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Post by
HiVolt
You can't say that if
you
were Varian, you wouldn't want to kill her. Someone just coming up and telling you that she wasn't under her own power when she killed your dad... that's not going to stop you from wanting to kill her. In fact, it would probably make you want to kill her, and kill whoever else was responsible.
I'm not saying she deserves to die, but I will admit that Varian wanting her dead is completely justified.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm not saying she deserves to die, but I will admit that Varian wanting her dead is completely justified.Aye, as said before, but if he acts on it... he's no better then she is in all honesty.
Post by
HiVolt
I'm not saying she deserves to die, but I will admit that Varian wanting her dead is completely justified.Aye, as said before, but if he acts on it... he's no better then she is in all honesty.
True, and maybe he will realize that. But even if he doesn't, I can't blame him for acting how he feels he must.
Post by
Skreeran
You can't say that if
you
were Varian, you wouldn't want to kill her. Someone just coming up and telling you that she wasn't under her own power when she killed your dad... that's not going to stop you from wanting to kill her. In fact, it would probably make you want to kill her, and kill whoever else was responsible.
I'm not saying she deserves to die, but I will admit that Varian wanting her dead is completely justified.Of course...
But the fact remains, she doesn't deserve to die, but Darkton is practically cheering for her death. That's what I don't understand.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm not saying she deserves to die, but I will admit that Varian wanting her dead is completely justified.Aye, as said before, but if he acts on it... he's no better then she is in all honesty.
True, and maybe he will realize that. But even if he doesn't, I can't blame him for acting how he feels he must.
It's just, killing her now doesn't help anything, and can in fact screw over Stormwind big time; after all, the Guardian is her son, so I can't see him being too happy and willingly to help the man who murdered his mother.
Post by
HiVolt
Well, taking a character that you like and making them suffer a tragedy might make anyone think that the person who caused it, however indirectly, needs to be punished for it.
For instance, if someone were to kill Varok while mind-controlled, and was unable to break this mind-control, I would think that they need to be put down. If not just to give justice to Varok, but to make sure they can do no harm to anyone else. And I would also think that the source needed to be taken care of.
As I've said in other matters... ignorance is no defense. Regardless of whether she was mind-controlled or not, she needs to face what she's done, and let justice be served. That may or may not consist of her death, I don't know. Despite the fact that she may have been out of control of her actions... it still happened, and justice must be served for that.
Post by
Adamsm
She is 'freed', in that the last member of the Shadow Council, the only ones who knew the words of Command are dead. She has gone off with Meryl to hunt the remaining members of the Twilight Hammer who had served Cho'gall, and Valeera is on her way back to Stormwind to inform the King what had been occurring since she last saw him.
Post by
HiVolt
I know, I'm just trying to get a feel for the other side of things here. As much as I don't like the fact, I can't say that her death wouldn't serve as a justice, at least on a personal level, for Varian and for the people of Stormwind.
Post by
Adamsm
Have you considered creating an article based off of this Hivolt?
I know, I'm just trying to get a feel for the other side of things here. As much as I don't like the fact, I can't say that her death wouldn't serve as a justice, at least on a personal level, for Varian and for the people of Stormwind.It would and wouldn't; well it would give 'closure' for certain people... the flip side is just too large: Varian kills Garona, which in turn could cause Maarad and Med'an to turn against the humans. With Med'an that means the Guardian is gone from protection for the people of Stormwind, and with Maarad, as we don't know just how much pull and clout he has on the Draenei side, might cause them to stop assisting the humans, as they aren't fond of revenge motivated killings and the like; hits a little to close to home for them.
Post by
HiVolt
Double post ftl but....
Have you considered creating an article based off of this Hivolt?
Heh, not exactly. Seems like an interesting concept for an article though. I'll outline it and stick it in my ideas folder.
Post by
HiVolt
It would and wouldn't; well it would give 'closure' for certain people... the flip side is just too large: Varian kills Garona, which in turn could cause Maarad and Med'an to turn against the humans. With Med'an that means the Guardian is gone from protection for the people of Stormwind, and with Maarad, as we don't know just how much pull and clout he has on the Draenei side, might cause them to stop assisting the humans, as they aren't fond of revenge motivated killings and the like; hits a little to close to home for them.
Well, Maarad would have to have some huge pull in the Exodar to make that happen. Also, it would only be labeled as a revenge killing if there was no judgment process to be had. If Garona was brought to Stormwind to stand trial, it would just be well... justice. Varian may want to kill her, but he also wanted her released into his custody to stand trial in Stormwind.
And about Med'an... that is the one factor that I see as plausible. Med'an is pretty attached to his mother. Then again, with him being the Guardian, he vows to protect
Azeroth
from the Burning Legion. Like it or not, that includes Stormwind. I can understand him being distraught, but I honestly don't see him breaking that oath in order to exact revenge on Varian.
Post by
Skreeran
Maybe not exact revenge on Stormwind, but I certainly can't see him going out of his way to protect them after that, nor the rest of the council for that matter. He knew the truth about her, Jaina knew, Valeera knew, and now Varian knows. For him to kill her even after he gets the facts, I'm sure that that would be looked down upon by those in the know.
Post by
HiVolt
Maybe not exact revenge on Stormwind, but I certainly can't see him going out of his way to protect them after that, nor the rest of the council for that matter. He knew the truth about her, Jaina knew, Valeera knew, and now Varian knows. For him to kill her even after he gets the facts, I'm sure that that would be looked down upon by those in the know.
Probably. But what if it wasn't for revenge, but for justice for the people of Stormwind? HYPOTHEITCAL: Let's say Varian no longer has hatred toward Garona, but still thinks that she needs to be brought to Stormwind to stand trial for what she's done... what then?
Would his colleagues and friends think any less of him for that? Would the Council look down on it?
Post by
Skreeran
I think that they would.
After all, Dr. Samuel Mudd was thought to be in cahoots with John Wilkes Booth in the assassination of Preseident Lincoln, but it would have done the country no good to pretend that he wasn't innocent and kill him to make the country feel better.
And Varian is out for revenge for his father's death, but what about Med'an and his mother? Who's to say he wouldn't feel just as wronged as Varian did and go out for blood, just like Varian did? Or Maraad, who also feels a personal attachment to her. He knows she's innocent, and I doubt he'd just sit by and let it happen.
Overall, I do not approve of killing a virtually innocent person who is filled with remorse for her unwilling actions. Especially not if she has a family.
Post by
HiVolt
Overall, this is a very personal matter... one that's not going to be solved on that personal level until one person or the other dies, more than likely.
Oh well, it's been interesting trying to look at this from the other side of the fence. Perspective is an amazing thing.
I'm still waiting on those Tharona babies though...
Post by
Adamsm
Well, Maarad would have to have some huge pull in the Exodar to make that happen. Also, it would only be labeled as a revenge killing if there was no judgment process to be had.I only made mention of that because Maarad is a Vindicator (which is equal to Captains and above for the human forces), so as I said, we have no true idea how much clout he has among the armed forces of the Exodar, or with Velen. We know he can speak openly with Khadgar(proved earlier in the comics), so the Naaru know of him too.... and we know the Crystaline being's feelings on unneeded death and pain. Something else to consider is Khadgar himself; even after all this time, when he is told Garona is alive and fairly well... he was happy about it. I don't think Young(to his point of view)Trust has ever truly believed that Garona killed Llane for no reason, and it could be, upon hearing of her death, the Archmage and ear to the Naaru might become peeved.
Heh, just look at all the connections; still, here's hoping Varian will realize it's useless to attempt to get revenge after 20 years.
Post by
HiVolt
I finished that article on the Burning Blade, it's up on the site if you guys want to take a look.
Post by
451455
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Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
If Varian where to capture Garona, and publicly excute her in front of everyone in Stormwind, then I can saftly promise you the people of Stormwind would be cheering thier heads off.I doubt that, most of Stormwind has no idea who she is after all; all they would see would be someone be executed. Most of the World, including Varian himself, thought she was dead till she was used by the Council against him.
The thing is that in Varian's POV, he doesnt want his father to die for nothing and has spent 20 years thinking that Garona only pretended to be his friend to eventually kill him.And that's acceptable... but killing the person for no reason? When she had no control over what she was forced to do?
And as for what Med'an and Maraad would do, we learn at the end of issue #25 that they should know about this, since Garona states that Varian has his hounds on her, in frount of the Council.
Thats quite interesting, that they know he wants her dead...Right, doesn't mean their going to turn over their family member for death. Killing Garona could have major consequences beyond satisfying someone's thirst for revenge. As stated; really doubt the Guardian is going to want to assist Stormwind and their king after he kills his mother. Same with Maarad; he's from a race that's not into the whole "Kill for Revenge" thing, so there's another problem. And, as I said, even after all these years, and knowing that Garona wasn't under control when she killed Llane, means Khadgar still thinks of her as a friend, so there's another person you don't want to make angry.
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