what end?" The year that was being spoken about was I believe sometime in the 60s.
Anyways, I wondered whether or not this was actually legit, and ended up going to the FBI website and they do in fact make claims on their website that crime is on the rise, when in fact when one looks at the numbers relatively speaking crime is diminishing in proportion to the population. So, is the FBI just stupid (bad), or are they trying to manipulate us with information that, while wholly factual, doesn't actually tell you the truth of the matter (also bad)?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Everyone uses statistics that way, including the government, it's nothing new.
Which is why I never trust anything I read. Get the source and do the calculations yourself.
I know I don't usually approve of wikipedia, but
this
page will help you out a lot if you keep all of the points in mind when reading things.
Of course I didn't actually answer the question (per usual as some might say :P). What they say might not be an out-right lie, however the fact that they are using the logical/mathematical ignorance of the general population to their advantage should say something about them.
Post by
TheMediator
I mean, I know most people only present the information in a way that support their argument, but I always liked to think that the government as a whole wasn't taking part in this sort of cheap trickery. I just really feel like the government is relatively petty if they're in on this crap - political parties and the media doing that is one thing, but I sort of feel like the government organizations as a whole should take a more neutral stance. Then again, I suppose that ultimately government organizations are just groups of people, and all people bring their own bias to the table.
Ughhh. Just makes me sick thinking about it.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
As George Washington said:
However may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterward the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.
Post by
449558
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Here's an example:
BBC reports
that the government claims that there are 7 million pirates online. They got their info from
this report issued by the government
, which claims 6.7 million members unauthorised downloading community. If you look at the first page you'll see that it wasn't conducted by the government but by the University College of London.
The UCL report claims that the number came from yet another report (
Forrester
) which as it turns out doesn't mention the number 7 million even once. The number in fact came from a BPI (Britain's music industry) piece of research dealing with their losses to pirates (which was never actually published).
So in short, so far we've seen that this "government statistic" originated from a biased music industry study.
But how did they get that number? They conducted a survey of ~1000 households, 11.6% of whom admitted to using file-sharing software (note, that in and of itself doesn't constitute illegal downloading). They then bumped that number up to 16.3% to account for "under-reporting." That alone is a difference in over 3 million from the final number they came up with.
TL;DR: Don't do drugs...erm...I mean, don't trust anything the government says that you can't verify yourself.
Post by
Skyfire
I mean, I know most people only present the information in a way that support their argument, but I always liked to think that the government as a whole wasn't taking part in this sort of cheap trickery. I just really feel like the government is relatively petty if they're in on this crap - political parties and the media doing that is one thing, but I sort of feel like the government organizations as a whole should take a more neutral stance. Then again, I suppose that ultimately government organizations are just groups of people, and all people bring their own bias to the table.
Ughhh. Just makes me sick thinking about it.
It's so the people will vote more dollars into police funding.
I wouldn't judge the entire government based on what the FBI makes of the statistics. Simply be a person to say that the FBI is 'dewin it rong' and that other people should work against that.
Also, Washington's Farewell ftw!
Post by
MyTie
I wouldn't judge the entire government based on what the FBI makes of the statistics.
I think every single branch and section of government is biased, and acts in its own survival and best interest. All of the data, statistics, corrupt finding, and general deceit in the world would never bend Skyfire from a profound trust in our body unelect.
Post by
122776
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Deepthought
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Post by
MyTie
Even Obama misleads people
I love how this is said as if it were nearly unbelivable. Politicians, yeah.... but OBAMA mislead? Noooo. That CAN'T be! Even him? Our dear leader?
Post by
437763
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Ugh, American politics. You may want to specify it's another American-exclusive thread in the title. It's 10 seconds of my life I'll never get back :(
Haha you actually think this only happens in America? Wow.
Post by
437763
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skyfire
I wouldn't judge the entire government based on what the FBI makes of the statistics.
I think every single branch and section of government is biased, and acts in its own survival and best interest. All of the data, statistics, corrupt finding, and general deceit in the world would never bend Skyfire from a profound trust in our body unelect.
Nice fallacy
and
personal attack, Mr. Tie. gtfo.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Where are the FBI, Obama, Bush, Washington etc. From or based in?
What country is specifically being spoken about in the OP, and most posts since then?
Rhetorical.
It's a general question raised by a particular issue. People only talk in terms of what they are familiar with (ie their own government).
Post by
TheMediator
People only talk in terms of what they are familiar with (ie their own government).
This. Obviously I can't really saw one way or the other how your country runs things, but I imagine if one government that is the model for a lot of democratic nations across the world is pulling some of these below the belt type of moves, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that other countries are doing it.
Anyways, these are the English WoWhead forums, so I'd imagine that most forum goers have the understanding that issues brought up are more likely to involve English speaking countries.
Post by
Deepthought
Anyways, these are the English WoWhead forums, so I'd imagine that most forum goers have the understanding that issues brought up are more likely to involve English speaking countries.
America isn't the only country to speak English.
Post by
TheMediator
Congrats, you discovered I clearly said that America is the only country to speak English.
Post by
Deepthought
Congrats, you discovered I clearly said that America is the only country to speak English.
No, but telling someone they can't complain about a topic about politics being mainly concerned with American politics because "these are English-speaking forums and America speaks English" is a logic fallacy and if you honestly can't recognise that there is no hope for you.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.