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Post by
matheus314
And Kaelynara wasn't falling off the wagon, she simply wanted revenge on her master who coldly dismissed her in a pretty cruel way (come on, not even a letter of recommendation? that's cruel)
What do you think that came first? Kaelynara's thirst for power or her master's disdain to teach her any further?
Post by
Adamsm
The Rangari are the protectors of the Draenei and their prime scouts/spies....what do you expect the people charged with protecting their race to think?
Post by
Rankkor
And Kaelynara wasn't falling off the wagon, she simply wanted revenge on her master who coldly dismissed her in a pretty cruel way (come on, not even a letter of recommendation? that's cruel)
What do you think that came first? Kaelynara's thirst for power or her master's disdain to teach her any further?
She never had a thirst for power as an apprentice. Her master dismissed her because he deemed her incompetent. So yeah.......
The Rangari are the protectors of the Draenei and their prime scouts/spies....what do you expect the people charged with protecting their race to think?
Still a jerk thing to say. Particularly when
they
need our help more than we need theirs. His own world and people are not exactly squeaky clean for him to be saying that we are unworthy of trust.
This is why I feel more "at home" on the horde campaign. With the frostwolves you can feel the fellowship, and the camaraderie. With the draenei, you always feel like an outsider that no matter how hard works his or her ass off, will always be looked at with suspicion at best, or prejudice at worst.
Look at that alliance general that used to be in front of the dark portal. Racist to the draenei, racist to the worgen. Its like that close-knit family bond isn't there. At least I haven't felt it. Within their own races, sure, there is love, and appreciation, particularly with dwarves and gnomes. But as a whole? not really.
Whereas with the frostwolves, after you earn their initial trust saving Drek'thar and further cement their trust by saving Wor'gol, they treat you like family, like one of their own, like you belong. No high-and-mighty attitude, no holier-than-thou, no looking-down-their nose. In their eyes, you're one of them, regardless of the color of your skin, or your race. They even address you as "Wolf-brother" or "Wolf-Sister". The only thing I'm sad is that there is no quest to earn our own frostwolf companion like each of the clan do. We get one by being exalted with them, but no lore attached, its just a mount like any other.
I just didn't see that on the draenei with the exception of Yrel and Velen.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
matheus314
Daaayyummm you're so biased...
Post by
Rankkor
Rankorr, they're two entirely different peoples. Look at the draenie in their current circumstance. They're in the middle of losing their newfound homeland, a place of peace they thought they had won, being turned upon by the orcs they thought were quiet enough, with no assistance from basically any of the other societies. They're churning on the inside with Sargeri, there's Gul'Dan threatening to bring the legion down on their head, Ner'zhul waving around the very antithesis of the light at them. Time after time again it's proved that they can't trust others, let alone themselves (Socrethar?). And the ones you win are loyal. When they are on your side,
they are on your side.
I'm not saying I blame him, maybe (and this is a big maybe) he has his reasons for his mistrust, but it doesn't changes the fact that it is still a jerk thing to say.
At least he's neither the one in charge, nor in the majority with those anti-foreigner sentiments.
Still, it denotes a degree of ignorance that he'd so callously be willing to dismiss others based on the pretext "they produced monsters" when his own people have produced worse. At the very least he could come up with a better excuse like, "We've been backstabbed so many times, we just don't know who to trust anymore, what makes you so special that you deserve our trust?"
THAT I'd be able to understand. But saying "your world produced horrible people, why should we trust you" sounds incredibly hollow coming from him, considering the kind of monsters his people and world have churned.
Its like an amani troll accusing someone else of being a racist.
Daaayyummm you're so biased...
A person CAN be biased and still be right. Having an inclination towards something doesn't automatically renders any thought opinion and argument null. That's a logical fallacy.
Post by
Adamsm
I just didn't see that on the draenei with the exception of Yrel and Velen.Nobundo, Akama, Maladaar; as soon as you prove yourself to them, they stop mistrusting you and start working side by side with no complaints and in fact praise you at times. But the fact is, the driving force behind the war this time came from Prime Azeorth; the thing that turned the Orcs into the Iron Horde, destroyed cities, razed lands and caused a massive ^&*! ton of damage....can you blame the people who are the protectors from not taking that well?
Post by
Atik
Not to mention the fact that all of the Iron Horde's war machines came from Prime Azeroth's advanced technology, thus meaning that we gave them MANY more monsters than they've given us.
Post by
Adamsm
Admiral Taylor's Garrison Log
That...is an interesting read.
Post by
Rankkor
I just didn't see that on the draenei with the exception of Yrel and Velen.Nobundo, Akama, Maladaar; as soon as you prove yourself to them, they stop mistrusting you and start working side by side with no complaints and in fact praise you at times.
Hmm you may have a point with nobundo, I wasn't able to get as far as talador on my alliance toon on the beta, so I don't really know how he reacts to you.
Akama shows up more than once? he has a really nice and awesome intro on shadowmoon and then disappointingly never shows up again. Ever. He has a total of ONE line of dialog on the final scenario on karabor but that's it, he does nothing in there, just says his line and goes back into the corner. (Unless that changed from the beta to live)
Point taken on maladar, now that I think of it, after rescuing him from tanaan he becomes our most fiercest advocate until Yrel becomes enough of a somebody that her word counts too.
But the fact is, the driving force behind the war this time came from Prime Azeorth; the thing that turned the Orcs into the Iron Horde, destroyed cities, razed lands and caused a massive ^&*! ton of damage....can you blame the people who are the protectors from not taking that well
/shrug. Its a give-and-take
Yes the things that made the Iron Horde what they are came from azeroth. But a lot of evil came TO azeroth from draenor. Including Gul'dan and his shadow council. Cho'gall and his twilight hammer. And several other evil draenei.
Like I said,
maybe
he's justified in saying that. But it doesn't make it any less of an ass thing to say. Specially at that point in the story when we have more than proved ourselves as honorable allies, and bailed their asses out of the fire more times than we can count.
Ingrate much?
Admiral Taylor's Garrison Log
That...is an interesting read.
That book gave me a lot of perspective. Thank the heavens WE don't have to deal with all those pesky logistics of actually managing a stronghold on a foreign land :P we just go in, reap the rewards, and go out for more adventuring. Warmaster Zog, and that gilnean girl are the ones doing all the work for us.
Post by
Atik
Looking at that, though.
It would be kind of interesting to, at some point, come back to find your Garrison in chaos, your guards hostile. You break through to your command tent, where you discover that someone has taken over and convinced your crew that you're a traitor or something.
Post by
matheus314
But the fact is, the driving force behind the war this time came from Prime Azeorth; the thing that turned the Orcs into the Iron Horde, destroyed cities, razed lands and caused a massive ^&*! ton of damage....can you blame the people who are the protectors from not taking that well
/shrug. Its a give-and-take
Yes the things that made the Iron Horde what they are came from azeroth. But a lot of evil came TO azeroth from draenor. Including Gul'dan and his shadow council. Cho'gall and his twilight hammer. And several other evil draenei.
HA! I liked that point of view. Because that includes Garrosh himself, an "original product" from Draenor. So that disproves that particular Rangari right on as he's just ignorant about the situation that is presented to him.
Post by
oneforthemoney
But the fact is, the driving force behind the war this time came from Prime Azeorth; the thing that turned the Orcs into the Iron Horde, destroyed cities, razed lands and caused a massive ^&*! ton of damage....can you blame the people who are the protectors from not taking that well
/shrug. Its a give-and-take
Yes the things that made the Iron Horde what they are came from azeroth. But a lot of evil came TO azeroth from draenor. Including Gul'dan and his shadow council. Cho'gall and his twilight hammer. And several other evil draenei.
HA! I liked that point of view. Because that includes Garrosh himself, an "original product" from Draenor. So that disproves that particular Rangari right on as he's just ignorant about the situation that is presented to him.
Well Garrosh before going to Azeroth was little more than a mopey whiner, so he has a point in that regard.
I imagine, though, if he knew more Azerothian history he might have more of a point. The place has produced some pretty bad monsters. Everything from evil immortal guardians to psychotic beauty queens and angry molten dragons, not counting literal evil gods because that's still up in the air. Oh, and every woman goes insane.
Post by
Rankkor
Just saw chromie on draenor, and she FINALLY has her own voice actress. And she sounds so adorable!!!!!!
Kawaii Desu (*^_^*)
Post by
matheus314
Just saw chromie on draenor, and she FINALLY has her own voice actress. And she sounds so adorable!
At the Inn? Or does her have any quest connection to Draenor's storyline?
Post by
Rankkor
She shows up in the legendary quest when you fight Kairoz
Here is some fridge logic from WoD (whoa, that didn't took long)
So I've noticed, that both in wowpedia, and in the game, the Shadowmoon Orcs are not considered part of the iron horde.
Seriously, they don't drop iron horde scraps, and during garrison invasions, they're a category of their own. I had my garrison invaded by the Iron Horde, and I could see Shattered Hand orcs, Blackrock Orcs, Thunderlords, and Warsong, but no shadowmoon anywhere. And then I see that they are a category apart. Wowpedia itself also lists them as no longer part of the iron horde.
And the reason for that seems to be, that they failed the Iron Horde when they couldn't take Karabor, so now, they are alone and beset on all sides. First by the draenei on one side, who are rightly pissed off at them for all the crap they did, secondly by the horde on another side, who are not exactly into void worship, and the iron horde on a third side, who are pissed off at them for failing.
But here's the thing:
The Thunderlords failed too
And I may even say their failure was worse than the Shadowmoon one, so why are they allowed in the iron horde?.
Sure the shadowmoon failed to take karabor, but at least they had the justification that their enemy was larger. There were A LOT of draenei in Shadowmoon Valley, and they got help from the alliance.
But the Thunderlord's failure is bigger because not only their enemy was way smaller (The frostwolf tribe is nowhere near the same size as the draenei) but also they had the help of the bladespire ogres (Whereas the shadowmoon had to fight alone) and they still failed. They failed to take on a small clan, with the help of ogres and gronn. And they were still forgiven and allowed in the iron horde.
Sense? that does not make.
Post by
oneforthemoney
I think it reflects a fundamental difference in philosophy between the two.
Shadowmoon are very much about worship, spiritualism, and the more abstract. They worship the void, now, and necromancy, all of their weapons and powers coming from the void itself. Indeed, you don't see them with gronn, or cannons, or anything really that normally characterize the Iron Horde.
The Iron Hoorde however are very big on brute strength and weapons. They have some dark shamans, but for the most part it's orcs with guns and gronn. The Thunderlord clan very much embraced the whole philosophy, and even provide an invaluable service in the breaking of the gronn and other beasts for the Iron Horde.
However, the Shadwmoon never really 'clicked' with the Iron Horde mind set, and after the destruction of the fleet and loss of the void star, they probably saw it as an excuse to finally be rid of those whose practices were probably a bit too close to those of warlocks for them to be comfortable. Hell, if not for the void star, Grommash would have wiped them out already, which is why Nerzhuel agreed to it in the first place.
Adding to that...I imagine Garrosh, having 'led' the Horde in Icecrown, was never exactly thrilled at seeing what would have become the Lich King around.
Post by
morginar
I'd follow that with that the shadowmoon has outlived their usefullness when they lost the darkstar whilst the Thunderlords keep brining in Gronns and make themself usefull.
And wasn't Gul'dan once shadowmoon? Might make some distrustful of them.
Post by
Adamsm
Also...just from what Ner'zhul is mumbling when you reach the Shadowmoon Burial Ground, it's more that he may have turned on them then the other way around.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Also...just from what Ner'zhul is mumbling when you reach the Shadowmoon Burial Ground, it's more that he may have turned on them then the other way around.
At least he's consistant.
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