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General Lore Discussions
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Post by
oneforthemoney
You can kind of see what Blizzard's trying to do here, making their world a darker place and putting more war and layers onto it. But WoW isn't Mass Effect where things gradually and naturally got darker. Their character development boils down to 'something bad happened. Anger!' They can't really handle that kind of thing, and it ends up pretty clunky when they try. Not to mention they still have Thrall, who is too good for this war and so shucked off to be shaman saviour of whatever now. Then had him put Garrosh in charge, thereby making nothing bad that happens his fault.
Except putting Garrosh in charge. This will never be mentioned though when Thrall returns to put everything right and leave someone else in charge while he does whatever.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
oneforthemoney
You can kind of see what Blizzard's trying to do here, making their world a darker place and putting more war and layers onto it. But WoW isn't Mass Effect where things gradually and naturally got darker. Their character development boils down to 'something bad happened. Anger!' They can't really handle that kind of thing, and it ends up pretty clunky when they try. Not to mention they still have Thrall, who is too good for this war and so shucked off to be shaman saviour of whatever now. Then had him put Garrosh in charge, thereby making nothing bad that happens his fault.
Except putting Garrosh in charge. This will never be mentioned though when Thrall returns to put everything right and leave someone else in charge while he does whatever.
What if: Thrall dies.
That's crazy talk Light. Then who will Knaak and Golden project onto? Vol'jin?
Post by
Adamsm
Hey now, Knaak rarely if ever touches Thrall, he's Golden's baby.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Well, Rhonin is dead now so he'll have to find
someone
else.
Post by
Morec0
Well, Rhonin is dead now so he'll have to find
someone
else.
*braces for incoming "he got better"*
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
I certainly think Junebug should get more screentime.
...
Wait, wrong universe. I think Saurfang would be my pet. I wish they would bring Thura in, even as bad as Knaak wrote her.
Post by
Behelich
Hey now, Knaak rarely if ever touches Thrall, he's Golden's baby.
Thrall was Metzen's pet waaaaaay back before Golden began writing for Blizzard. We can blame her for awful 'romantic' scenes, we can blame her for somewhat shoddily written book, but Thrall? He's Metzen's fault.
Post by
Rankkor
Someone is holding a grudge.
you bet I am. Just how would you react if someone led a dwarf purge? If someone just attacked ironforge and killed innocent men and women OVER NOTHING, and then placed several more men and women and CHILDREN in jail FOR NO REASON at all? while authorizing a completely zealot nutjob to butcher as many dwarfs as they can find?
Jaina didn't just crossed the Moral Event Horizon here. She cartwheeled around it while giggling like a maniac.You can kind of see what Blizzard's trying to do here, making their world a darker place and putting more war and layers onto it. But WoW isn't Mass Effect where things gradually and naturally got darker. Their character development boils down to 'something bad happened. Anger!' They can't really handle that kind of thing, and it ends up pretty clunky when they try. Not to mention they still have Thrall, who is too good for this war and so shucked off to be shaman saviour of whatever now. Then had him put Garrosh in charge, thereby making nothing bad that happens his fault.
Except putting Garrosh in charge. This will never be mentioned though when Thrall returns to put everything right and leave someone else in charge while he does whatever.
What if: Thrall dies.
This is something I discussed with Skree just yesterday actually.
As much as I hope it doesn't happens, I'm detecting subtle hints that this is what blizzard is going for. Giving Thrall "The Obi Wan Treatment". Where Thrall tries to bring garrosh back from the brink of madness, but garrosh is too far gone to be talked any reason to, and in a fit of rage kills thrall and THIS is what finally snaps the final straw for the horde and leads to them rebelling against him.
Dark as the situation is for the horde right now? nobody is daring to move against garrosh. He killed cairne and people held back. He backstabbed vol'jin while putting the trolls under arrest and people held back. He used blood elves in the EXACT same way as Garithos did back in war3 to get his divine bell, and people held back. They're obviously fed up with him, but they're either too scared to move against him, or they fear what will happen once he's removed and they're too weak to fight the alliance. Something has to be the catalist to finally make them say "enough is enough"
And an often used catalyst for this type of thing is an important, revered, and esteemed figure getting assassinated. So Garrosh killing off Thrall, and this being the spark that ignites the horde revolution WOULD make sense.
Plus the writers all but exhausted any possible use they could get out of him, they married him to a horrible abomination, and their child has already been born. And they hinted that he's probably not gonna return to warchief position. So what other role would they give him?
Post by
Morec0
... Just read this:
In the end, it was he who suggested that Jaina Proudmoore be elected as the Kirin Tor's new leader as a replacement for the recently deceased Rhonin;
based on scrolls of prophecy that had been written by Krasus himself that indicated that Jaina was destined for the position
.
GOD DAMN PROPHECIES! WHY CAN"T THEY LEAVE FICTION ALONE ALREADY!
Post by
oneforthemoney
... Just read this:
In the end, it was he who suggested that Jaina Proudmoore be elected as the Kirin Tor's new leader as a replacement for the recently deceased Rhonin;
based on scrolls of prophecy that had been written by Krasus himself that indicated that Jaina was destined for the position
.
GOD DAMN PROPHECIES! WHY CAN"T THEY LEAVE FICTION ALONE ALREADY!
Prophecies, like all things in fiction, can be good if used correctly. Blizzard has not, simple as that.
And as to how exactly Krasus, a red dragon, saw into the future I'm not even going to bother and ask.
Post by
Atik
And as to how exactly Krasus, a red dragon, saw into the future I'm not even going to bother and ask.
It's entirely possible he didn't. He might have been derping around, or lying, or it might not have even been written by him.
Perhaps that is the ultimate plot-twist; Jaina was never meant for that position. And now Destiny is pissed, possesses Garrosh and makes him kill Jaina, and then Thrall goes bloodthirsty rage mode and has the players kill Gary...
Post by
Behelich
Krasus was a member of the Six himself, so it could have very well been a ruse. It's not like there are a lot of
"Queens" of a kingdom"
who qualify to be on the Six and are referred to as
"Lady"
.
Post by
Rankkor
... Just read this:
In the end, it was he who suggested that Jaina Proudmoore be elected as the Kirin Tor's new leader as a replacement for the recently deceased Rhonin;
based on scrolls of prophecy that had been written by Krasus himself that indicated that Jaina was destined for the position
.
GOD DAMN PROPHECIES! WHY CAN"T THEY LEAVE FICTION ALONE ALREADY!
Prophecies, like all things in fiction, can be good if used correctly. Blizzard has not, simple as that.
Not only they are more often than not, used incorrectly as cheap plot devices, but prophesies are so overused they've really become annoying. I'm not sure just how or why did blizzard felt they had to add them to warcraft.
Bad enough that they added them to starcraft (and apparently diablo).
Edit: Though in Starcraft it was handled MUCH better. (or at least somewhat better)
Post by
oneforthemoney
... Just read this:
In the end, it was he who suggested that Jaina Proudmoore be elected as the Kirin Tor's new leader as a replacement for the recently deceased Rhonin;
based on scrolls of prophecy that had been written by Krasus himself that indicated that Jaina was destined for the position
.
GOD DAMN PROPHECIES! WHY CAN"T THEY LEAVE FICTION ALONE ALREADY!
Prophecies, like all things in fiction, can be good if used correctly. Blizzard has not, simple as that.
Not only they are more often than not, used incorrectly as cheap plot devices, but prophesies are so overused they've really become annoying. I'm not sure just how or why did blizzard felt they had to add them to warcraft.
Bad enough that they added them to starcraft (and apparently diablo).
Blizzard felt they need to because they had to make Jaina head of the Kirin Tor, even though it made little sense to do so. Therefore, the obvious solution without having to put effort into the writing was to throw 'prophecy' at it. Pretty much the same thing they did to make Garrosh the warchief, except replace 'prophecy' with 'Thrall didn't want the job anymore'.
But it's more reasonable for Diablo considering much of the material they base the world on. Whether it was handled well or not...Honestly, I haven't been paying much attention there to judge.
It all boils down to how intricate the prophecy is to the whole story and world. In this case, it made no sense either with the producer of it or the recipient, and turned into -- as you said -- a cheap plot device.
Post by
Rankkor
Exactly. A MUCH better example of a prophesy was the one made by Velen regarding Mu'ru and the blood knights.
In this particular case, the producer is an actual PROPHET, and what he predicted didn't just came out of nowhere, it was something that happened gradually over a long span of time. It was a much better handled case back then.
I have to agree with Skree with something he told me ingame a few days back: its amazing how blizzard can be so good at storytelling, and at the same time, so bad at storytelling.
Post by
1070246
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Guys...off topic question: why does everyone hate Garrosh so much? Personally I've always liked him; he put the WAR back in Warchief. He's not underhanded in any way - he settled all his fights himself, and in the stonetalon mountains chain quest he proved that he has a sense of honor and compassion too. Granted, he's a bit set in his ways when it comes to Sylvanas and the new plague, but after what hapenned to Azeroth with the first Plague, can you blame him?
I can honestly say he's one of my favorite characters in WoW at the moment.
Mainly because he's rather stupid as well. Having honour and all that is swell, but at the same time Blizzard mangled his character. He's practically bipolar, swinging between honourable warrior with you example and extremist with his Dark Shamans and using Fel bombs in Ashenvale and the mana bomb on Theramore. Not to mention he abandoned his carriers in the Highlands to go fight some Alliance, leaving them to be attacked by black dragons.
He's a lot like Jaina, in that Blizzard writes him badly. Unlike her, he's had more chances to gather ire and is being a moron, while at the same time somehow winning only because Blizz says he does.
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