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General Lore Discussions
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Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
No, it was just a small group of them, and Aethas was quite distressed by what happened...since you know, suddenly it's him against 5 other humans from the 6.
And as said in the book, which we do now have a Dalaran for MoP: They are remaining neutral, but will keep an eye on both factions to make sure the Mana Bomb scenario doesn't happen again.
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229054
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781960
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229054
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781960
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229054
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Post by
Adamsm
A) A show of hypocrisy when you think about the ban on the Blight (since the Mana Bomb also leaves lingering effects) Even more so considering how Garrosh went on and on about not using things like that...including the whole Stonetalon situation.
Post by
Rankkor
Wether we have another example of gameplay and story segregation (read: failed storytelling) or not, it only applies to pre-Cataclysm WoWWell, except for semi-peace pact that Jaina and Thrall had that was shattered by her Father, and then of course the fact that the primary attempts to call for peace between the Horde and Alliance were done at Theramore, but kept getting interrupted by outside forces; both the things that lead to the Missing Diplomat and the Twilight Hammer screwing over the second peace talk.
I think what he meant to say was, that lorewise (pre-cataclysm) Theramoore may have been neutral, but gameplay-wise it wasn't. As horde if I got within 10 foot of that place, they'd shoot me, whether I attack or not. That's bad storytelling, if they wanted Theramoore to be neutral, it should had been neutral in the game as well.
Post-cataclysm, I'm gonna have to go with delt here. I don't exactly see how could they still claim the banner of neutrality, when so many of their forces are across kalimdor battling the horde. Not only they allowed the rest of the alliance to marshal their forces through their grounds, they also sent their OWN troops to attack the rest of the horde. I simply can't see that as being neutral, regardless of where Jaina stands. Its still her people, wearing her tabards, fighting the horde.
Since we don't have a version of Dalaran in either the Cata or MoP timelines, then the Sunreavers and Horde members could be kicked out of the city with no gameplay consequence. Not that I doubt what you said though, good to know the Kirin Tor is on league with Jaina's peacemongering.
Sorry for another spoilerific question, but is it made clear wether the Sunreavers as a whole are in league with Warchief or was it just one single idiot? Because then, the Sunreavers sort of would be kicked out of the city anyway... breaking the organization's pact of neutrality and all.
nah, as adamsm said, it was just a small group. Besides, who do you think voted for jaina to become the new leader? Aethas voted for her as well.
A) A show of hypocrisy when you think about the ban on the Blight (since the Mana Bomb also leaves lingering effects) Even more so considering how Garrosh went on and on about not using things like that...including the whole Stonetalon situation.
two things.
On stonetalon he wasn't upset about the nuke being used, but rather that the nuke was used on a neutral town, with children. Notice how in hillsbrad, they use not 1 but 5 nukes to stop the stormpikes from invading and he was fine with that.
secondly, this makes garrosh TRIPLE hypocrite, for the following reasons:
1: As others said, he has a pretty severe beef against the blight, a brutal, but effective war weapon that kills friend and foe, combatant and civilian, children and adult without discrimination. Yet he didn't and that gripe against a mana bomb which is just like the blight,except waaaay worse.
2: On stonetalon he was appalled that under his command a neutral druid grove full of children was bombed, yet here, he bombs another "neutral" (and I swear I still don't know how they can call it neutral following the events of cataclysm) town with children as well and he seems just fine with it.
3: On Ashenvale, we use fel fire bombs to repel the alliance, and he threatens us with beheading if we do so again. Here, he uses yet another magical bomb without any guilt on his conscience
Blizzard has done a
HORRIBLE
job at fleshing out his character. For the love of God, I can't get this guy. One moment he acts all honorable and reasonable, then the next he trows temper tantrums like a spoiled brat. One moment he consults with his advisors, and acts like a good leader, then the next moment he ignores EVERYONE'S advices, and just does whatever the hell he wants. One moment he actually considers killing children a good tactical move to prevent future enemies, the next one he seems appalled that children died under his orders. One moment he seems to consider the needs of his people above everything else, the next moment HE SACRIFICES HIS OWN TROOPS TO KILL HIS ENEMIES.
Either he has the worst case of Multiple-personality disorder I've ever EVER seen (Dr Jerkil and Mr Hide is a kitty-cat next to this guy) or blizzard simply can't make up their minds about him.
I just wish they'd settle once and for all WHAT kind of garrosh they want, and go with that. This is the main reason I hope we don't redeem him, I want him dead, I want him gone, I want him retconed out of existence, all records of him stricken from the books, I want him becoming an "unperson" I want him deader than dead, his very essense and memory gone forever and scattered to the nether NEVER to return.
Post by
229054
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588688
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229054
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229054
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Post by
Adamsm
Double post, but I have a question. I'm raising my new druid through Darkshore and.... are the Night Elves retarded?
The Shatterspear have wyverns, orcs, tauren, undead forsaken and crates and banners with the symbol of the Horde on them and they have no idea why the Shatterspear suddenly invaded Darkshore?
Primarily because the Horde forces pulled pretty quickly, leaving the smaller Shatterspear holding the bag as a large portion of the Night Elf military came barreling down on them.
Also, as another amusing note, back during early Beta there was 'infamous' Horde and Alliance fleet squaring off off the coast of Darkshore...after reading Tides of War, it's now revealed that was the blockade portion after the destruction of Theramore; who knew, since back then nothing was mentioned about it. Oh well.
Post by
oneforthemoney
Double post, but I have a question. I'm raising my new druid through Darkshore and.... are the Night Elves retarded?
The Shatterspear have wyverns, orcs, tauren, undead forsaken and crates and banners with the symbol of the Horde on them and they have no idea why the Shatterspear suddenly invaded Darkshore?
Maybe they're having trouble comprehending how anyone could be that stupid.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
Eh, Elf and Trolls; when either side sees the other pointy eared race, they get really really focused.
Post by
229054
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Post by
Adamsm
No, Wolfheart happens shortly before the Cata questing ramps up: So the Horde assistance to Darkshore and the Ashenvale Conflicts are both after Varian and the Worgen help the Night Elves and the rest push the Horde back some...but the Horde still had their forces ready to assault the other locations.
Post by
Adamsm
Huh, what do you know, they actually gave real answers for once...
Some ones that stand out to me though:
Q: Wrathion constantly claims that he is the last black dragon, but what of Sabellian and the other black dragons in Outland (and even the Netherwing)? Did Wrathion somehow have them killed, or is he ignorant of their existence?
A: Wrathion states, “To my knowledge, I am the only black dragon who remains.” Thankfully, Wrathion is not omniscient, and he is simply ignorant of the dragons beyond the Dark Portal. Both the black dragons under his elder half-brother Sabellian and the Netherwing flight remain in Outland. There is also the possibility that some black dragons on Azeroth have managed to evade Wrathion’s detection as well.Lol, well at least they mention them...
Q: Alexstrasza states that the Aspects' "great purpose" has been fulfilled. However, the titans empowered the Aspects to watch over Azeroth and not to just stop Deathwing's second Cataclysm. Since Aman'Thul gifted Nozdormu with his powers over time, it's possible he predicted Deathwing's ultimate corruption, but that doesn't explain why the Aspects would be like, "alright, job's done, vacation time" when there's still other threats to consider (N'zoth and the Burning Legion, for example). Is this a retcon or are we missing something?
A: Aman’Thul, the wise leader of the titan Pantheon, had seen in a vision that the Old Gods would one day cause a catastrophe with the potential to wipe out all life on Azeroth. He and a few members of the Pantheon empowered the five Dragon Aspects with the ultimate goal of averting this single catastrophe, this Hour of Twilight, though they strove to defend Azeroth whenever a suitably apocalyptic threat emerged. Despite Aman’Thul’s vast powers, however, he was not omniscient: neither he, nor any of the other titans or Aspects knew that Neltharion the Earth-Warder would become a pawn of the Old Gods and the herald of the apocalypse. However, following the War of the Ancients and Neltharion’s betrayal, Nozdormu received another vision of the future that made it clear that their own brother would be the Hour of Twilight’s harbinger. The titans bestowed upon all five Aspects enough power to avert the apocalypse, and by turning one of the Aspects to their side, the Old Gods believed this would make their ultimate plan foolproof.And...not sure what to say, since in the same context Noz told 'us' everything evil on Azeroth is still their fault though.....
Q: Is there truly an Old God underneath the Tirisfal Glade?
A: Nope! There’s something incredibly unsettling there, but it’s not an Old God. It isn’t recommended to go digging through the Glades, though.
Doesn't kill the pentacle theory, just moves it up to Zul'Aman more.
Q: Why do some Alliance soldiers raised by the Forsaken immediately become loyal to the Forsaken while others do not? Are they being mind controlled? If so, by whom: Sylvanas or the Val’kyr? How does this relate to the fact that the Forsaken cultural identity is based on their free will and rebellion against the Lich King?
A: Free will is one of the cornerstones of Forsaken culture, with the great capacity for both good and evil that it entails. However, some undead, especially those who die in combat or under extreme stress and are raised soon after, enter into a violent, frenzied state. Undead in this state are easily manipulated and their rage is often directed at the foes of those who raised them. After the effects wear off, if the risen corpse has not been destroyed, they are given the same ultimatum that other Forsaken are offered: join the Dark Lady or return to the grave.
Though, I see that as a cop out...
Q: Can we get some information on Garithos? Where he was from and on whose orders was he acting? Was there any significant event in his past that caused his hatred of non-human races?
A: Grand Marshal Othmar Garithos was the only son of a baron who ruled over lands in what would later be the Eastern Plaguelands that bordered Quel’Thalas. While his father ruled from the town of Blackwood on the shores of the similarly-named lake, Garithos joined the army as a knight during the Second War, where he saw combat in Quel’Thalas defending the elves’ homeland from invading orcs. While he was in Quel’Thalas, however, a small band of orcs broke off from the main invading force and burned his home town to the ground, killing all of its inhabitants in spite of the valorous defense marshaled by its lord. Othmar’s family perished doing their duty, defending the homes and lives of their subjects. He blamed the elves for the loss of his town and family, believing that the elves diverted forces away from the Alliance’s true goal: the defense of humanity alone. After his father’s death, Garithos was awarded his title and continued his service in the armies of Lordaeron. By the time of the Scourging of Lordaeron, he had attained the rank of Grand Marshal and was the highest ranked surviving military officer in the region, promoted not necessarily due to his own abilities, but his father’s reputation and title. Cut off from the chain of command, Garithos amassed a small army of volunteers and conscripted civilians, and gave them the mission that he assumed the Alliance should have always had: the preservation of humanity above all else. Despite the ad-hoc nature of his forces, other states recognized him as potentially the last remnant of Lordaeron’s government and certainly the strongest warlord in the area. As such, officials from neighboring non-human states such as Ironforge and Quel’Thalas sent him aid, ignorant of his intolerant policies.I really have no words for that.
Q: How does Cenarius view the Horde? Considering that Cenarius’ first instinct upon seeing orcs in his forest was to attack them, and Cenarius was killed by the father of the current warchief, it seems odd that Cenarius and his allies are so cordial to the Horde and orcs in particular in Hyjal.
A: Despite no longer having warlocks in their ranks, the orcs of Thrall’s Horde still carried within them the unmistakable mark of the Burning Legion upon their very souls up until the moment that Grom Hellscream defeated Mannoroth. Cenarius, as a being so attuned to nature that he can sense the slightest corruption, assumed that the orcs in Ashenvale were scouts of the Legion. This, ironically, sent the Warsong clan back into the service of Mannoroth and lead to the reestablishment of their connection to the potent fel magics that first bound them to the Legion. Cenarius’s spirit returned to the Emerald Dream after his defeat, and within it, he was able to sense the events of the Battle of Mount Hyjal. Cenarius saw the orcs defend Nordrassil hand-in-hand with the night elves and humans, and developed a growing respect for them. Cenarius saw that, despite their fel taint, they were allies against the Legion and defenders of the land (noting Garrosh’s father’s victory over his former enslaver in particular), so when both he and the Horde returned to Hyjal to defend the World Tree once again, Cenarius saw the orcs and their allies in a new light.Well there's that answered.
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