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Post by
cephadex
As Kairoz proves it's still possible to travel through time, it's just they can't alter things any longer without using an outside source. The Aspects eyes went unglowy because they gave up their immortality and their 'official' standing as guardians...but they still posses immense power and abilities and so do their flights. But since the Earth Warder died without passing on his powers, no it wouldn't be possible for Wrath or Sabellian to take the mantle up.
And no, the Aspects are still going to be more powerful then Wrath...since you know, he's a two year old still in whelp form.
Again, sorry to be on about this, but Kairoz
can't
freely travel through time, he went through other means to be able to open the portal, and his entire motive for what he did was because he wanted to restore the bronze dragonflight to their former glory/regain the powers they once had. That is, it's not that he was able to travel in time due to bronze dragonflight powers.
In regard to wrathion/sabellian not being able to become the new aspect of earth, but didn't Malygos die before Kalecgos became the new aspect of magic? Malygos didn't pass the power voluntarily to him...
Post by
Adamsm
And Kalec was empowered by the Blue Flight, the Eye, the Focusing Iris and a certain planetary convergent; the Blacks don't have that anymore...plus you know, again, Deathwing took his powers with him when he was utterly destroyed.
Since Dawn of the Aspects makes it clear that Kalec still has his powers, just not as they were, it seems to me that they all do.
Edit: Also, the Alternate Me's that he dragged through; while it was the shattering of the Vision, he was still able to manipulate it to pull out those specific ones....so seems like they still have power over time.
Post by
cephadex
Edit: Also, the Alternate Me's that he dragged through; while it was the shattering of the Vision, he was still able to manipulate it to pull out those specific ones....so seems like they still have power over time.
I'm confused about this sentence. Are you referring to how during the trial, alternate versions of some of the characters appeared?
Because my understand was that this was the doing of infinite dragons, not kairoz, himself....
Edit: you're right, it was Kairoz doing that, not infinite dragons; but regardless, he used the Vision of Time for that, which was powered by stones from the Timeless Isle (which had time properties); there's nothing to say that summoning those alternate versions of people was done even partly through intrinsic powers Kairoz had as a bronze dragon. I thought it's implied that he doesn't have time powers anymore, by the fact that he invested himself so much in creating the Vision of Time and using it. That his motive in going so far as to ally with infinite dragons and so on was that he didn't like having lost the powers he once had.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't see it that way; we see the 'lesser' dragons able to do what they've always done, and since the Bronze created and empowered the Time walkers with watching over the different time lines, shows that there is still power there. Kairoz was nuts, it's that simple.
The Aspects told that the age of Mortals is beginning and they can give up their charge because they've stopped the Hour of Twilight from happening...but that doesn't mean they lost everything in one go: They still have their powers, if they didn't then the Greens wouldn't be able to go into the Dream, the Bronzes would not have been able to create the Time Walkers, the Blues wouldn't be traveling the world searching for magical artifacts and the Reds would not be trying to help heal the scars in the land and people.
Post by
cephadex
I don't see it that way; we see the 'lesser' dragons able to do what they've always done, and since the Bronze created and empowered the Time walkers with watching over the different time lines, shows that there is still power there. Kairoz was nuts, it's that simple.
The Aspects told that the age of Mortals is beginning and they can give up their charge because they've stopped the Hour of Twilight from happening...but that doesn't mean they lost everything in one go: They still have their powers, if they didn't then the Greens wouldn't be able to go into the Dream, the Bronzes would not have been able to create the Time Walkers, the Blues wouldn't be traveling the world searching for magical artifacts and the Reds would not be trying to help heal the scars in the land and people.
You're right at least to some extent - but if Kairoz hadn't lost his powers, then why would he even need the vision of time? The vision of time allows him to glimpse certain moments, while if he'd still had his powers, he'd be able to see all points in time freely.
Also, I'm no expert, but in the wowpedia entry on kalecgos in regard to Dawn of the Aspects, it says:
The loss of his powers hit Kalecgos hardest
of all the Aspects. His attempts to keep the Wrymrest Accord together proved fruitless among his peers doubts about their purpose on Azeroth without their powers. After discovering a mysterious artifact in the heart of Northrend, Kalecgos sees visions through the eyes of Malygos. These memories are of the original Aspects when they were still proto-dragons uniting against the threat of Galakrond. Unfortunately the device was also slowly driving Kalec mad, causing him to wander aimlessly in human and dragon form until eventually being saved by Jaina. His sanity restored, Kalec used the device as it was intended by it's creator Tyr,
to remind the other Aspects that they were capable of great things together even before they had their powers, and that they could still do so again in this new Age.
So doesn't that mean they did lose their powers?
Post by
Adamsm
Again, they lost the powers that were imbued on them by the Titans; but the actual flight based powers are still there.
Post by
Orranis
Again, they lost the powers that were imbued on them by the Titans; but the actual flight based powers are still there.
So, uh, what were the Titans powers if they were separate from the flight based powers?
Post by
Adamsm
Again, they lost the powers that were imbued on them by the Titans; but the actual flight based powers are still there.
So, uh, what were the Titans powers if they were separate from the flight based powers?
Saw that in Dawn of the Aspects with what the Proto-drakes could do. As for what they were, you saw that in the fight against Deathwing in Day of the Dragon. The power to speed up/slow down personal time for Noz, the ability to thrust people into endless dreaming for Ysera, Maly's more powerful blows and Alex able to force Deathwing to feel the pain she had suffered at the hands of the Orcs almost a thousand fold.
The Titan powers were what made them the Aspects over the 'lesser' members of their flight; while those powers are gone(which included the immortality as opposed to longevity) they still have the powers that a member of that specific flight is able to pull off....which you saw with what Wrath did all expansion in using the power of the Blacks to forge the 'ultimate' weapon.
Edit: Which is why I don't believe that the Flights have lost all of their powers; we see them still doing the same things they did before the Aspects gave up their own powers to finish Deathwing. If they had all lost their abilities totally, then how would Wrath and Kaioz been able to pull off the things they do; yes Kaioz had an artifact to help amplify his powers, but he would still need some manipulation over time in the first place to do what he did....especially after shattering the Vision.
I know we need to wait for the official word, but as the over all message of Dawn of the Aspects is that the Dragon Flights could not withdraw from the world(which is why Kalec was down as he was trying to convince Noz, Ysera and Alexa to not do that) since even if the age of the Aspects was done and the age of Mortals was starting, it didn't mean they were useless.
Post by
matheus314
I got a question here:
Is there ANY hint on the WoD questlines about WHY Khadgar thinks it's a good idea to release Teron'gor, Cho'gall and Gul'dan from their "dark portal fueling" positions and let them go free in the world?
It's not like they'll be up to ANYTHING good. Right?
Post by
Rankkor
I got a question here:
Is there ANY hint on the WoD questlines about WHY Khadgar thinks
it's a good idea
to release Teron'gor, Cho'gall and Gul'dan from their "dark portal fueling" positions and let them go free in the world?
It's not like they'll be up to ANYTHING good. Right?
He doesn't. He's horrified at having to do it, but its either releasing them, or the iron horde marches through the portal and we have a devastating war on azeroth that we may or may not win, but would doubtlessly devastate the land and cause the deaths of lots of innocent people.
He basically chooses the lesser of two evils. Released or not, they're still contained in Alternate!Draenor, along with the Iron Horde, thus remaining harmless for the people on our world.
Neither him nor the rest of the horde and alliance expeditions sit on their asses after this is done, and a considerable amount of time and resources are spent in trying to locate them and kill them before they make an already bad situation worse by calling the legion.
Kadghar specifically devotes all of his attention and all of his time exclusively and specifically on locating and killing Gul'dan as soon as possible, leaving the actual fight with the Iron Horde to the rest of the alliance and the horde.
Post by
Adamsm
Hm...re-read Warrior Made and one of the back ground pics had floating isles in Nagrand before the destruction.
Post by
cephadex
Yeah, and they also have a red-colored original Quel'thalas in Dath'remar's comic book depiction, they're not consistent on all the details.
Post by
Rankkor
It happens. Sylvanas' short story has a few inconsistencies with ingame lore too, and there were a couple of mistakes on some of the books.
Characterization goes back and fort depending on what author is writing what. Its kinda sad that they don't fact-check their expanded universe stuff a little better.
Post by
Monday
Reminds me of Star Wars. Lucas let pretty much whatever he wanted pass, which meant that the lore got incredibly twisted (and frankly kinda stupid).
Post by
Adamsm
I dunno...nothing reaches the level of the stuff from the prequels.
Post by
oneforthemoney
To be fair, Lucas said only the movies were canon. So he at least did something, the laziest thing true, but something, to avoid everyone else shooting him in the foot.
Post by
Adamsm
To be fair, Lucas said only the movies were canon. So he at least did something, the laziest thing true, but something, to avoid everyone else shooting him in the foot.
Yeah....he was quite good at that himself :P But yes, Disney has since declared everything but the movies, the prequels and the CGI Clone Wars series as canon; which sucks majorly since the Cartoon Network Clone Wars mini-series was great, and now pretty much everything from the Old Republic days doesn't matter.
Post by
cephadex
Tbh, there's something that bothers me a little about the way they handled the floating isles-to-be in Draenor-Nagrand. This is a bit difficult to describe in words; I thought the floating isles in Outland-Draenor had a shape that would suggest they used to be part of a continuous area of earth that crumbled into pieces later to result in the floating isles. In contrast, the way they ended up actually putting them in on Draenor makes it look like they were already in the "pieces" shape even when they were still part of a larger rock formation. It looks very pretty, but I feel like that wasn't the point of the shape they were in as isles.
I don't know if the way I described it makes any sense so
here's a diagram
(but I'm no artist, sorry).
Post by
Rankkor
I dunno...nothing reaches the level of the stuff from the prequels.
Wrong.
Among some of the dumbest things on the expanded universe, was a rabbit jedi master. No, not a humanoid rabbit like Buggs Bunny, I mean an actual
RABBIT jedi master
. Though there were
Humanoid Rabbits
too.
It doesn't get any stupider than that.(##RESPBREAK##)520##DELIM##Rankkor##DELIM##
Post by
Adamsm
I dunno...nothing reaches the level of the stuff from the prequels.
Wrong.
Among some of the dumbest things on the expanded universe, was a rabbit jedi master. No, not a humanoid rabbit like Buggs Bunny, I mean an actual
RABBIT jedi master
. Though there were
Humanoid Rabbits
too.
It doesn't get any stupider than that.
Ikrit kicked ass....which is more then you can say of whiny Annie, Jar-Jar the living horrific stereotype, the moody Annie, the narntastic No of Vader....sorry Rank, but the expanded had good plots and story lines that the prequels &*!@ all over.
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