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Post by
Rankkor
And I'm sorry but if I running around on my Alliance Shaman, I'd rather have something that matches the Pandaren.
So by that logic if you play a human monk you'd rather have a human-based weapon?
If you play a dwarven mage you'd hate to use a human/elf staff?
If you play a draenei hunter would you rather have a draenei bow?
People are forgetting that these weapons are supposed to be based by
class
, not race. They're meant to represent the best of the best for each class, regardless of racial affiliation, which is why for mages for example, their weapons are respectively one belonging to a horde race (Windrunner bow) and one with alliance roots (Guardian of Tirisfal Staff)
If you want something that matches the pandaren, maybe you should play a pandaren class like the monks who indeed get pandaren flavored weapons (which wont fit with any of the other races that also conform the monks)
Leaving aside the fact that until Draenor, it is true; the Doomhammer is the family weapon of one orc, so why in the world would those of us who are not part of that Orc clan want it...especially since the primary users up to Thrall were warriors. Make the Doomhammer a weapon for the Warrior class especially since it is a freaking two hander and not a one hander...unless they are going to bring back 2 handed Enhance and I really doubt that.
Again, by that logic, until Draenor, Felo'melorn is the family weapon of a Sunstrider, a family that defected from the alliance, and has never rejoined it since.
Until now, Sheilun is the family weapon of a pandaren, with zero ties to other races or the rest of the world. So why in the world those of us who are not part of the pandaren race would want it?
Easy, because its a monk weapon. That's why.
Why would you want doomhammer? because its a shaman weapon.
The idea behind the artifacts is meant to evoke class pride, not race pride. Forget about your race. Focus on your class.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
oneforthemoney
Eh. The Doomhammer feels to me like its almsot too personal to that character. Bad enough Thrall lost his armour, but the hammer? It's like they're casually stripping him of everything that made him the character we like.
The Ashbringer gets a pass because so many people have handled it. The weapon itself has a life outside the character. But at this point the Doomhammer is Thrall. I don't have much of a problem with any of the others, but the Doomhammer feels wrong to give to the player. It...reduces how special it is, stripping away a little more of what makes the lore of Warcraft itself special.
Post by
Rankkor
Thrall lost his armour
Technically speaking, he didn't. In fact, in Draenor he's using it again (sadly he's still using that stupid robe on top of it, but at least now its more of a trenchcoat than a hobo-robe. And that incredibly stupid bead necklace is gone. Thanks Garrosh! =D you finally did ONE thing right)
That said, I agree with you that it feels wrong to take the weapon off him, in fact I said so in the previous post.
Which is why I'm hoping we're using the doomhammer of alternate draenor rather than the doomhammer of Thrall. Not only that gives WoD SOMETHING to contribute to the plot other than the half-assed excuse to bring gul'dan back, but also prevents Thrall from losing something that is a key part of himself.
But I have no problems with shamans of all races using Doomhammer, because again, Artifacts are not meant to evoke race pride, they're meant to evoke class pride. Come on, the protection warrior weapon belongs to the Vry'kul.
if you're a gnome warrior should you feel like less of a gnome for using a Vry'kul weapon? No,
because you're not supposed to feel like a gnome, you're supposed to feel like a Warrior, regardless of race.
Class pride above race pride.
The Ashbringer gets a pass because so many people have handled it.
Technically speaking, they've had the same number of owners.
Ashbringer = Alexandros Mograine, Darion Mograine, Tirion Fordring.
Doomhammer: Telkar Doomhammer, Orgrim Doomhammer, Thrall.
And before anyone says "But we barely saw Telkar do anything with it", the same logic applies to Alexandros, since he got it and more or less died almost immediately.
In fact, Ashbringer is worse about this because the weapon has been almost exclusively in the hands of Tirion for the most part. Darion barely held it too during the intro to WOTLK. Whereas Doomhammer has a long history first in the hands of Orgrim, and now in the hands of Thrall.
It hasn't been exclusively with the latter.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
Why would you want doomhammer? because its a shaman weapon.But it's not; only one Shaman has used it, and that's Thrall. Every other bearer, both on Main Draenor and Alternate Draenor has been a Warrior....And again, the Doomhammer is a two handed mace, not a one handed weapon; every description of it mentions just how long the shaft is and how massive the head is.
And yes, if they are going to put all this effort into these 'special class' weapons, then alter them a little to properly reflect the races who represent the class as well: Give us plain hammers for the Pandaren, make the Tauren maces/axes with beads and feathers on them, have the Dwarves with ornately carved weapons. Rather then pick and choose random weapons that the Lore characters have had, make these represent our class.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Yeah, but the Ashbringer itself had a greater story impact. The weapon was the focus of the story with those characters rotating around it. Doomhammer on the other hand has always been more of something which goes with the character and passed between them rather than itself having been a focal point.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Rather then pick and choose random weapons that the Lore characters have had,
make these represent our class.
But......
they do.
What you're asking is that they also represent
your race
, which is not something they're supposed to do.
Why would you want doomhammer? because its a shaman weapon.But it's not; only one Shaman has used it, and that's Thrall.
Also, even in this case, that still makes it a shaman weapon. Simply because it was formed from the elements and by the elements, and has played a pivotal role in a shaman's story.
Take Lothar's shield. That is as much an artifact as far as I'm concerned, and Lothar was no paladin, he was a warrior, yet if this shield is added to the game as the artifact for protection paladins (and it would only be for paladins, prot warriors got confirmed to get the shield and sword of a vry'kul king) it would make sense. It may have started as a sacred relic of a warrior, but it became a paladin's cherished artifact as well. Why? because Turalyon has it, and he's used it for the better part of 3 decades now.
Besides, do recall that there's more than one spec. I wouldn't be surprised if the resto shaman weapon was related to Nobundo, and the Ele Shaman weapon was related to taurens, or even dwarves.
Alas, there's only 3 specs per class, so its impossible to represent EVERY race that can play that class. I mean what would you do for warriors? which belong to every race? Or warlocks which can be played by almost everyone? or mages? which also can be played by virtually every race except taurens.
True racial representation is impossible, and its not the goal of the artifacts in the first place. They're meant to represent the classes.
If you want a better example of a WTF moment regarding artifacts, look at blood Dks. We get a demon axe. What the hell :S that's neither related to DKs (We're not warlocks or demon hunters for crying out loud) undead, or the scourge.
But the doomhammer? the weapon forged by the elements from the elements? hell yeah.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
That's only if it's the Draenor Doomhammer....as far as we know, the original was never done like that. I get it and all, but they really could have picked something better to represent Enhance shamans other then a two handed mace that is more iconic for Warriors then Shamans.
Post by
Rankkor
That's only if it's the Draenor Doomhammer....as far as we know, the original was never done like that.
And as far as we know, it did. I mean we never really knew who crafted it, and according to blizzard almost all the supplemental background lore in WoD happened in the main timeline too, such as Kargath's gladiator background, or Blackhand wielding the Doomhammer once, etc. SO unless pointed otherwise, even the main timeline Doomhammer was also like the alternate one.
I get it and all, but they really could have picked something better to represent Enhance shamans other then a two handed mace that is more iconic for Warriors then Shamans.
I can hardly think of a more shamanic weapon than a hammer crafted from the elements
by
the elements.
That said, I just had a moment of Fridge Logic regarding the Doomhammer.
The hammerhead is supposed to be indestructible. Even when the handle has been replaced several times, the head has remained intact through countless battles, never getting a single crack over god knows how many centuries.
And yet......... someone, and we've never known who, was able to carve the frostwolf insignia on it at some point. It wasn't originally on the hammer, as it was an heirloom of the blackrock clan, and in the short comic of blackhand you can see that the head is smooth with no insignias carved on it.
If the hammerhead is uncrackable, how could someone chisel an insignia on it? o_O and if a simple artisan could carve a symbol on the stone of the hammer, then why can't the hammerhead crack in battle like a normal hammer would after being used for so long?
The only explanation I can think of is that again, this is a magical hammer, crafted by the elements, and if a shaman asked the elements for their permission to engrave something on the stone and the elements granted it, they could, even when anyone else would utterly fail in putting so much as a dent on the head.
Post by
morginar
2: and this is the other big eyebrow raiser, if Thrall still has a large story to play out, and his character will evolve, now more than ever I just don't see him handing down "
his
" Doomhammer. That and the Black Plate Armor are as much a part of his character as Mickey Mouse's red shorts,
Shepard's N7 Armor in Mass Effect
, or Samus Aran's Power Armor in Metroid.
You mean the one Legion uses?
If you want a better example of a WTF moment regarding artifacts, look at blood Dks. We get a demon axe. What the hell :S that's neither related to DKs (We're not warlocks or demon hunters for crying out loud) undead, or the scourge.
Death knights have quite some demon connections. The scourge is in the end of the day, a rogue LEGION faction, the forstmourne was made by demon, the dreadlords where the lords of the scourge once upon a time and if the story of the death knights where to center around a dead faction, their story would stagnate. So, if they want to move on with their class, they could look into their origins. And that would be, Kil'j and the dreadlords, or possibly Gul'dan and the first gen DK.
Though whats with all this rant about doomhammer? It's a shaman hammer, regardless of it's origin, it's a shaman weapon. And this expac is all about the class, so the iconic character part of a class that posses a mythic weapon will be ours, for shaman it's doomhammer, though I assume a alliance race weapon will be part of another shaman spec and a high mtn for the final spec.
Frost mages got a tirisfal staff due to the order being a iconic mage faction of the elite and with Khadgar with the final guardian staff frost got the first.
Kael'thas is known to posses Flamestrike, the sunstrider family sword. Though where the sword ended up has been unknown, so now it shows up. As a fire mage blade.
Arthas is the core of deathknights, so his sword, also iconic is now the frost DK (it's called FROSTmourne) blades.
Monks are heavily tied to pandas, so much that non-panda monk make little sense (one reaon I'm glad DH is Elf only, make sense) so a iconic pandaren is used for this staff, he created the mist so mistweaver it is.
Windrunner family is the front of rangers and thus marksmen, So a windrunner bow it is.
Post by
Adamsm
That's only if it's the Draenor Doomhammer....as far as we know, the original was never done like that.
And as far as we know, it did. I mean we never really knew who crafted it, and according to blizzard almost all the supplemental background lore in WoD happened in the main timeline too, such as Kargath's gladiator background, or Blackhand wielding the Doomhammer once, etc. SO unless pointed otherwise, even the main timeline Doomhammer was also like the alternate one.
I get it and all, but they really could have picked something better to represent Enhance shamans other then a two handed mace that is more iconic for Warriors then Shamans.
I can hardly think of a more shamanic weapon than a hammer crafted from the elements
by
the elements.
/shrug Well hopefully the Artefacts will be transmoggable; at least then I can have something else with my Shaman other then a weapon of one of the famous Orc Clans and has been wielded by more warrior types then shamans.
Post by
oneforthemoney
I'll be honest. When it gets down to brass tacks, I'm just happy having class quests again. I get why they got rid of them, but I remember the amount of work my warlock did to get his demons, and my paladin his horse, and that made it feel more special to me.
Post by
Rankkor
/shrug Well hopefully the Artefacts will be transmoggable
They are. They can be recipients, but not donors of transmogs.
That is to say, you can make your doomhammer look like another onehanded mace or axe, but you cannot make a regular mace/axe look like doomhammer.
It kinda puts the future of artifacts in peril if they don't become popular and are replaced by regular weapons after Legion.
at least then I can have something else with my Shaman other then a weapon of one of the famous Orc Clans
Sorry bro' but I have to wonder if you're gonna be doing this for every single artifact that doesn't match the race you're playing. Like, I know your panda is a monk, but if you play a dwarf hunter, or a draenei mage, what are you gonna do? Hell, you have a gnome warlock, not one of the warlock wepaons is gonna be gnomish I can assure you that much.
In other news, as I was moderating comments in the spanish section of this website, I stumbled upon something that made me facepalm so hard I think I may have bruised my forehead.
Ashbringer
That's the spanish version of Ashbringer........ and they decided to name it "Crematoria" in spanish. Crematoria. CREMATORIA!!!!!!!!!! They take a cool name like Ashbringer and change it to the spanish word for Crematorium.
I knew the spanish version of wow had a shoddy translation, but this.......... this........... AAAAAAAAAHAGHASHSARGHEIAHNRHYKANHKNASDRLKHNALHNKAHLKNAHLKRHNANRHARJHADJA
/head-desk.
Why doesn't blizzard hires me for their localizer team? T_T I could do the spanish version of this game some true justice.
I'll be honest. When it gets down to brass tacks, I'm just happy having class quests again. I get why they got rid of them, but I remember the amount of work my warlock did to get his demons, and my paladin his horse, and that made it feel more special to me.
This. SO VERY MUCH THIS.
Class quests are rare and far between in this game, but when they're here, my god, they're the most amazing thing ever. It felt badass to get my resurrection spell as a blood elf paladin (Having to duel a fellow blood knight to the death and then bring him back) and indeed I remember the quests to get the warlock demons and the shaman totems, and they were pretty cool. I remember the quests to learn poisons for rogues.
Class identity has been slowly watered down over the years, to the point where we're no longer paladins, or shamans, or warriors, or Death Knights. We're just generic and interchangeable "Adventurers". That's all we are.
Its gonna be (hopefully) good to finally feel like we actually belong to our classes once more.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Morec0
In other news, as I was moderating comments in the spanish section of this website, I stumbled upon something that made me facepalm so hard I think I may have bruised my forehead.
Ashbringer
That's the spanish version of Ashbringer........ and they decided to name it "Crematoria" in spanish. Crematoria. CREMATORIA! They take a cool name like Ashbringer and change it to the spanish word for Crematorium.
I knew the spanish version of wow had a shoddy translation, but this.......... this........... AAAAAAAAAHAGHASHSARGHEIAHNRHYKANHKNASDRLKHNALHNKAHLKNAHLKRHNANRHARJHADJA
/head-desk.
I... kinda think that sounds cool. I mean, I"m as white as sour dough, but I like the way it sounds - also fits with the purpose of the Ashbringer; to burn through the dead.
What would you have named it, though?
Post by
Adamsm
at least then I can have something else with my Shaman other then a weapon of one of the famous Orc Clans
Sorry bro' but I have to wonder if you're gonna be doing this for every single artifact that doesn't match the race you're playing. Like, I know your panda is a monk, but if you play a dwarf hunter, or a draenei mage, what are you gonna do? Hell, you have a gnome warlock, not one of the warlock wepaons is gonna be gnomish I can assure you that much.It all depends; from what I've seen, most of the artifact weapons can be more class based then race based. But in the case of the Doomhammer, it's going to get trasmogged because I personally feel that it's the wrong choice and doesn't make a lick of sense; I love my Enhance shaman, but running around with a weapon that is described as being a two handed weapon but going one hand with it will kill some of the immersion factor for me, and it's not just my Panda either, if my goblin is ever brought up to max level, it would still be the same: I will transmog because it wouldn't look right in her hands either.
Class quests are rare and far between in this game, but when they're here, my god, they're the most amazing thing ever. It felt badass to get my resurrection spell as a blood elf paladin (Having to duel a fellow blood knight to the death and then bring him back) and indeed I remember the quests to get the warlock demons and the shaman totems, and they were pretty cool. I remember the quests to learn poisons for rogues.
Class identity has been slowly watered down over the years, to the point where we're no longer paladins, or shamans, or warriors, or Death Knights. We're just generic and interchangeable "Adventurers". That's all we are.
Its gonna be (hopefully) good to finally feel like we actually belong to our classes once more.
Not all of them; some of the totem quests were 'fun' but others sucked, such as being a Draenei and having to run from Azuremyst to Ashenvale for the water totem...and then not really having much more there beyond that initial run. Same with the Succubus warlock demon quest; that thing sucked arse to do if you were Alliance. Yes the Charger/Dreadsteed quests were amazing, as was the Hunter bow quest, but there were also boring class quests too, same as anything else.
Post by
Rankkor
In other news, as I was moderating comments in the spanish section of this website, I stumbled upon something that made me facepalm so hard I think I may have bruised my forehead.
Ashbringer
That's the spanish version of Ashbringer........ and they decided to name it "Crematoria" in spanish. Crematoria. CREMATORIA! They take a cool name like Ashbringer and change it to the spanish word for Crematorium.
I knew the spanish version of wow had a shoddy translation, but this.......... this........... AAAAAAAAAHAGHASHSARGHEIAHNRHYKANHKNASDRLKHNALHNKAHLKNAHLKRHNANRHARJHADJA
/head-desk.
I... kinda think that sounds cool. I mean, I"m as white as sour dough, but I like the way it sounds
Maybe because its a foreign word to you? I mean, to an actual native spanish speaker its a stupid name to give to a sword for a cultural reason.
The act of burning a corpse to ashes instead of burying them is called "cremar" in spanish. And obviously the building where this process takes place is called "crematorio". This is also the same name given to the person performing the cremating.
Cremar comes from the latin word "cremātus" which means "to burn". In english, you know this word as "Cremate"
However, this is a very obscure and unused word in spanish (since we don't really cremate our dead, we bury them, its extremely rare to see someone keeping the ashes of a loved one, its considered bad omen in most latin american cultures).
There is a very similar word that is much much much common in spanish, and its known as "crema" without the second R. This one comes from the frech word "crème" and literally means "cream".
So in common spanish vernacular, when someone says Crematoria, its sounds less like "burning corpses to ashes" and more like "The Cream Bringer".
That is why it sounds so stupid to a spanish speaker. We have a sword that basically is called "The Cream Bringer" drastically reducing its epicness.
Maybe in english the association between these two words is lost because "Cremate" doesn't sound like "Cream" at all. But in spanish "Cremar" not only sounds a lot like "Crema", its also the name given when you spread cream on your bread.
TL;DR: Its a really really stupid name to give to a weapon >_>
What would you have named it, though?
I would've thought of something a lot more badass sounding in spanish. Maybe like "
Famigero Carmesi
", which is a word for something that irradiates such an intense heat it burns anything around it. (The second word means crimson)(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Rankkor
BTW Adamsm, I got some good news for ya (probably)
It just occured to me: The next warcraft book is very unlikely to be written by Christie Golden o_O
According to her Tweeter, she's working on a book right now that will act as a sequel to the upcoming Warcraft Movie set to be released on June next year. Apparently, they're retconning the living crap out of a lot of stuff in the first war, and this book will cover some of those changes.
IF she's working on a prequel novelization of the next movie, that means whoever they choose to write the book to bridge us into Legion will be someone else. I highly doubt anyone can just work on mulitple books at the same time. Can they?
Post by
oneforthemoney
BTW Adamsm, I got some good news for ya (probably)
It just occured to me: The next warcraft book is very unlikely to be written by Christie Golden o_O
According to her Tweeter, she's working on a book right now that will act as a sequel to the upcoming Warcraft Movie set to be released on June next year. Apparently, they're retconning the living crap out of a lot of stuff in the first war, and this book will cover some of those changes.
IF she's working on a prequel novelization of the next movie, that means whoever they choose to write the book to bridge us into Legion will be someone else. I highly doubt anyone can just work on mulitple books at the same time. Can they?
Damn it all. Blizz, it's a mark of a GOOD writer when you don't have to retcon everything EVERY time you want to do something new. If we can't rely on the lore, why the hell should we care if something happens?
Post by
Rankkor
BTW Adamsm, I got some good news for ya (probably)
It just occured to me: The next warcraft book is very unlikely to be written by Christie Golden o_O
According to her Tweeter, she's working on a book right now that will act as a sequel to the upcoming Warcraft Movie set to be released on June next year. Apparently, they're retconning the living crap out of a lot of stuff in the first war, and this book will cover some of those changes.
IF she's working on a prequel novelization of the next movie, that means whoever they choose to write the book to bridge us into Legion will be someone else. I highly doubt anyone can just work on mulitple books at the same time. Can they?
Damn it all. Blizz, it's a mark of a GOOD writer when you don't have to retcon everything EVERY time you want to do something new. If we can't rely on the lore, why the hell should we care if something happens?
I can give them a pass on this one, because the lore of Warcraft one is VERY obsolete, it was in a point in time where Warcraft was a completely different entity altogether. I mean, Northshire Priests originally worshipped God (as in, the Christian/Catholic God Jehova) rather than The Holy Light. From this same era, Daemons came from Hell, and their leader was Satan before the Burning Legion was conceived, and Dalaran was on a Cross-Shaped island.
In this case they're revising their earlier lore because at the time it was written, it just wasn't that good.
You can see something similar in the Metal Gear games, the first two MSX games were released in the 80s and were non-serious parodies of the action genre, before the game Metal Gear Solid 1 turned it into a serious franchise, so now we have a heapload of retcons and revisions to make the earlier dorkier years be a bit more serious. I mean, one of the bosses was called "Machine-gun Kid". Yes, seriously.
Back to Warcraft, if they don't retcon a lot of stuff, this movie is gonna end up being very alienating to the horde fans, since its just a bunch of alliance heroes beating the unidimensionally chaotic evil orcs, who at the time had basically no personality at all.
Instead, the movie will give the orcs some much needed depth, Durotar will actually be involved with the plot rather than be exiled and sit out of the conflict entirely. Doomhammer will also play a large role, presummably as a rising rebel against Blackhand's tyranny.
So this is one case where the changes are not only badly needed, but can also work for the good. The changes are not even horde-exclusive, as the alliance will also get some much needed revisions, for example Llane's queen who is a faceless nameless cardboard cutout in the backstory, will also play a large role in this movie.
So yeah, this move is actually good, its similar to how Marvel revised their own campy origins with their Ultimate Marvel brand. In fact, Chris Metzen compared the revisions done in the movie to the revisions done in Ultimate Marvel.
Anyone familiarized with those comics should know those changes were for the good.
Even the Lord of the Rings movies had to make a few changes (Sadly Tom Bombadil and Glorfindel were among them U_U)(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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