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Post by
Adamsm
Yea, they should have had someone else invade Gilneas; like the Naga or the Twilight's Hammer. An invasion there from the Firelands would have been cool.
That would have made no sense at all.
Post by
Stabhorn
Sure ot would have; Deathwing would have ordered his troops to destroy Gilneas. The Firelands part doesn't chronologically make sense, but it would have been cool.
Post by
Adamsm
Sure ot would have; Deathwing would have ordered his troops to destroy Gilneas. The Firelands part doesn't chronologically make sense, but it would have been cool.
Since a large majority of Gilneas takes place before the Cataclysm(IE Deathwing rising) no it wouldn't make any sense at all.
Post by
Snake387
Sure ot would have; Deathwing would have ordered his troops to destroy Gilneas. The Firelands part doesn't chronologically make sense, but it would have been cool.
Since a large majority of Gilneas takes place before the Cataclysm(IE Deathwing rising) no it wouldn't make any sense at all.
That isn't technically true. The cataclysm (when the land got fractured) is before the arrival of the forsaken, it's how they invaded by sea and I think how they broke through the wall. The worgen invasion is before but not the forsaken invasion.
Post by
Adamsm
Sure ot would have; Deathwing would have ordered his troops to destroy Gilneas. The Firelands part doesn't chronologically make sense, but it would have been cool.
Since a large majority of Gilneas takes place before the Cataclysm(IE Deathwing rising) no it wouldn't make any sense at all.
That isn't technically true. The cataclysm (when the land got fractured) is before the arrival of the forsaken, it's how they invaded by sea and I think how they broke through the wall. The worgen invasion is before but not the forsaken invasion.
The Forsaken sea strikes start before the land is sundered.
Post by
Rankkor
Sure ot would have; Deathwing would have ordered his troops to destroy Gilneas. The Firelands part doesn't chronologically make sense, but it would have been cool.
Since a large majority of Gilneas takes place before the Cataclysm(IE Deathwing rising) no it wouldn't make any sense at all.
That isn't technically true. The cataclysm (when the land got fractured) is before the arrival of the forsaken, it's how they invaded by sea and I think how they broke through the wall. The worgen invasion is before but not the forsaken invasion.
The Forsaken sea strikes start before the land is sundered.
Sorry dude but you are mistaken. Gilneas was protected by a massive natural reef wall to the south, and a man-made gigantic wall to the north. This is how they kept themselves isolated from the rest of the world for so long. The forsaken ships were only able to break through when the cataclysm broke the natural reefs in the south.
If you read the quest-text and quest-chatter you'll know that prior to your worgen being captured and fed the potion to stop acting like a beast, there had been earthquakes already in the town which had people concerned because their frequency was increasing. Those quakes were the cataclysm taking place.
I dunno if this is contradicted by the short story "Edge of Night" but as you yourself said to soldrethar MANY times before, that thing is plagued by a myriad of continuity errors galore. (which is ironic seeing as it was written by the lead quest designer himself)
Post by
Adamsm
Eh, been a long while since I've made a worgen; thought the sea strikes started, then the big one hit. That being said, still wouldn't have made any sense for the attacks to be from the Hammer forces rather then the Forsaken.
Post by
Rankkor
Eh, been a long while since I've made a worgen; thought the sea strikes started, then the big one hit.
The earthquakes intensified to the point they ravaged the entire town after the forsaken attacked, but the initial quakes that broke the reef allowing them to enter in the first place, was before.
That being said, still wouldn't have made any sense for the attacks to be from the Hammer forces rather then the Forsaken.
Maybe not the hammer, but really, there were many options that would had made equal sense. I'm saddened that they removed the trolls though. Supplemental lore material from pre-cataclysm said there was a troll settlement inside gilneas, which was retconned out of existence.
Post by
Adamsm
Honestly, the Forsaken did make the most sense; mind, being sent there at the commands of Garrosh didn't, but this was after Sylvanas deciding that all of Lordaeron belonged to her and her people, and be damned if there were living there before hand.
I just hope if/when the actual Alliance forces head up there to 'liberate' the taken landscape, you'll see Danath Trollbane at the head, and they bring back Ivar Bloodfang, since he never died.
Post by
Rankkor
Honestly, the Forsaken did make the most sense; mind, being sent there at the commands of Garrosh didn't, but this was after Sylvanas deciding that all of Lordaeron belonged to her and her people, and be damned if there were living there before hand.
This is a beef I have with her, since her expansionism includes territories that never were part of lordaeron in the first place. Gilneas never was a part of lordaeron, and neither was Stromgarde or Alterac, yet she expanded into those as well.
I just hope if/when the actual Alliance forces head up there to 'liberate' the taken landscape, you'll see Danath Trollbane at the head, and they bring back
Ivar Bloodfang
, since he never died.
/HISS
He's on my $%^ list too >_< I have a score to settle with that flea bag, he killed Kingslayer Orkus, and for that he has to pay. Only reason I haven't killed him is because he's nowhere to be found in the game, he just vanishes after killing poor dumb orkus.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##Ahem! Mind your localised French there sonny.
Post by
Stabhorn
That was the saddest quest line ever; I run Alterac valley just so I can kill Stormpike :(.
Post by
Rankkor
That was the saddest quest line ever; I run Alterac valley just so I can kill Stormpike :(.
for real. Vandaar was already a jackass prior to that, but he went straight up to my list of undesirables ever since I did that quest. From then on I always am a tank in AV just so I can smack his face personally
Post by
morginar
And also... You're blue now? What about your vengance and hatered (se what I did there)?
I'm blue, da bu dee da bu dae, da bu dee da bu dae.
I achieved my vengeance when I killed Vereesa, sadly I can't kill jaina because she's nowhere to be found. Blizzard's phasing powers protect her from my wrath in the isle of thunder. Though I haven't tried yet the only other place where she can be found: the fall of theramoore scenario.
But she's acompanied by kalec and rhonin there. I'm not sure I'm sufficiently geared to tackle 3 raid bosses by myself, but I aim to be. I'm already ilvl 551 on my DPS spec, and will soon reach the same level on my tank spec. When I do, I'll give it a few tries.
I wish you all the luck in your quest of vengance, and you could get two like-minded "people" to help you in the instance. One for each raid boss.
That was the saddest quest line ever; I run Alterac valley just so I can kill Stormpike :(.
for real. Vandaar was already a jackass prior to that, but he went straight up to my list of undesirables ever since I did that quest. From then on I always am a tank in AV just so I can smack his face personally
I don't do pvp tanking, but I smack my 2h sword/ frostbolt extra hard on that dwarf.Honestly, the Forsaken did make the most sense; mind, being sent there at the commands of Garrosh didn't, but this was after Sylvanas deciding that all of Lordaeron belonged to her and her people, and be damned if there were living there before hand.
This is a beef I have with her, since her expansionism includes territories that never were part of lordaeron in the first place. Gilneas never was a part of lordaeron, and neither was Stromgarde or Alterac, yet she expanded into those as well.
I'm inclined to ask why Sylvanas assulted Gilneas in the first place. I find it hard that she would strike at a potential ally, she could have tried to recruitthem like the blood elves.
As for who would assult Gilneas if not the forsaken? Why not the emerald nightmare due to the worgen or harvest witches?
Post by
Stabhorn
Did Garrosh order her to invade?
Post by
Rankkor
And also... You're blue now? What about your vengance and hatered (se what I did there)?
I'm blue, da bu dee da bu dae, da bu dee da bu dae.
I achieved my vengeance when I killed Vereesa, sadly I can't kill jaina because she's nowhere to be found. Blizzard's phasing powers protect her from my wrath in the isle of thunder. Though I haven't tried yet the only other place where she can be found: the fall of theramoore scenario.
But she's acompanied by kalec and rhonin there. I'm not sure I'm sufficiently geared to tackle 3 raid bosses by myself, but I aim to be. I'm already ilvl 551 on my DPS spec, and will soon reach the same level on my tank spec. When I do, I'll give it a few tries.
I wish you all the luck in your quest of vengance, and you could get two like-minded "people" to help you in the instance. One for each raid boss.
Problem is they hit like mac trucks, jaina alone shoots fireballs for 300k damage each, and Rhonin/Kalec auto-attack for 100k each.
To add to the problems, Jaina constantly spams blizzard doing 70k a tic, and summons 6 water elementals with 400k each every 30 seconds. If I get someone to lend a hand, it would be a healer to keep me up, and even then, that's gonna be one LONG LONG fight, as each boss has 400 million HP. We're talking about 1200 million combined.
And even though Kalec and Rhonin are neutral, if you pull jaina, you automatically pull them as well. And yes, I know all of this because I've already attempted it. Its ok, if I can't this expansion, I'll try again next expac. Blood DKs are absurdly resillient, and with the ridiculous stat inflation that follows each expansion, surviving those 300k fireballs will be a breeze next expac.
What I wonder is if lvl 95/100 players will be able to do lvl 90 scenarios. There are no instance portals for them, and queueing only works until a certain range.
That was the saddest quest line ever; I run Alterac valley just so I can kill Stormpike :(.
for real. Vandaar was already a jackass prior to that, but he went straight up to my list of undesirables ever since I did that quest. From then on I always am a tank in AV just so I can smack his face personally
I don't do pvp tanking, but I smack my 2h sword/ frostbolt extra hard on that dwarf.
Yep. He's an ass.
Honestly, the Forsaken did make the most sense; mind, being sent there at the commands of Garrosh didn't, but this was after Sylvanas deciding that all of Lordaeron belonged to her and her people, and be damned if there were living there before hand.
This is a beef I have with her, since her expansionism includes territories that never were part of lordaeron in the first place. Gilneas never was a part of lordaeron, and neither was Stromgarde or Alterac, yet she expanded into those as well.
I'm inclined to ask why Sylvanas assulted Gilneas in the first place.
The excuse given was rather flimsy, "they need a port". The latter excuse is more plausible, as gilneas represented a very strong breach in the forsaken border defense from which the alliance could (and eventually did) invade. But that logic falls flat when one considers that taking over the entire peninsula was unnecessary, the wall itself bottlenecks the forces to a thin pass, by stationing a big garrison there, even if the alliance brings 5 million troops, they wouldn't be able to go through.
The whole invasion, as well as the unnecessary cruelty they inflicted on the population, was just a bland attempt to demonize the forsaken, probably to make them main villains later on, which is why I'm so concerned by what Sylvanas says at the end of SoO. I've had enough of my faction being treated as the bad guys, give us time to be heroes for f***s sakes.
I find it hard that she would strike at a potential ally, she could have tried to recruitthem like the blood elves.
lol, sorry man but THAT would never happen. Gilneas separated from the alliance not only because they hated the horde, but because the rest of the alliance didn't hated them enough =P There's no way in hell greymane would swore fealty to an orc warchief. No way no how.
As for who would assult Gilneas if not the forsaken? Why not the emerald nightmare due to the worgen or harvest witches?
Those would had been potential sources of strife to drive the gilneans back to the alliance. After all, the entire worgen shtick is tied to druid shenanigans.
Post by
morginar
"they need a port"
Not like there is Southshore or Sunsail? Maybe the port where three forsaken ships departed to assult gilneas would work?
I find it hard that she would strike at a potential ally, she could have tried to recruit them like the blood elves.
lol, sorry man but THAT would never happen. Gilneas separated from the alliance not only because they hated the horde, but because the rest of the alliance didn't hated them enough =P There's no way in hell greymane would swore fealty to an orc warchief. No way no how.
The same could be said for the elves pf quel'thalas, and you see how that happened. But atleast a try of diplomancy before going to blows? Perhaps just a agreement on not going north of the wall and maybe send a few dreadguards to battle the worgen.
As for who would assult Gilneas if not the forsaken? Why not the emerald nightmare due to the worgen or harvest witches?
Those would had been potential sources of strife to drive the gilneans back to the alliance. After all, the entire worgen shtick is tied to druid shenanigans.
Indeed :P
Post by
Rankkor
I find it hard that she would strike at a potential ally, she could have tried to recruit them like the blood elves.
lol, sorry man but THAT would never happen. Gilneas separated from the alliance not only because they hated the horde, but because the rest of the alliance didn't hated them enough =P There's no way in hell greymane would swore fealty to an orc warchief. No way no how.
The same could be said for the elves pf quel'thalas, and you see how that happened. But atleast a try of diplomancy before going to blows? Perhaps just a agreement on not going north of the wall and maybe send a few dreadguards to battle the worgen.
Not the same. The Elves of Quel'thalas left the alliance because said alliance tried to purge them from azeroth. The Gilneans left the alliance because they were snobby bastards. But the alliance never wronged them, if anything, they simply saw the alliance as lowly maggots unworthy of their absolute glory. Contrast to the elves who saw the alliance as a band of backstabbing bastards who gave them the middle finger on multiple times. Even their starting zone has darnassian spies and soldiers as well as dwarven saboteurs.
Lor'themar was quite right in his assessment of the alliance, its THEM who keep and keep and keep pushing the elves to the horde. Whereas the same can't be said of the gilneans. Nobody made them leave, they left because they wanted to.
If anything I'm actually surprised the alliance took them back considering how much a bunch of asses they were in the first place, being the least to contribute in the second war, and the first to GTFO the moment things went sour, they demanded the most while giving the least, and have been more of a burden than a boon. I suppose they took them back mostly because they didn't wanted to re-do their mistake with the elves, and they figured extra numbers in a war can't hurt.
But that's just me guessing. I feel the worgen story wasn't developed or explored to its fullest potential IN THE GAME.
Post by
oneforthemoney
I find it hard that she would strike at a potential ally, she could have tried to recruit them like the blood elves.
lol, sorry man but THAT would never happen. Gilneas separated from the alliance not only because they hated the horde, but because the rest of the alliance didn't hated them enough =P There's no way in hell greymane would swore fealty to an orc warchief. No way no how.
The same could be said for the elves pf quel'thalas, and you see how that happened. But atleast a try of diplomancy before going to blows? Perhaps just a agreement on not going north of the wall and maybe send a few dreadguards to battle the worgen.
Not the same. The Elves of Quel'thalas left the alliance because said alliance tried to purge them from azeroth. The Gilneans left the alliance because they were snobby bastards. But the alliance never wronged them, if anything, they simply saw the alliance as lowly maggots unworthy of their absolute glory. Contrast to the elves who saw the alliance as a band of backstabbing bastards who gave them the middle finger on multiple times. Even their starting zone has darnassian spies and soldiers as well as dwarven saboteurs.
Lor'themar was quite right in his assessment of the alliance, its THEM who keep and keep and keep pushing the elves to the horde. Whereas the same can't be said of the gilneans. Nobody made them leave, they left because they wanted to.
If anything I'm actually surprised the alliance took them back considering how much a bunch of asses they were in the first place, being the least to contribute in the second war, and the first to GTFO the moment things went sour, they demanded the most while giving the least, and have been more of a burden than a boon. I suppose they took them back mostly because they didn't wanted to re-do their mistake with the elves, and they figured extra numbers in a war can't hurt.
But that's just me guessing. I feel the worgen story wasn't developed or explored to its fullest potential IN THE GAME.
Likely the Night elves also threw their own weight into the ring in favour of the decision, all things considered.
Post by
Adamsm
/HISS
He's on my $%^& list too >_< I have a score to settle with that flea bag, he killed Kingslayer Orkus, and for that he has to pay. Only reason I haven't killed him is because he's nowhere to be found in the game, he just vanishes after killing poor dumb orkus.
That's why I want him back; he was a Bad Ass Worgen Leader and it sucks that he just disappeared. But really...after the Forsaken and the Orcs destroyed your home town(Bloodfangs are the left overs from the original Arugal experiments), you can't blame him for wanting to cause as much @#$% as possible among the Horde forces.
Post by
Snake387
I'm inclined to ask why Sylvanas assulted Gilneas in the first place. I find it hard that she would strike at a potential ally, she could have tried to recruitthem like the blood elves.
Sylvanas did so because Garrosh ordered her to and she saw in Edge of Night what would happen if she didn't take the reins of Garrosh. Also, if she didn't comply, there would've been consequences. Why did Garrosh want Gilneas? It had one of the largest ports in EK (I'm not sure if Stormwind's is larger).
The Elves of Quel'thalas left the alliance because said alliance tried to purge them from azeroth. The Gilneans left the alliance because they were snobby bastards. But the alliance never wronged them, if anything, they simply saw the alliance as lowly maggots unworthy of their absolute glory.
Actually, Greymane left the Alliance because a whole load of his people died in the wars, who he loved unlike some other leaders, with the Orcs and the Alliance kept on asking for more and more while giving nothing back and were raising taxes to pay for the wars they had which would affect his people and make them poorer and more tired as they had to work harder.
If anything I'm actually surprised the alliance took them back considering how much a bunch of asses they were in the first place, being the least to contribute in the second war, and the first to GTFO the moment things went sour, they demanded the most while giving the least, and have been more of a burden than a boon. I suppose they took them back mostly because they didn't wanted to re-do their mistake with the elves, and they figured extra numbers in a war can't hurt.
The Gilneans felt it was the other way round, the Alliance kept asking for more while giving nothing back (which was a correct assumption). And the reason they took them back is explained in Wolfheart, and Varian actually held your point of view but reconsidered after they helped the Night Elves with Garrosh's attack against Ashenvale.
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