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Post by
Atik
Why do you keep wanting there to be peace between the two factions?
Okay, just gonna say it.
I see the "it's World of WARcraft" argument all the damn time, and I really don't buy it as the reason we can't have peace. There are so many other wars with so many better reasons than that between the Horde and Alliance.
There's the war against the Scourge, the war against the Old Gods, the war against the Legion. All of those are so much more interesting story-wise than just having the Alliance and Horde at war "because reasons".
It gets really old to constantly see some sort of peace start to come into play, and Blizzard finds some contrived way to ^&*! it up. Like, I don't know, having one of the biggest in-universe supporters of peace suddenly become a genocidal $%^&* overnight. Or having all the Horde leaders go full-on holding the idiot ball so hard their knuckles turn white mode... ALL THE DAMN TIME.
I mean, like hell, back in Icecrown Varian and Garrosh fought side by side against the Scourge. And it is NEVER brought up. It's like Tirion just clubbed them with an amnesia bat afterwards.
Post by
morginar
and that one rangari dude acting like a hypocrite.
He is just getting used to being a alliance, that is all.
Why do you keep wanting there to be peace between the two factions?
Because we had a long and anoying horde vs alliance storyline for a while now and nothing good came from it. We have no need to return to it.
If it did return, how would you want it to spin?
Horde getting the evil bat for the millionth time?
Alliance becoming the whiter than white boring guys of justice?
Because that happened in wrath to mop.
And it's about time Jaina grew a backbone after being unrealistically nice and sweet since the story's inception, she's only human after all. So, Jaina goes to crazy mode? she is very
Bipolar
complex.
wonder if we are getting blood furnice and the other tbc dungs in WoD to act as the hour of twilight dungs did. Maybe kill grom and gul'dan there?
Post by
Stabhorn
I just noticed that the the last orc you kill in the tunnels during the Tanaan intro quests was Kel'dan the Breaker from Blood Furnace.
Post by
Rankkor
Why do you keep wanting there to be peace between the two factions?
Because blizzard is incapable of making a fight between the alliance and the horde
without
making the horde the bad guys.
If they made a new war making the alliance evil, the instigators, the ones with mustache-twirling war criminals, and actually letting the horde be the heroes this time, I'd be all over that.
But they're never gonna do that, so I prefer it to not have any war at all.
Anyway you're right about one thing, all the lamers from both factions had worked together from the start of the expansion,
and that's just so like Thrall
;
/rollseyes.
Could we please give it a rest with the Thrall-bashing? sweet jesus that's getting old. Khadgar also wants peace between the two factions and is in fact the one leading both groups in draenor.
Whatever he represents now doesn't feel like the horde to me anyway
And who said that what Thrall is, represents the horde in any way? If that was the case, he'd be the warchief, but he's not. That's also the main reason why he refused to step in when Garrosh started going crazy. And its kinda hard to argue his point when asked in 5.1 why was he inactive all this time while garrosh slowly descended into madness.
This is a paraphrased version of what he said (I wanted to post screenshots, but couldn't find them >_>)
"I could confront garrosh directly, but I've come to see that not all orcs share MY view of the horde. Who am I to command their allegiance if I must become another dictator to do so? The Orcs have changed, My Horde has changed. Do I kill my fellow orcs until its once again "my" horde? Do I even have any right to try to force the horde to be what I
want
it to be?"
Its hard to argue against that. He saw that the horde wanted change, he placed garrosh in charge, and when his changes began to impact negatively the rest of the horde, he questioned whether it should be "his" version of the horde that others should be following, but that's the thing,
nobody else
rose up to challenge garrosh. Eventually Vol'jin did, which is why its him leading the horde now instead of Thrall.
So I don't get why people are still hating on thrall, why he's the default go-to for everything that's wrong with the horde when he's no longer its representative, nor its leader, nor anything other than a symbolic figure, like Eitrigg or Saurfang are.
And it's about time Jaina grew a backbone after being unrealistically nice and sweet since the story's inception,
she's only human after all
.
Having a backbone =/= Being an asshat. Just so we're clear, you CAN be the former, without having to be the latter.
and that one rangari dude acting like a hypocrite.
He is just getting used to being a alliance, that is all.
lol, you made my night with that man =P
wonder if we are getting blood furnice and the other tbc dungs in WoD to act as the hour of twilight dungs did. Maybe kill grom and gul'dan there?
Nah, based on soundfiles datamined so far:
We end up rescuing Grom in Hellfire Citadel, after which he thanks us, calls us heroes, and goes hunting for "a trophy" I'm guessing Gul'dan.
And here's a different spoiler that I'm putting apart just in case:
Night Elven Wardens must
really
love holding the villain ball, in this case literally. Cordana Felsong, whom we last saw taking the Orb of Dominion from Khadgar to properly destroy it.......ends up being brainwashed by it, and she's now Garona's Replacement as Gul'dan's top assassin, and she tries to kill us and steal our fancy ring. Dunno if she dies yet though. Hurray for wardens, you know, I'm starting to think night elves should get better cops.
In fact, this was foreshadowed in the actual game. Not only is her name
Fel
song, but after freeing Garona, you can find her inside Khadgar's Tower, staring at the Orb of Dominion intently, and whereas before she was polite and courteous with us, click on her and she coldly and rudely dismisses us, because she's too busy going all Gollum on us. (##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
oneforthemoney
Night Elven Wardens must
really
love holding the villain ball, in this case literally. Cordana Felsong, whom we last saw taking the Orb of Dominion from Khadgar to properly destroy it.......ends up being brainwashed by it, and she's now Garona's Replacement as Gul'dan's top assassin, and she tries to kill us and steal our fancy ring. Dunno if she dies yet though. Hurray for wardens, you know, I'm starting to think night elves should get better cops.
In fact, this was foreshadowed in the actual game. Not only is her name
Fel
song, but after freeing Garona, you can find her inside Khadgar's Tower, staring at the Orb of Dominion intently, and whereas before she was polite and courteous with us, click on her and she coldly and rudely dismisses us, because she's too busy going all Gollum on us.
Damn it all. I hope she gets redeemed. That is such a poor choice. I love her banter with Khadgar and seeing her as Garona 2.0 is really disappointing.
Post by
Rankkor
Night Elven Wardens must
really
love holding the villain ball, in this case literally. Cordana Felsong, whom we last saw taking the Orb of Dominion from Khadgar to properly destroy it.......ends up being brainwashed by it, and she's now Garona's Replacement as Gul'dan's top assassin, and she tries to kill us and steal our fancy ring. Dunno if she dies yet though. Hurray for wardens, you know, I'm starting to think night elves should get better cops.
In fact, this was foreshadowed in the actual game. Not only is her name
Fel
song, but after freeing Garona, you can find her inside Khadgar's Tower, staring at the Orb of Dominion intently, and whereas before she was polite and courteous with us, click on her and she coldly and rudely dismisses us, because she's too busy going all Gollum on us.
Damn it all. I hope she gets redeemed. That is such a poor choice. I love her banter with Khadgar and seeing her as Garona 2.0 is really disappointing.
It'll be kinda hard for her to be redeemed, because the Orb is destroyed, remember how we couldn't break Garona's brainwashing without it?. And I doubt Gul'dan is gonna leave a spare one lying around again so we can once again deny him a top assassin.
Another spoiler here set apart just in case, but PLEASE put on your tinfoil hats for this one, because its not 100% confirmed. This was all from out-of-context audio clips.
But I am starting to think Khadgar is dead o_O possibly by the very hand of Cordana. Which in turn could mean that Cordana getting redeemed is pretty unlikely. What happened to the last woman who killed a major lore character? (AKA: Azuka) yep, iced. See? man, having two X chromosomes in wow isn't exactly the best deal =/
You'll end up either going bonkers, being the shadow of someone else, or best case scenario, forgotten about and never mentioned again.
Like I said, LOTS of salt for that one, because its not confirmed, without the proper context that audio could mean anything.
Post by
oneforthemoney
It'll be kinda hard for her to be redeemed, because the Orb is destroyed, remember how we couldn't break Garona's brainwashing without it?. And I doubt Gul'dan is gonna leave a spare one lying around again so we can once again deny him a top assassin.
This is what really bothers me about Warlords. Let's not bother to come up with new characters! Let's regurgitate all the ones we've already come up with and make them the important ones. I vastly prefer Cordana to Garona, because not only is this copy Garona, but the character has nothing more to offer. She's already been redeemed in the main timeline, and is alive. Why would we want another one? What story does she have left we haven't already explored? Aside from maybe getting it on with Khadgar like her counterpart did with Medivh.
I'm just...disappointed this is what we get. More orcs. I really hope it doesn't end up that way.
Post by
Rankkor
I'm just...disappointed this is what we get.
More orcs
. I really hope it doesn't end up that way.
"More" orcs? dude we're killing them off left and right. Orcs characters are introduced, and then killed off (
Nazgrim
). And introduced, and killed off. (
Zaela
). And introduced, and killed off (
Saurfang Junior
) And introduced, and killed off (
Garrosh
). And introduced, and kiled off (
Gan'ar
). And introduced, and killed off (
Azuka
). And introduced, and killed off (
All the warlords, as well as Doomhammer
) And introduced, and killed off (
Shokia
..... Come on, she's not dead yet but she may as well be, given that she's been outed a garrosh loyalist, so sooner or later she's gonna kick the bucket)
For every few orcs that manage to live, we get a thousand more that died. And the few that do manage to live, is because they're already pre-wow characters. Like Garona, Thrall, Durotan, Drek'thar, etc. Pretty much the only post-wow orc characters that haven't died, or be set up to die, are Saurfang Senior, Eitrigg, and Aggra. That's it. And they haven't done anything relevant to the plot at all. Either never as is the case with Eitrigg, or in a long time as is the case with Saurfang. Eitrigg hasn't done a single thing in wow other than a tiny cameo in zul'drak and another in SoO. Saurfang hasn't done anything since WOTLK, and Aggra.......... ugh, I better not get started with her.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Because she's not human. That's why.
Didn't you get the memo? humans are the only race that matters in the alliance, they're the only ones allowed to shine. Look at khadgar, he's human, and he's the protagonist of WoD. You think he'd still be alive if he wasn't human? nope, look at Maraad, first time he's ever been given anything important to do in the game, and BOOM, to the chopping block like a punk. Look at Alternate!Velen, killed off practically upon arrival, because we just can't have a dude this important sucking up all the glory from humanity, nope, we can't have that, he'd steal all the thunder from glorious khadgar, and that just wont do.
Alliance is all about humanity, and the rest of the alliance races can suck it =/ sadly that's just the way things are, and that's how they're always going to be.
Which is why I'm not exactly holding my breath for Yrel, I'm gonna be VERY surprised if she's still alive by the end of this expansion. That blizzard officially compared her to Joan of Arc (A real life martyr for a cause) isn't helping.
Hell, sometimes I feel like
this
should be the banner of the alliance. Just replace washigton's head with Varian's, and the heads of the racist caricatures beneath him with Velen, Tyrande, Genn, Malfurion, Moira, Muradin, Falstad, Gelbin, and
that pandaren stiff chick who's name I can't even bother to remember.
Aysa.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Rankkor
In other news: we have Green orcs, brown orcs, red orcs, plant orcs, gray orcs, albino orcs, and now
purple orcs?
lol. Orcs must have some chameleon genes in their bodies because they're the most multicolor race I've ever seen in my life.
Post by
oneforthemoney
"More" orcs? dude we're killing them off left and right. Orcs characters are introduced, and then killed off (
Nazgrim
). And introduced, and killed off. (
Zaela
). And introduced, and killed off (
Saurfang Junior
) And introduced, and killed off (
Garrosh
). And introduced, and kiled off (
Gan'ar
). And introduced, and killed off (
Azuka
). And introduced, and killed off (
All the warlords, as well as Doomhammer
) And introduced, and killed off (
Shokia
..... Come on, she's not dead yet but she may as well be, given that she's been outed a garrosh loyalist, so sooner or later she's gonna kick the bucket)
That's exactly my point. All the new characters to the game of any import we've been introduce to are orcs. The point isn't that we're killing them. It's that the one new night elf character we do get, who is funnt and interesting, is being replaced by an orc whose story was done long ago. Now we're just repeating it.
Post by
Stabhorn
In other news: we have Green orcs, brown orcs, red orcs, plant orcs, gray orcs, albino orcs, and now
purple orcs?
lol. Orcs must have some chameleon genes in their bodies because they're the most multicolor race I've ever seen in my life.
You forgot Dark Grey for the Dragonmaw. And then dark blue Bonechewer behemoths found in Black Temple.
Post by
Rankkor
"More" orcs? dude we're killing them off left and right. Orcs characters are introduced, and then killed off (
Nazgrim
). And introduced, and killed off. (
Zaela
). And introduced, and killed off (
Saurfang Junior
) And introduced, and killed off (
Garrosh
). And introduced, and kiled off (
Gan'ar
). And introduced, and killed off (
Azuka
). And introduced, and killed off (
All the warlords, as well as Doomhammer
) And introduced, and killed off (
Shokia
..... Come on, she's not dead yet but she may as well be, given that she's been outed a garrosh loyalist, so sooner or later she's gonna kick the bucket)
That's exactly my point.
All the new characters to the game of any import we've been introduce to are orcs.
The point isn't that we're killing them. It's that the one new night elf character we do get, who is funnt and interesting, is being replaced by an orc whose story was done long ago. Now we're just repeating it.
Whoa, hold up there.
The game has introduced several characters both alliance, horde, and neutral that are NOT orcs, in each expansion. Some get more attention than others, but to say that "all" the new characters are orcs is a pretty inaccurate thing to say.
Just in MoP, we had major players like Lorewalker Cho, Taran Zhu, Chen, Li Li, Vol'jin, Lor'themar, Dezco, Taylor, Sully, Rogers, Rell, Lyalia, Jaina, Anduin, Varian, Moira,The Four Celestials, Wrathion, The Klaxxi, etc. You could argue that the new characters introduced are then quickly left forgotten and never show up again, which is a fair point. (For example, after making quite an impact in Redridge, Keeshan is reduced to nothing more than cameo appearances, where his personality is that of a psychotic bipolar nutjob with PTSD) But saying "All new characters introduced are orcs" is not exactly true.
Several non-orcs are introduced in every expansion, both for the alliance, the horde, and neutral factions. Yes they often only get 5 minutes of attention and are never seen again
BUT
...... they're still alive, meaning they
could
show up later (Which is what happened with Khadgar, introduced in TBC where he did nothing, and now look at all the attention he's getting). Meanwhile, of all the new characters major and minor introduced in each expansion, those that happen to be orcs, have a ridiculously high mortality rate, to the point where its easier to count those that live, than those that die, or are set up to die. And once they're dead, that's it, they don't come back.
So while the non-orcs who get their 5 minutes of fame and then get no more attention
may
get some more a few years later, the orcs who do get their 5 minutes of fame happens to be their last ones and are then
definitely
never seen again. As bad as I want to, I'll never be able to see Saurfang Junior or Nazgrim again. You on the other hand, still have a massive trove of characters that were neglected and left behind, waiting to be dusted off and get some attention eventually. And don't say they'll never get any attention in the future, because Khadgar had gotten ZERO attention in like 8 years (In TBC he did nothing, and in the comics he just spouted exposition for Med'an) and now look at the massive lottery he just won.
And as I said above, If they're killing her off, its not because she's not an orc, quite the opposite, if she was an orc she would've died
faster
. They're killing her off because she's not human. Alliance attention HAS to be focused on the humans apparently.
It's that the one new night elf character we do get, who is funnt and interesting, is being replaced by an orc
Saying that Garona "replaces" Cordana's role as Khadgar's go-to girl is
very
VERY
inaccurate, so far there's not one soundfile of her (Garona) in 6.2 that I've seen, because apparently, Garona's story and involvement with the plot ended the moment she joined our garrison as a follower.
You know..... same as all the other NPCs that join our garrisons as followers, you never again see them in the outside world. Probably to avoid that awkward moment where you find them outside your garrison giving you a quest and you go like "wait a minute..... I just sent you to clean up the latrines, what are you doing here?"
Also, Cordana is not the first unique night elf we've been introduced to that is then killed off unceremoniously.
Never forget Rell :'(
He was truly a badass.......... you know, despite being alliance and all........
R.I.P Rell Nightwind
?-2013
And don't forget about
her
She got a relatively modest amount of attention in MoP including a zone where her story was a major arc, a short story (She shared it with Maraad, but whatever) and she's also heavily involved in the Isle of Thunder. (All of that is certainly far more than cordana ever got who so far has only had silent cameos in most places she goes to, and she is sassy to Khadgar, that's it).
And she's still alive
. Meaning she can be used later. Unlike all the orc characters I've mentioned who got their 5 minutes of fame and then got killed off
meaning they'll never get another dosage of attention. Ever.
Dead is dead.
You do have a point in that she was a funny character, being the sassy yet serious secretary to her somewhat whacky and hipster boss.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
oneforthemoney
"More" orcs? dude we're killing them off left and right. Orcs characters are introduced, and then killed off (
Nazgrim
). And introduced, and killed off. (
Zaela
). And introduced, and killed off (
Saurfang Junior
) And introduced, and killed off (
Garrosh
). And introduced, and kiled off (
Gan'ar
). And introduced, and killed off (
Azuka
). And introduced, and killed off (
All the warlords, as well as Doomhammer
) And introduced, and killed off (
Shokia
..... Come on, she's not dead yet but she may as well be, given that she's been outed a garrosh loyalist, so sooner or later she's gonna kick the bucket)
That's exactly my point.
All the new characters to the game of any import we've been introduce to are orcs.
The point isn't that we're killing them. It's that the one new night elf character we do get, who is funnt and interesting, is being replaced by an orc whose story was done long ago. Now we're just repeating it.
Whoa, hold up there.
The game has introduced several characters both alliance, horde, and neutral that are NOT orcs, in each expansion. Some get more attention than others, but to say that "all" the new characters are orcs is a pretty inaccurate thing to say.
You know very well I was referring to Warlords only, Rank. Not MoP or Cata or any of the others. Take your finger off the hair trigger.
Post by
Rankkor
Meh, my point still stands. At least the non-orcs who get introduced and then never seen again are still alive. Orc ones introduced are still dead.
And as I said, Garona isn't replacing anyone, she's apparently not involved in the story anymore, same as all other NPCs that join our garrison. (At least so far, I haven't seen any datamined soundfile of her anywhere). So saying "Funny elf replaced by orc" is not exactly true.
As for who else is there as a WoD Major figure that isn't an orc? well, there's Khadgar and Yrel. We'll see how long they last.
Post by
oneforthemoney
It is a bit of a shame that our followers stories seem to end, but not necessarily surprising as getting them to that point tends to be their stories. Still, I would love to help Tormmok take command of what remains of the ogre empire and bring them in as allies against the Legion.
Post by
Rankkor
Still, I would love to help Tormmok take command of what remains of the ogre empire and bring them in as allies against the Legion.
Ohh God!!! that'd be awesome :(
I wish blizzard did stuff like that.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Could be fun, really. Sort of like Mass Effect three, where you have to bring together all the different races and factions on Draenor against the encroaching Burning Legion. Botani, ogres, arrakoa and Primals. Or set it up like the Firelands where we're actually invading a Legion world with their help.
Post by
Rankkor
If we do end up invading a legion world, I would rather do so with the races and people of azeroth, than the ones from draenor, but yeah, it'd be nice if we could rally the rest of draenor against the iron horde and the legion.
The fact that not all of the iron horde joins gul'dan (In fact we recruit some of them to build our shipyard) and that Grom escapes lends credence to my belief that this is not the final patch at all, and we're gonna have a final showdown with the iron horde down the line.
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