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Post by
Rankkor
I don't know about that Rank; elves have long memories and even longer hatreds.
Yes, but as seen by the speech given by Lady Liandrin, at least the blood elves are TRYING to change. And had made steps to mend the fence. Meanwhile, the high elves remained butthurt and holdging the grudge all along for the past offense, to the point that when given the smallest excuse to act on their hate, they took it with glee, and killed as many of their kin as they could.
Morginar also raises several good points of other times where blood elves extended an olive branch to their kin, We have Liandrin on the sunwell, The leader of the Reliquary seeking a permanent cure of the magic addiction for all elvenkind, and even Harduron offering Vereesa a chance to fight the ancient enemy of quel'thalas side by side in zul'aman.
So yes adams, the blood elves tried their best to mend the fence, and it was the high elves who repaid all the hospitality, all the olive branches, and all the attempts at diplomacy with nothing but pure hatred and violence.
Also Morg, what's your battletag? (Assuming you play US and not EU)
Post by
Adamsm
,,,,You really can't blame them, not after what was done to them. Whether the Blood's are trying to make reparations or not isn't the point: The point is that Elves of Warcraft hold immense grudges and that's a part of who they are.
Post by
Rankkor
,,,,You really can't blame them, not after what was done to them.
Yes I can, because the blood elves tried to put it behind them, and if they could, so could the high elves if they wanted to. Hell, the blood elves were even willing to let go of their biggest grudge on their shoulders and rejoin the humans, this after another human had tried to genocide their entire race.
And trust me, no matter how big the offense was between High and Blood was, it pales in comparison between the grudge between Blood elves and Humans. If the Blood elves could learn to let go of even their grudge against humanity, then the high elves really truly have ZERO excuse for their behavior.
For a better example within the alliance, Night Elves let go of their grudge against the highborne, and again, that feud is far older, far nastier, and far more powerful than the paltry feud between high elvs and blood elves. IF night elves could let go of the past, so could teh high elves if they wanted to.
but they don't wanna.
Post by
Adamsm
Yes because it's so easy to forgive the people who drove you from your home, stole your land, attempted to corrupt your brethren, killed your brethren, and seemed to run gleefully towards the cliff of corruption....and then, after all of that, join up with the greenskins who attacked and burned the sacred forest and work side by side by the living dead, who just a few years ago, marched on the homeland and murdered the rightful king and blew up the Well.
It's not right, or fair, or even sane....but they have reasons to hate the Blood Elves, and expecting the High's to give it up in less then a few years is madness.
Also, the Night Elves as a whole have not forgiven the Highborne; without Malfurion and Tyrande pushing for it, most of the Night's would be fine with the Highbornes all vanishing into a hole and never coming back. There were those who supported Maiev's assassination attacks after all.
Post by
1014404
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Nope. Never betrayed the kirin tor. A loyal and upstanding member to the end, until they repaid his loyalty with betrayal.
I'm pretty sure taking part in the murder of the Leader of the Kirin Tor counts as betraying the Kirin Tor.
It would count, but neither him nor the rest of the sunreavers had any involvement in that. It was the actions of a double-agent whitin their numbers, and to punish the rest of the sunreavers for the actions of a few saboteurs would be highly hypocritical of the alliance, given how many saboteurs were inside the church of holy light and NOTHING was done about it. They even went as far as to cover up the betrayal of their ranks to keep appearances of integrity and morality.
Pure hypocrisy at its finest.
They can't even be honest within themselves, you expect them to be honest with others?
I could also pointing out violating Dalaran neutrality is also betrayal, but I suppose that would underscale the former crime.
Again, it would, but he also had no involvement in that. Speaking of violating neutralities, Jaina blatantly aided the alliance in setting up the wards of Darnassus. Why isn't it a crime when
SHE
is the one violating neutralities like that?
As for your second point: Nope again. The blood elves had been working hard on mending the fence with the high elves for the whole exile thingie, including but not limited to, allowing the high elves to enter the sunwell to sate their hunger. Then the high elves repaid hospitality with betrayal.
Yes, how kind of the blood elves to share something they
did absolutely nothing to earn
made counterproductive actions to earn.
Yes the did. They fought tooth and nail to reclaim the well, if anything, it was the HIGH ELVES who did jack squat to take back the well, and yet the blood elves out of good will allowed them to use it.
this after another human had tried to genocide their entire race.
Like the orcs did?
pfft, please, the orcs didn't even came close. Plus the orcs were harshly punished for their crimes in the second war. Meanwhile, the humans under garithos werent. (I suppose they got karmic justice in the form of being brainwashed by the dreadlords, and later on killed by the forsaken)
Blood elves: We're gonna take one of you prisoner and force you to give us light!
Naaru: Okay. Meanwhile our disciple has just redeemed your own race for you, and we've decided to sacrifice one of your own for your sunwell.
Blood elves: nvm gimme.
The Shatrath-Blood elf cooperation during tbc was so ridiculous. This is actually the SECOND TIME blood elves abused the neutrality of a city.
o_O ok WTF?
What's the name of that videogame? it sounds interesting but it sure as hell doesn't sound like warcraft.
Post by
Adamsm
Same reason it wasn't a crime when the Kirin Tor set up the defenses of Theramore; they were not making an active push at that time.
Post by
Rankkor
Same reason it wasn't a crime when the Kirin Tor set up the defenses of Theramore; they were not making an active push at that time.
Not the same. In that time they voted on whether or not to aid the alliance, and the decision was made with a majority of votes within the Council of Six.
Jaina aiding the alliance was entirely onesided for her. As was everything related to the purge, bringing stormwind troops into the city, the whole business.
Post by
Adamsm
And look what happened at the end...she dragged the Tor back into the Alliance. That's all it was for.
Post by
1014404
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
morginar
Also Morg, what's your battletag? (Assuming you play US and not EU)
I'm EU, I come from a place called Sweden. If you have heard of the Kingdom.
And remember the kirin tor in ambermill? Isn't assulting the forsaken breaking the neutrality?
Rommath mentions when you chat with him at the mogu sha-box that Dalaran is favoring the boys in blue and is not so neutral. And Aethas is a idiot.
Who's Garithos?
His first name is othmar and his hobies are ethnic cleasning. His job is to lead the alliance. His first aperance was in Warcraft 3 TFT.
If you haven't heard his name before... How much lore have you read?
None of the blood elf (or even the Horde)
Liadrin says hi.
Post by
Adamsm
And remember the kirin tor in ambermill? Isn't assulting the forsaken breaking the neutrality?You mean the city that was behind a force field, and not actually assaulting them, or allying with the Worgen? The Forsaken hit them first, and they did it to the Kirin Tor left overs at the Crater during Vanilla as well.
Post by
morginar
And remember the kirin tor in ambermill? Isn't assulting the forsaken breaking the neutrality?You mean the city that was behind a force field, and not actually assaulting them, or allying with the Worgen? The Forsaken hit them first, and they did it to the Kirin Tor left overs at the Crater during Vanilla as well.
Acording to forsaken intel. Ambermill was planing to assult Sylvanas tropps from behind. Rather clever tact.
Post by
Adamsm
And according to Forsaken intel, RAS wasn't planning anything...I wouldn't depend on them lol.
Post by
Rankkor
Nope. Never betrayed the kirin tor. A loyal and upstanding member to the end, until they repaid his loyalty with betrayal.
I'm pretty sure taking part in the murder of the Leader of the Kirin Tor counts as betraying the Kirin Tor.
It would count, but neither him nor the rest of the sunreavers had any involvement in that. It was the actions of a double-agent whitin their numbers, and to punish the rest of the sunreavers for the actions of a few saboteurs would be highly hypocritical of the alliance, given how many saboteurs were inside the church of holy light and NOTHING was done about it. They even went as far as to cover up the betrayal of their ranks to keep appearances of integrity and morality.
As leader of the Sunreavers, it is his RESPONSIBILITY for the actions of every member, and he didn't get even a slap on the wrist.
Neither did malfurion when a CRAPLOAD of druids betrayed the alliance. Neither did anyone on the upper eschelons of the Church of Holy Light when so many of them turned traitors too. Neither did the nobles in stormwind when they sold varian out to slavery. How about the many traitors within the Kirin Tor during the Nexus War?
The sunreaver purge was nothing more than a witch hunt.
And Thalens quote
The Sunreavers will not be pleased. Mark my words, we're not an organization to be taken lightly
would strongly imply he was acting on behalf of the Sunreavers. And because he is now living freely in SIlvermoon, the blood elves clearly don't consider him a traitor.
Implied, not confirmed, he's a SPY after all, it was his job to convince friend and foe that his loyalties lied with the sunreavers but he was with garrosh all along.
And the blood elves don't consider him a traitor, the sunreavers do. Understand that there's a difference between Silvermoon elves, and Sunreaver Elves. The former work for the horde. The latter dont. Thalen pretended to be the latter, while secretly beign the former.
Is that so hard to comprehend?
I could also pointing out violating Dalaran neutrality is also betrayal, but I suppose that would underscale the former crime.
Again, it would, but he also had no involvement in that. Speaking of violating neutralities, Jaina blatantly aided the alliance in setting up the wards of Darnassus. Why isn't it a crime when
SHE
is the one violating neutralities like that?
He shifts quite nervously for someone so innocent.
Which brings us back to this:
3: Aethas is the leader of the sunreavers, and he shifted uncomfortably during a meeting. SO WHAT? I'll remind you this is the same man who voted in favor of helping the alliance when theramoore was being attacked and they asked for aid. Then he's the same man who also voted for Jaina to become leader of the Council of Six, once again breaking the draw. This is the same man who over and over expressed how his loyalty to Dalaran was higher than any warchief and that he would not endanger a 2000 year old friendship due to the whims of a warmonger. This is the same man who also tells every single horde player how he sees the horde as nothing more than a yoke on his people that they must be freed from. And this is the same man who was mediating between Silvermoon and Stormwind to MAKE THE BLOOD ELVES LEAVE THE HORDE AND JOIN THE ALLIANCE.
But no, lets have him shift nerviously at the very unstable, very psychotic, very delusional, very much angry, super powerful mage holding the staff of the most powerful archmage in history, supercharged with the last power of a demigod, specifically calling out for his head on a plate, and suddenly HE HAS TO BE GUILTY DAMMIT!!!!!
That is conjecture, he had nothing to do with anything regarding the theft of the bell.
Confining the Divine Bell in Darnassus is not an aggressive action. Raiding Darnassus is.
Nope, the theft was peaceful, nobody was killed in it. And considering the alliance stole the bell in the first place, is the horde stealing it back such a heinous action?
As for your second point: Nope again. The blood elves had been working hard on mending the fence with the high elves for the whole exile thingie, including but not limited to, allowing the high elves to enter the sunwell to sate their hunger. Then the high elves repaid hospitality with betrayal.
Yes, how kind of the blood elves to share something they
did absolutely nothing to earn
made counterproductive actions to earn.
Yes the did. They fought tooth and nail to reclaim the well, if anything, it was the HIGH ELVES who did jack squat to take back the well, and yet the blood elves out of good will allowed them to use it.
None of the blood elf (or even the Horde) actions throughout the entire expac had any impact on reviving the Sunwell whatsoever. They wouldn't even have the sunwell if not for the actions of a race they spent most of the arc terrorizing. It doesn't seem like goodwill for them to share something they didn't even earn.
If that's how you wanna look at it, that's your prerogative, but the blood elves did fought tooth and nail to reclaim the sunwell, and this is shown in several of the short stories and supplemental info on the game.
this after another human had tried to genocide their entire race.
Like the orcs did?
pfft, please, the orcs didn't even came close. Plus the orcs were harshly punished for their crimes in the second war. Meanwhile, the humans under garithos werent. (I suppose they got karmic justice in the form of being brainwashed by the dreadlords, and later on killed by the forsaken)
Thanks to the humans they didn't.
The same humans who then tried to genocide their entire race, then led an ethnic purge on them for no damned reason.
Blood elves: We're gonna take one of you prisoner and force you to give us light!
Naaru: Okay. Meanwhile our disciple has just redeemed your own race for you, and we've decided to sacrifice one of your own for your sunwell.
Blood elves: nvm gimme.
The Shatrath-Blood elf cooperation during tbc was so ridiculous. This is actually the SECOND TIME blood elves abused the neutrality of a city.
o_O ok WTF?
What's the name of that videogame? it sounds interesting but it sure as hell doesn't sound like warcraft.
This isn't from the old warcraft games. This would be
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
, mmkay?
Whoa they made another game called World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade? O_O Blizzard should sue those copycats.
Cuz on their game none of that crap you said happened.
Post by
Rankkor
Also Morg, what's your battletag? (Assuming you play US and not EU)
I'm EU, I come from a place called Sweden. If you have heard of the Kingdom.
=(
What a shame, I would had loved to add you on battletag. I have quite a few of the members of Lore&RP on it (Adamsm, Benzene, Skreeran, etc).
I gotta catch'em all.
Post by
Stabhorn
I gotta catch'em all.
I laughed.
Post by
1014404
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
man I'm not gonna bother arguing with you anymore if you're gonna resort to insults.
Believe what you wish. We're done talking.
Post by
1014404
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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