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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Dark, Nobundo, Fandral and Bendicitus would all be the same ranking... their all the leaders of their respective belief's. The Church of Light doesn't consider itself to be higher then Nature or the Spirits. And yeah, Varian is equal to the other leaders politically.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Major members
The major partners in the Alliance are:
* The HumanHuman Humans.
o Kingdom of Stormwind: Led by King Varian Wrynn. Formerly led by Anduin Wrynn (with Bolvar Fordragon as regent) in Varian's absence (prior to the war for Northrend).
+ Capital is Stormwind City in northwestern Elwynn Forest, in the subcontinent of Azeroth.
+ One of the founding members of the Alliance of Lordaeron following Stormwind City's destruction in the First War, restored to prominence after the Second. One of the few human nations not affected in some fashion by the Third War.
+ The Kingdom of Stormwind's influence extends into the surrounding lands, including Lakeshire in the Redridge Mountains and Darkshire in Duskwood. A sizable naval fleet enables Stormwind to expand across the seas, with outposts in the Borean Tundra, the Howling Fjord, the Grizzly Hills and the Dragonblight in southern Northrend.
o Theramore: Led by Lady Jaina Proudmoore.
+ Capital is Theramore Isle, located in Dustwallow Marsh.
+ Founded by refugees fleeing the deprevations of the Scourge. Forces include men from Lordaeron, Stromgarde, Kul Tiras, and Gilneas. Established early peace treaty with the Horde.
+ Northwatch Hold in the Barrens is their primary fortification outside of Theramore itself. There are also several fortified watch towers spread throughout Dustwallow Marsh itself.
* The DwarfDwarf Dwarves of Khaz Modan.
o Led by King Magni Bronzebeard.
+ Capital is Ironforge, located in northern Dun Morogh.
+ Pledged to the Alliance following the Bleeding Hollow's invasion of Khaz Modan.
+ The Kingdom of Ironforge controls several settlements in Khaz Modan, including Kharanos and Thelsamar. More distant outposts such as Dun Garok and Bael Modan are the result of exploration and service to the Grand Alliance. The Explorers' League also has outposts in Northrend, including at least one base camp in the Storm Peaks and a small outpost in the Howling Fjord.
* The GnomeGnome Gnomes.
o Led by High Tinker Gelbin Mekkatorque, King of Gnomes.
+ Long-time capital was Gnomeregan, located in western Dun Morogh. Temporary settlement is Tinker Town in Ironforge.
+ Cousins of the dwarves, joining with their long-time allies to provide technological wonders to aid the Alliance in its fight against its enemies.
+ Gnomish outposts can be found in Blade's Edge Mountains in Outland and the Borean Tundra in Northrend.
* The Night elfNight elf Night Elves of Darnassus.
o Led by High Priestess Tyrande Whisperwind and Archdruid Fandral Staghelm. General Shandris Feathermoon commands the Sentinel Army.
+ Capital is Darnassus, located on the new (failed) World Tree of Teldrassil off the coast of northern Kalimdor.
+ Allied with the survivors of Lordaeron and the Horde at the behest of Medivh, which resulted in the defeat of Archimonde at the Battle of Mount Hyjal. Remained with the Alliance following the battle.
+ Controls several larger outposts, including Astranaar and Forest Song (jointly with the draenei) in Ashenvale, Feathermoon Stronghold in Feralas, the port of Auberdine in Darkshore, and Sylvanaar in Blade's Edge Mountains.
* The DraeneiDraenei Draenei of the Exodar.
o Led by the Prophet Velen.
+ Long-time capital was Shattrath City on Draenor, now known as Outland. Current capital is the Exodar, located in the western portion of Azuremyst Isle, off the coast of northern Kalimdor.
+ Refugees of the eredar race fleeing their corrupted brethren, seeking allies to fight against the Burning Legion. Lived on Draenor until the orcish onslaught, fled from the Legion and the forces of Illidan Stormrage by stealing the Exodar, one of the satellites of Tempest Keep.
+ Draenei outposts include Azure Watch on Azuremyst Isle, Blood Watch on Bloodmyst Isle, Forest Song (jointly with the night elves) in Ashenvale, the Harborage in the Swamp of Sorrows, the Temple of Telhamat in Hellfire Peninsula, and Telredor in Zangarmarsh.
* The WorgenWorgen Worgen of Gilneas will join the Alliance in the upcoming World of Warcraft: Cataclysm.
o Led by King Genn Greymane.
+ Capital is Greymane City in central Gilneas.
+ Formerly one of the strongest of the human nations, Gilneas was one of the founding members of the Alliance of Lordaeron, sealing itself off from the world after the Second War to avoid being brought into "other people's conflicts". People and lands transformed by the worgen plague that resulted in civil war engulfing Gilneas.
+ Only other known settlement is Duskhaven.
No where in that does it say Varian is the overall leader of the Alliance. Yes, he is one of the most active... but that's because of Blizzard. Lorewise, again, the races listen to their own leaders before they listen to another. Politically, all 6 Leaders are equal. Military, Varian Tyrande and Magni would have the same rank, as those three are the 'Commanders' of their respective races.
Yes, the Alliance has no over-all leader, but there is a leader who stands above the rest.And his name was Anduin Lothar.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
And his name was Anduin Lothar.
Yes, and after his death, it was Terenas, and presantly, its Varian.
I understand what you mean by its because of Blizzard, but that changes nothing.
I don't think so, even Terenas wasn't Lothar's equal, the next would be Turaylon. Varian is a good king... but he's not up to their levels yet.
And just because his coin says something about being the leader... doesn't make it true. After all, everyone else has coin
wishes
. And Blizzard might have said something in passing, but in game and Lorewise, Varian is only king of Stormwind, a part of the Alliance, and one of the two human leaders.
Post by
Skreeran
Hmmm...
I'd agree that Varian is the Military Leader of the Alliance, and thus has power over all the Alliance's military if their individual leaders do not object.
However, I would not say that he is above the other leaders politically.
For example, in the Horde, if Sylvanas disobeys a direct order from the Warchief, she would be put on probation at least, and executed at most.
If Jaina were to disobey a direct order from Varian, she would not be a traitor, because the province of Theramore is independent from all the other kingdoms. Varian could make war on her anyway, in theory, but that would be unwise, as it would be driving them right into the arms of the Horde.
Also, it's worth noting that when Lothar was named Supreme Commander, he was chosen because he was
not
a king.
Post by
chase123
For example, in the Horde, if Sylvanas disobeys a direct order from the Warchief, she would be put on probation at least, and
executed at most.
I dont think Thrall would go that far. Maybe Garrosh.
If Jaina were to disobey a direct order from
Jaina
Varian
, she would not be a traitor, because the province of Theramore is independent from all the other kingdoms. Varian could make war on her anyway, in theory, but that would be unwise, as it would be driving them right into the arms of the Horde.
Had me confused there. I thought Jaina had gone crazy and was talking to herself.
Post by
Skreeran
You know what I mean on the Jaina part... :P
But Thrall has executed people before. Cycle of Hatred, for one. I could see him executing Sylvanas if she went too far. But you're right, not for merely disobeying him once. But whether he chooses to or not, the Warchief has that right.
Post by
HiVolt
Skree, check yo emails.
Post by
Skreeran
Okay... :P
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
He was chosen because all the other human kings put up a good reason why they should have that role, and Lothar was given it because he had links to all of the human nations.
In presant, Varian has a larger claim then Tandred, Galen, and Genn/Liam.I'd honestly say Dannath has a better claim then Varian; more war experience, is older wiser, is better known, would be seen by the Northern Kingdoms as a better choice.
Dark we get Varian is your favorite... but there are a load of people who would be better supreme commanders of the Alliance then him. He is only a human king, of the Southern Nation, that's all.
Post by
HiVolt
However, I would not say that he is above the other leaders politically.
Why does everyone keep saying that?
If Jaina were to disobey a direct order from Varian, she would not be a traitor, because the province of Theramore is independent from all the other kingdoms.
Yes, she would be considered a traitor for interfering with the Alliance's goals, and at the least, be kicked out.
And no, Theramore can't just say they are part of the team, but do nothing for it. She can't just take a group of people and say, "we are our own nation of equal power to yours, and we don't have to do anything you say."
And she calls Varian her king in Icecrown, proving my speculation.
Varian could make war on her anyway, in theory, but that would be unwise, as it would be driving them right into the arms of the Horde.
I am sure the Theramore army just can't
wait
to fight thier own familys under the banner of the Horde.
Also, it's worth noting that when Lothar was named Supreme Commander, he was chosen because he was
not
a king.
He was chosen because all the other human kings put up a good reason why they should have that role, and Lothar was given it because he had links to all of the human nations.
In presant, Varian has a larger claim then Tandred, Galen, and Genn/Liam.
I think you're making the Alliance out to be a little too much like the Horde in the political aspect. What you're describing might have been true during Warcraft 2, but once the Grand Alliance split, all those rules went out the window.
You should think of the Alliance as more like a democratic conglomeration of states, with no federal ties between the factions.
The Horde by contrast is an oligarchy. All of the factions included must pledge loyalty to the Horde and the Warchief. The Alliance has no such pledge.
but there are a load of people who would be better supreme commanders of the Alliance then him Well, there are a load of better candidates for Warchief than Garrosh, but well... yeah... heh.
Post by
Patty
I agree with Hivolt.
The Horde is an autocracy, I suppose it could be called.
The Alliance, however, is just that. An Alliance. For example, Britain and America are Allies. If Obama says to Brown that some law needs changing, Brown does not have to change it. Just putting it into context.
Basically.:
Horde = Warchief says jump, everyone says how high?
Alliance = Varian says jump, no one has to follow his order.
Post by
Patty
I agree with Hivolt.
The Horde is an autocracy, I suppose it could be called.
The Alliance, however, is just that. An Alliance. For example, Britain and America are Allies. If Obama says to Brown that some law needs changing, Brown does not have to change it. Just putting it into context.
Basically.:
Horde = Warchief says jump, everyone says how high?
Alliance = Varian says jump, they kick the bastard in the chin with steel toed boots.
o_O
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
That's military power. Not political.
Post by
Adamsm
That's military power. Not political.
Exactly, no one here has been denying that Varian has military clout, but politically, all the leaders, even the Gnome king, are the same.
Post by
HiVolt
Yes, militarily, he is the the overall leader at the moment, but I thought you were working on the social and political hierarchies...
Sure, military command does have some implication in politics, but in the Alliance's case, it's much different from the Horde. For instance, the Stormpike General would only have a political say in the case of Ironforge, where the High Overlord of the Kor'kron would have enough political clout in the Horde to override the say of a faction leader.
The Horde is the military state here, not the Alliance. If the Alliance was a military state, the Horde wouldn't exist, because they would have been wiped out in the First War.
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