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Post by
Monday
Lots of gnomes in the invasion force, as well as one of the main SI7 people is a gnome.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that the gnomes as a whole want war, or that their government supports it.
And I wasn't comparing it to the Camp. Camp Taurajo is completely irrelevant to this. I was comparing it to the Purge and explaining why they're different.
Post by
Rankkor
I actually mentioned both (Camp and Purge) and how despite being horrible deeds by the alliance, they are never brought up again, or hammered down over and over like theramoore was.
And don't try to play off the Purge of Dalaran as a bloodless event because it wasn't. People died in there. Lots of them. Not all the blood elves went willingly to a cage, a large number put up a fight and were killed off. Civilians included. And lots others that weren't killed were still tortured and beaten to a pulp.
And yet nobody bats an eye at this ONCE.
But hey, lets have one city destroyed, even when 99% of the casualties were military, in an ongoing war, of which said city was an open participant and from which many attacks were staged, and suddenly they're playing it off like one of the most monstrous, and god-awful things one could do. And lets keep repeating this over and over and over and over again.
Since the massacre of taurajo happened, its been brought up again exactly ONCE, and it was horde leaders basically saying "they had it coming" WTF?. Since the purge happened, its been brought up again exactly NEVER. Lor'themar makes a demand to jaina to release the rest of the hostages but she doesn't respond and that's the last time the purge is even alluded to.
Since Theramoore happened, its been brought up again at least 5 times in Pandaria (Starting with Admiral Rogers' speech before the initial landing. Speech that, by the way, is made of 80% pure bullsh**) its been brought up again in War Crimes several times, and god only knows how many more times it will be brought up again in WoD.
Post by
Adamsm
Lots of gnomes in the invasion force, as well as one of the main SI7 people is a gnome.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that the gnomes as a whole want war, or that their government supports it. May want to go check out the Hightinker's quotes from Siege before you say that.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Ugh, not Taurajo again.
It was literally in the way to Mulgore. You go to Mulgore, you're going through Taurajo. It was destined to be hit in a war. It was built right outside the choke point. That's all there is to it. Yes, it's sad that civilians died there, but yes, there were attempts to avoid those casualties. They didn't work out well.
Post by
Monday
But hey, lets have one city destroyed, even when 99% of the casualties were military, in an ongoing war, of which said city was an open participant and from which many attacks were staged, and suddenly they're playing it off like one of the most monstrous, and god-awful things one could do. And lets keep repeating this over and over and over and over again.
And whoa, they said the same thing about Pearl Harbor. My analogy still stands.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Rank, it's not just about Theramore being destroyed. It's how it was. First use of MAD's by the Horde because everyone just ignores Sylvanas constantly using the Blight. That's the real problem people had with it. When Garrosh did that, he not only put the Sunreavers in an extremely awkward position, but he basically said 'I'm willing to use these things with a smile on my face'. It doesn't help that he had every intention of using it on the civilians while they were there.
But really, I've become inclined to think it may have been something more along the lines of a shame thing for the Horde. Even after using the mana bomb, their leaders still followed Garrosh. The cracks had formed, but it was only after Vol'jin was knifed that they finally said enough and truly broke away. By claiming this was the deal breaker, they divert attention from the fact that it wasn't, and that they kept following him up until the rebellion proper. Sullenly perhaps, but they still kept backing him.
Post by
Rankkor
Meh. I'm not denying it was a pretty ugly business. What I'm saying is that when its a HORDE ugly business its gonna be repeated ad nauseum, but whenever the alliance does any ugly business, its quickly brushed under the rug, never to be mentioned again.
That's annoying you know?
Post by
morginar
Like for example that sky admiral rogers mention southshore and is all "Revenge! Kill all orcs!"
Post by
Rankkor
Yeah. One would think that killing surrendering unarmed troops (a war crime) would be brought up in a book called "War Crimes".
But nope, lets sweep that under the blue/gold rug.
Anyways, moving on, it seems some of the datamined quests confirm why the alliance and horde are working together even if they're not hugging and kissing, and why the Frostwolves and Alternate!Draenei are not enemies:
They were captured together in tanaan to be sacrificed to fuel the dark portal. As part of the intro quest you gotta free frostwolf orcs and karabor draenei with Thrall and Maraad.
And yes, the climax of this alliance culminates in a joint attack on Sharrath to pry it from the iron horde.
Post by
Rankkor
The brutal siege of Orgrimmar may be over, but Garrosh Hellscream, the most infamous orc on Azeroth, has yet to face justice. Bound in chains by his enemies, the deposed tyrant of the Horde must now answer for his crimes. Alongside renowned leaders from across Azeroth, you will bear witness to his long-awaited trial.
Visions of Garrosh’s past atrocities are presented in vivid detail for all to see. But as history is revisited, old grievances and bitter memories come to light, and those in attendance begin to wonder if anyone among them is truly innocent. Mounting tensions and rising enmity steer the court to the brink of chaos . . . as the world waits with bated breath for the verdict on the war crimes of Garrosh Hellscream.
War Crimes
, the new World of Warcraft novel by author Christie Golden, follows the dramatic events that grip Azeroth in the wake of the siege of Orgrimmar . . . and delves into long-buried secrets that may have been best left uncovered. Pick up your copy today to learn just what the future holds for the residents of Azeroth and the recently dethroned warchief of the Horde.
Buy now
To learn more about the new novel, check out the WoW Insider
interview
with Christie Golden, and read on for a sneak peek at a chapter from the book.
Excerpt — Chapter 12
There was still some time left before court resumed. She always thought better in her own realm; in the Undercity, beneath lowering skies and surrounded by the Forsaken, who entrusted themselves to her guidance. She would let them, let her home, inspire her.
She approached the mage assigned to the court, Yu Fei, and requested a portal. Just as Yu Fei had finished murmuring the words of the spell and an image of the Undercity appeared before her, another pandaren, whom she did not know, raced up.
“Lady Sylvanas,” he said, “my apologies, but I was instructed to give this to you!” He pressed a scroll and a small package wrapped in blue cloth into her hands. Stepping back quickly, he bowed. Even as Sylvanas opened her mouth to inquire who had sent said scroll, the air shimmered around her and she manifested in her quarters.
They were spare, as befitted one who did not linger overlong in them. Sylvanas Windrunner no longer needed sleep as such, though she did come here from time to time simply to be alone and to think. She had few belongings: a bed hung with heavy, dark drapes; a desk with candles and writing materials; a chair; and a single shelf lined with a half-dozen books. Select weapons were displayed on the wall within easy reach. She needed very little else in her present existence; and she did not keep much from her past one.
Curious as to who might be sending her a missive and a package, and cautious about opening them, Sylvanas inspected the scroll thoroughly. She sensed no magic from it, nor did she notice any telltale signs that would alert her to poison. The scroll was sealed with red wax, but there was no identifying mark. Turning her attention to the package, Sylvanas noted that the blue cloth was an item commonly sold in all major cities. She shook it gently, and something clinked inside. Sinking down on the soft bed, she then removed her gloves, cracking the seal with a fingernail.
The handwriting was elegant, the lines few:
Once we were on the same side.
Perhaps we can be again.
Sylvanas narrowed her eyes speculatively, trying to think who this mystery person might be. The handwriting wasn’t immediately recognizable, but it was somehow familiar. She had a rather lengthy list of people who had turned against her, or whom she had defied. Amused, she unwrapped the parcel and opened the small wooden box.
Her chest contracted, and she dropped the package as if it had bitten her.
The banshee stared at its contents, then rose and unsteadily made her way to her desk. Her fingers shook as she unlocked a drawer. Here, untouched for years, was all that remained of her past. There were only a few items; decades-old letters, arrowheads from significant kills, some other odds and ends; the detritus of a life.
And a small box.
Part of her urged her to throw the new gift inside this drawer, turn the key, and forget, again. No good could come of this. And yet . . . .
Holding the box, she returned to the bed. With unwonted gentleness, Sylvanas lifted the lid and gazed at what was inside. An adventurer had found this, several years ago, lying among the ruins of the spire where she had fallen. It had been returned to her. The memories it unleashed had nearly broken her then, and threatened to do so now.
Such a small thing, to have such power over the Banshee Queen: a simple piece of jewelry. Sylvanas picked up the necklace, letting the cool metal rest in her hand and gazing at the blue, winking gem that adorned it. Gently she placed it down next to the one she had just received.
They were a perfect match, save for the gemstones; hers was a sapphire, this was a ruby. Different too Sylvanas knew, were the inscriptions.
She opened hers and read:
To Sylvanas. Love always, Alleria.
Alleria . . . the second of the Windrunners to have left them. First had been their brother, Lirath, the youngest of them all, and perhaps the brightest. Then Alleria, lost beyond the Dark Portal in Outland.
Then . . . .
Sylvanas shook her head, reclaiming her composure. Of the Windrunner immediate family, she was certain of only one who yet drew breath.
Sylvanas opened the ruby locket, knowing what she would find, but needing to see it with her own eyes.
To Vereesa. With love, Alleria.
Well, it seems that the list of spoilers I posted a few days ago is 100% true. The excerpt from chapter 12 matches word-for-word the spoilers regarding sylvannas.
Edit: Also BLARG, the localizer staff tags are totally messed up after the revamp of the site.
/sadpanda.
Post by
morginar
Sylvanas worries about poison?
Otherwise it was fine and adorable.
And now we know how Sylvanas chamber looks like. And it doesn't have kolitra chained to a wall.
Post by
Rankkor
Sylvanas worries about poison?
As she herself demonstrated with the blight, its entirely possible to poison the undead.
Post by
morginar
But isn't blight closer to a acid that turns one into green goo?
Poison =\= Acid WMD goo thingy.
Post by
Rankkor
But isn't blight closer to a acid that turns one into green goo?
Poison =\= Acid WMD goo thingy.
its effects depend on the strength of the strain used. The lich king visibly coughs when he breathes it on the wrathgate cinematic.
On weaker strains it causes violent coughing and asphyxiation (you saw Bolvar basically choking to death, as he was somewhat a few paces away from the impact point of the canisters). The more concentrated strains can cause actual corrosion (That one orc in the wrathgate cinematic has his face melting off........ yuck)
Plus in Rise of the Lich King, sylvanas personally oversaw the testing of the blight by pouring a liquid form of it down the throat of a forsaken, and saw him choke to death. So yeah, undead can still be poisoned like anyone else.
Post by
Adamsm
Of course Undead can still be poisoned...or else Rogue poisons would have been useless on Scourge forces. ;P
Post by
Rankkor
Of course Undead can still be poisoned...or else Rogue poisons would have been useless on Scourge forces. ;P
errr game mechanics are different.
After all, we can poison and stack bleeds on rock and metallic enemies :P
As far as I know, metal doesn't bleed.
Of course, the game used to be more realistic on that regard. Mechanic enemies were immune to every non-magical dot. Diseases, poisons, bleeds, you name it. Ditto for rock enemies.
Post by
Adamsm
Yeah but paralytic poisons are shown to be effective on corpses; Sylvanas did that to Arthas during Warcraft 3 when she tried her coup.
The Blight is not a true poison; it is a type of acid that turns anything it touches into a liquid goo. Had a barrel landed on the Lich King, it would have more then likely degraded the undead body from the inside out, same as it did to that Orc. Those who breath in the fumes do not get the full effect, but it does hurt them, since it's trying to turn their innards into jelly.
The Undead killed in Rise of the King died the same way; his insides liquified and he dropped over dead, since he couldn't have 'choked' to death...the Undead have no need for air beyond helping them to talk.
Poisons can work...just not poisons that are designed to kill someone by causing the system to shut down, since pretty much all of them would be attacking parts of the body that the Undead do not use anymore.
Post by
Skreeran
Well it's not really a type of acid. It's biological in nature. I'd imagine it's some kind of hyper-metabolic flesh eating bacteria.
Post by
Rankkor
its too ambiguous to really discern WHAT it really is. We've seen it on too many forms, gas, slime, liquid. We've seen too many symptoms, disintegration, asphyxiation, mutation, and we've seen too many delivery methods, canisters shot from catapults, sprayers, etc.
Like the worgen curse, blizzard left way too much about it completely ambiguous about the blight. All that's clear is that its lethal, and it affects living and undead alike. And apparently there's many strains available, some of them permanently scorch the land (Southshore) while others just gas it and then become inert later (Gilneas, Wrathgate)
Post by
Adamsm
Well it's not really a type of acid. It's biological in nature. I'd imagine it's some kind of hyper-metabolic flesh eating bacteria.
That may be a bit of a stretch, but who knows.
its too ambiguous to really discern WHAT it really is. We've seen it on too many forms, gas, slime, liquid. We've seen too many symptoms, disintegration, asphyxiation, mutation, and we've seen too many delivery methods, canisters shot from catapults, sprayers, etc.
Like the worgen curse, blizzard left way too much about it completely ambiguous about the blight. All that's clear is that its lethal, and it affects living and undead alike. And apparently there's many strains available, some of them permanently scorch the land (Southshore) while others just gas it and then become inert later (Gilneas, Wrathgate)
But that was my point Rank; poisons do work on Undead, just not in the same way they affect other things. But yes there are different strains of the Blight but the primary one is the gas that causes your insides to seemingly liquify and want to be on the outside; watch the Wrathgate again and when the Lich King is coughing, it looks like something is coming up. Though the Wrathgate gas didn't go inert; it was burned out by Dragonfire.
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