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Post by
Behelich
Pretty much. Still, nothing (well, other than the Guardians of Hyjal) is stopping a wannabe necromancer to reanimate Archimonde's skeleton for whatever purpose. That said, it would be no more than a skeleton raised from your average draenei.
Post by
Stabhorn
What of his Soul?
Post by
Behelich
What of his Soul?
It's been more than a decade since the battle at Hyjal summit. It would take a necromancer of godly levels to trace Archimonde's soul from his bones and enslave it. Technically, it is not impossible until said otherwise by Blizzard, but I do not see anyone with enough power to pull it off. Barring, perhaps, Sargeras, but he has better things to do if he ever gets back to Azeroth. He has a plenty of powerful lieutenants as is to be bothered with Archie.
Post by
Stabhorn
Does he have very many others that we know of besides Kil'Jaeden? He's lost Mannoroth, Hakkar, Archimonde, Tichondrious, Varimtharis and Balnazar. I know that the Dreadlords can return but how long does it take? Sargeras might have to wait five hundred years for the Dreadlords to return.
And what actually does happen to the Souls of the demons we kill? What if, pure speculation here, all of the demons we kill can come back to life...only the dreadlords have been confirmed but this could explain why there are so many demons.
On another note...was Gul'dan undead when he died? If not, do you think he will return?
Post by
Monday
What if, pure speculation here, all of the demons we kill can come back to life...only the dreadlords have been confirmed but this could explain why there are so many demons.
I highly doubt this. Most demons are just fel pumped species. Being unkillable is kinda odd, especially as fel magic is shown to destroy your bodies. Only the Nazethrim are really unkillable (outside of their home plane), but they're also the ones who supposedly corrupted Sargeras.
Or maybe that was retconned. I don't recall.
On another note...was Gul'dan undead when he died? If not, do you think he will return?
No and no, considering Illidan had his bloody skull.
Post by
Behelich
Does he have very many others that we know of besides Kil'Jaeden? He's lost Mannoroth, Hakkar, Archimonde, Tichondrious, Varimtharis and Balnazar. I know that the Dreadlords can return but how long does it take? Sargeras might have to wait five hundred years for the Dreadlords to return.
And what actually does happen to the Souls of the demons we kill? What if, pure speculation here, all of the demons we kill can come back to life...only the dreadlords have been confirmed but this could explain why there are so many demons.
On another note...was Gul'dan undead when he died? If not, do you think he will return?
Five hundred years is nothing for the Dark Titan. Plus, you have to remember that entire races of cunning, malevolent, powerful beings serve him. Picking the replacement for Archie should be an easy enough task. Not to mention he still has Mephistroth and Mal'Ganis, two very, very powerful Dreadlords, at his disposal.
Demons, barring dreadlords and maybe incorporeal ones like voidwalkers, are just mortals who are pumped up with Fel to the extent of mutating violently. That said, we don't actually know what happens to them when they're destroyed and not simply banished - but we also know little of mortal afterlife. All we have is speculation for the moment.
Gul'dan the Archtraitor was torn apart by swarms of enraged demons guarding the Tomb of the Dark Titan. I highly doubt there's anything left of him to bring back, but then again, who knows? His spirit might just be trapped in the Tomb still, but this is unlikely, considering, how Benzene pointed it out, Illidan had the orc's very skull as a trinket.
Post by
Stabhorn
You both make good points.
Did Arthas completely destroy Nerzhul or is Bolvar alone?
Also, after Xavius died the first time, he was resurrected as a satyr...maybe Sargeras can do that to his demons as well.
Also, Malfurion has killed Xavius in the Emerald Dream, correct?
Post by
Behelich
Did Arthas completely destroy Nerzhul or is Bolvar alone?
I have this theory... Note that this is pure speculation that stems from me being a huge fan of Arthas.
The Rise of the Lich King book has told us that Arthas has willfully destroyed both Ner'zhul's spirit and the remnants of his own humanity. However, at the end of the Icecrown Citadel raid instance, we are given to understand that nonetheless, whatever little good that remained in Arthas held back the Scourge from unleashing its full might upon Azeroth. If his humanity were still there, why cannot Ner'zhul be?
Thus, what I propose is this: Ner'Zhul and Arthas have been vying for control ever since the latter has donned the Helm of Domination. However, Arthas turned out to be too strong for the former orc to subjugate, and even began to undermine the Scourge war effort - otherwise, how else can one explain the sudden shift from a brilliant tactician and strategist Arthas has proven himself to be in
Reign of Chaos
and
the Frozen Throne
games to the seemingly incompetent halfwit who can only appear in illusions and deliver cliched speeches? Notice how Ner'Zhul was not exactly a good general, in contrast; the long-winded, ignominious Spider War comes to mind, which was only won by throwing corpses at the problem until it went away.
The Angrathar debacle comes crashing down, and in its aftermath the Scourge gains an extremely valuable hostage: the valiant regent lord of Stormwind, a figure held in awe in the Alliance and begrudging respect in the Horde. It is hinted that Bolvar has resisted any and all attempts of the Lich King to break his mind, but the truth can be far more complicated than this. What if Ner'Zhul has successfully turned the High Lord, orchestrating Arthas's downfall at the hands of Tirion Fordring and his clique of adventurers? Consider this: the fallen prince of Lordaeron lies dead at the Ashrbinger's feet. The old paladin is still reeling from the shock of what he perceives as his finest hour - and then, miraculously, his old friend Bolvar Fordragon calls out to him. Remember that Tirion is not exactly a man of cunning and deceit.
Arthas is dead and Ner'Zhul has gotten himself a new host - one that will be much easier to control. Now it is but a matter of time before the shadow of death unfurls its wings from the Frozen Throne once again.
Edit: Stabhorn, please do not double-post. There is an edit button for adding something you have forgotten to write.
Post by
Monday
Notice how Ner'Zhul was not exactly a good general, in contrast; the long-winded, ignominious Spider War comes to mind, which was only won by throwing corpses at the problem until it went away.
For the record, the Nerubians were immune to the plague. The Scourge had to use rather limited resources to deal with them.
Post by
Stabhorn
Arthas is dead and Ner'Zhul has gotten himself a new host - one that will be much easier to control. Now it is but a matter of time before the shadow of death unfurls its wings from the Frozen Throne once again.
This was what I was thinking. If Ner'Zhul was dead; there really wouldn't ever be a threat from the Scourge again. Except maybe Kel'Thuzad.
Post by
Adamsm
Notice how Ner'Zhul was not exactly a good general, in contrast; the long-winded, ignominious Spider War comes to mind, which was only won by throwing corpses at the problem until it went away.
For the record, the Nerubians were immune to the plague. The Scourge had to use rather limited resources to deal with them.
Immune to the Plague of Undeath yes(probably due to being giant arachnids) but not to nercomancy; and when you are up against a group who gets stronger every time one of your people falls well, that is more of a war of attrition.
Post by
Behelich
Exactly; every fallen nerubian was raised into undeath, and even then it took aid of Ner'Zhul's own jailors, the dreadlords, to finally zerg rush the arachnid empire.
Contrast that to Arthas, who in his finest hour had to fight with what basically amounted to three autonomous allied armies with only a small group of elite warriors. He was put in the situation diametrically opposite to the one any undead commander usually finds themselves in - the numbers were stacked against him. Nevertheless, Arthas triumphed - and in a brutal duel defeated a being with millenia of combat experience, filled to the brim with demonic power.
Post by
Monday
Notice how Ner'Zhul was not exactly a good general, in contrast; the long-winded, ignominious Spider War comes to mind, which was only won by throwing corpses at the problem until it went away.
For the record, the Nerubians were immune to the plague. The Scourge had to use rather limited resources to deal with them.
Immune to the Plague of Undeath yes(probably due to being giant arachnids) but not to nercomancy; and when you are up against a group who gets stronger every time one of your people falls well, that is more of a war of attrition.
Sure, but to win a war of attrition, you generally have to have resources for it. The Scourge did NOT have very many people, as Northrend had a very small human population. Now, I'm not saying that Ner'zhul was a tactical genius or anything, but he DID win against a superior army with limited resources.
Besides, the original Lich King's role was more to spread the plague than to command the armies. There's a reason why Mal'Ganis was sent to manually spread the plague/remove obstacles, and later why Arthas took control of the Scourges military operations (aka actually turning them into an army instead of a horde of zombies that happen to kill people).
Post by
Stabhorn
Also lets not forget that the nerubians truly began to lose the war when they accidentally tapped into a portion of Yogg-Saron's will; releasing many faceless ones which attacked them. (Although I don't know why the faceless ones destroyed the nerubians since they serve the Old Gods, if not Yogg-Saron personally.)
Post by
Adamsm
The Nerubians didn't serve the Old Ones though; after the shattering of the Aqir Empire, and they went north, they just wanted to be left alone, and not join up. They actively worked against the Old God forces after all.
Post by
morginar
Also lets not forget that the nerubians truly began to lose the war when they accidentally tapped into a portion of Yogg-Saron's will; releasing many faceless ones which attacked them. (Although I don't know why the faceless ones destroyed the nerubians since they serve the Old Gods, if not Yogg-Saron personally.)
Becouse bugs eaither serve or hate the old gods. The mantid are the only ones to have a long tradition based on worshiping the old ones. The Silithid only began worship when things was as the darkest, and their temple doesn't look ancient and fancy compared to the surface ruins. Nerub disliked the old gods maybe?
Post by
Adamsm
The Silithid were corrupted and twisted into the Quarji by C'thun.
Post by
Stabhorn
But they were all the Aqir once...didn't the Aqir serve the Elder Ones?
Post by
Adamsm
They were forged by the Old Gods, but as seen, not everyone wants to serve them, so if a race has a free will, they have a choice to turn on them or not.
Post by
morginar
They were forged by the Old Gods, but as seen, not everyone wants to serve them, so if a race has a free will, they have a choice to turn on them or not.
Din't the bugs evolve on their own like trolls?
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