This site makes extensive use of JavaScript.
Please enable JavaScript in your browser.
Live
PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
Beta
General Lore Discussions
Post Reply
Return to board index
Post by
Adamsm
Ya I don't see Jaina going neutral until Garrosh is dethroned, and it's kinda stupid to build her up as anti-horde then make her neutral before the expansion even startsWhy not? They've done it before after all.
I think my theory is grounded in some truth since we already know a blood elf has stolen the focusing iris for the horde to use against theramore, it wouldn't be a massive stretch to say the sunreaver blood elves were involved.Actually...it would, since like the Silver Covenant, the Sunreavers jumped through hoops to get back into Dalaran; throwing it all in one move is truly idiotic and would be really stupid writing.
Don't really know what else to add there other than the sunreavers are the horde representatives of dalaran, and they don't get along with their alliance counterparts, the silver covenant.Then I'd suggest going and reading their bio and learn more about them, rather then flinging baseless accusations about them. They also don't get along with their Alliance counterparts because of Vereesa and her rage against Blood Elves.
And I don't know why you think there would be opposition from certain kirin tor members to joining the alliance because they didn't help them when dalaran was destroyed. You left out the part where the scourge was raping lordaeron, so you really think they would be able to help? You really think there's a sizeable number of people in dalaran who don't understand that the rest of the alliance had their own massive issue to deal with? Stormwind did nothing during the Third War but sit on their butts, twiddling their thumbs while the city was rebuilt. Ironforge sent some help, but not really that much, but we know how the Dwarves of then felt about Magi. Gnomes are the only ones who have a 'good' excuse, since they were dealing with the Gnomeragon issues.
This isn't the time for neutrality, not with Garrosh in charge of the horde, trying to conquer the world so he can rule with an iron fist. His own words "you will serve the horde, or be crushed beneath it!". So unless neutral factions like the Kirin Tor want to bend down and kiss garrosh's boots, then they're screwed if he wins this warArgent Crusade, Ebon Blade, Cenarion Circle, Defenders of Hyjal, Earthen Ring all say hi and laugh at that: Most of the Neutral factions are neutral because they don't get involved in the 'pointless' faction wars....since you know, that would mean they'd be fighting their brothers.
Maybe that's why the sunreavers betray the rest of the kirin tor to the horde, because they think Garrosh will win and they don't want to become his enemyAnd I doubt it's them who take the Iris, since you know...the sheer about of @#$% they've gone through to get the Kirin Tor to trust them again. After all, they are under the command of Saurfang, not Garrosh; if he tells them to stay put, there isn't much the Warchief can do, since Garrosh is leery of Saurfang.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Edit 2: You know what, forget it. It's really not worth the headache of trying to explain something to you Sold. You believe what you want to believe, I'll wait for the book, and we'll see what really happens.
Post by
Rankkor
I meant that it could be that the sunreavers were the ones to steal the focusing iris and give it to the horde to use against theramore, thereby breaking their neutrality. Maybe they have something to do with Rhonins demise, like let's say there's a big conflict between the members of the kirin tor because the sunreavers broke the neutrality, and it leads to rhonins demise at the hands of the sunreavers, which get's them kicked out, Jaina becomes the new leader of the Kirin Tor, and they rejoin the alliance.
This is all just speculation btw.
ya know, its not like I have something against speculation (I often do it myself) but you must have SOME base for it. So far, the only thing we know is that Jaina becomes the new leader of the kirin tor. How exactly do you co-relate that to the kirin tor becoming alliance and the sunreavers being kicked out I have NO IDEA. There is not a single hint of either of those 2 happening, nor anything even remotely happening.
Again, don't take this the wrong way (I honestly don't mean anything insulting at all by this) but you really LOOVE to read WAY TOO MUCH into even the most remotely mundane stuff. I mean really, from a buff called "Greymane's Resolve" somehow being proof that Genn would have a new model, to now Jaina being the new leader of the kirin Tor somehow meaning that the tor is alliance and the sunreavers have been kicked out? As adamsm said:
while speculation can be 'fun', bias speculation is just silly.
Amen.
If anything, Jaina becoming a formal member of the Kirin Tor again would mean she's given up on the Alliance itself;
considering what's happened to the city in the last 11 years, you can't blame her in the least.
This makes more sense, because like it or not, the alliance hasn't exactly been "nice" to theramoore in the least. From commandeering their forces ILLEGALLY to attack Razor Hill, to ignoring their pleas of help with just about every problem they've faced, to again commandeering their forces to assault the barrens and a really long ect list that would take several pages.
The alliance has treated Theramoore with the same degree of unilateral respect as the horde has treated Silvermoon. (if not actually worse)
Post by
Rankkor
And I don't know why you think there would be opposition from certain kirin tor members to joining the alliance because they didn't help them when dalaran was destroyed. You left out the part where the scourge was raping lordaeron, so you really think they would be able to help? You really think there's a sizeable number of people in dalaran who don't understand that the rest of the alliance had their own massive issue to deal with? Stormwind did nothing during the Third War but sit on their butts, twiddling their thumbs while the city was rebuilt. Ironforge sent some help, but not really that much, but we know how the Dwarves of then felt about Magi. Gnomes are the only ones who have a 'good' excuse, since they were dealing with the Gnomeragon issues.
You really think stormwind would send aid when there city is in ruins? Yes adamsm, they're going to send troops when they don't even have a city from which to send troops. And the fact that no one in the kirin tor has brought up the fact that the alliance didn't help them shows that they don't give a damn.
This isn't the time for neutrality, not with Garrosh in charge of the horde, trying to conquer the world so he can rule with an iron fist. His own words "you will serve the horde, or be crushed beneath it!". So unless neutral factions like the Kirin Tor want to bend down and kiss garrosh's boots, then they're screwed if he wins this warArgent Crusade, Ebon Blade, Cenarion Circle, Defenders of Hyjal, Earthen Ring all say hi and laugh at that: Most of the Neutral factions are neutral because they don't get involved in the 'pointless' faction wars....since you know, that would mean they'd be fighting their brothers.
I don't see how that counters what I said in any way shape or form.
Maybe that's why the sunreavers betray the rest of the kirin tor to the horde, because they think Garrosh will win and they don't want to become his enemyAnd I doubt it's them who take the Iris, since you know...the sheer about of @#$% they've gone through to get the Kirin Tor to trust them again. After all, they are under the command of Saurfang, not Garrosh; if he tells them to stay put, there isn't much the Warchief can do, since Garrosh is leery of Saurfang.
Saurfang's retired.
wow.............
ok sold, lets break it down a bit k?
I don't see how that counters what I said in any way shape or form.
It does simply because Garrosh ISN'T YET EVIL!
Understand that he becomes evil DURING MoP not
BEFORE
. Militaristic and Aggressive? yes, downright evil and monstrous? NO!
The Kirin Tor have nothing to gain by joining the alliance, they are a federation of mages, who's first and foremost concern is the research into Arcane science, they are not political tools, and unless the crap really hits the fan, they wont bow down to any faction. You want to deal with them? you do so with respect and equality.
This means, zero membership of the alliance or horde. They are allies, not members.
Saurfang's retired.
>_>
Really? sweet merciful lord, you'll believe anything these days I swear..........
Lemme break it down as slowly as I can: Saurfang.................is............left................in..............charge.............of................the....................horde forces..................
IN NORTHREND!
Where exactly did you got the silly notion that he retired? He's gonna retire when he's dead, and not a moment sooner. He's no longer leading the frontline battlefields because the scourge presence wasn't 100% nullified on the north (Thanks to our crappy writters @ blizz) nor was the vry'kul threat, or even the old gods forces there. So there needs to be a bulk of horde forces left behind to secure the horde interests in the north, and who do you think is in charge of EVERY SINGLE HORDE MEMBER IN THE NORTH?
That's right, Saurfang. And even garrosh is pissed scared of Saurfang.
Post by
Adamsm
Anyways:
The Final Boss of MoP
; a lot of that makes sense, since the Alliance and Horde war screws up so much on Pandaria, from shattering the Jade Forest to the conflict in the Wilds being made worse because the Sunwalkers and the Night Elves are fighting and the Mogu's taking advantage of it. Just hope they don't go over board with the 'War is Evil' message.
Post by
Rankkor
Anyways:
The Final Boss of MoP
; a lot of that makes sense, since the Alliance and Horde war screws up so much on Pandaria, from shattering the Jade Forest to the conflict in the Wilds being made worse because the Sunwalkers and the Night Elves are fighting and the Mogu's taking advantage of it. Just hope they don't go over board with the 'War is Evil' message.
whoa whoa whoa............
from shattering the Jade Forest to the conflict in the Wilds being made worse because the Sunwalkers and the Night Elves are fighting and the Mogu's taking advantage of it. Just hope they don't go over board with the 'War is Evil' message
no, it needs more filtering.
the Sunwalkers and the Night Elves are fighting and the Mogu's taking advantage of it.
almost there.......
the Sunwalkers and the Night Elves are fighting
o_O
the Sunwalkers are fighting
/fangasm.
THEY ARE ACTUALLY IMPLEMENTING THEM INTO THE GAME? Because other than the Aponi quest, we've had nary a peep about the sunwalkers AT ALL on cataclysm, which was an utter dissapointment, considering how the blood knights had at least a small role on TBC.
First order of tauren paladins and they don't even get a cameo or even honorable mention whatsoever.
tsk tsk tsk.
As for the article of know-your-lore I'll give it a more thorough read tomorrow, I'm having a horrible head-ache right now.
Post by
Rankkor
I just had this crazy thought last night, and realized it may actually not be that crazy. Knowing how blizzard likes to recycle villains (Ragnaros, Nefarian, Onyxia, Everyone in naxx, the blood princes, ect) Dungeons (Scholomance, scarlet monastery, ZA/ZG, deadmines, ect) or even groups (Scarlet Crusade for example, by all intents and purposes they SHOULD be dead, why as of MoP they are still alive I have no idea) then this may actually make some sense.
Why do I get the lingering feeling that Theramoore is gonna become Dalaran 2.0?
Think about it, just like the original dalaran, it got attacked and thrashed, there was a teleportation magic involved, and the location of it is now a big crater with purple arcane fumes still littering the place.
Next thing we know, Jaina is now leader of the kirin tor (they better explain why isn't Rhonin in charge.............. and there better be a fiery gruesome death involved).
So yeah, I get that lingering teeny suspicion that after MoP, Theramoore is gonna return as yet another flying city, becoming Dalaran 2.0
Considering how they're really pushing the "War is Evil" message on MoP, what better more fitting place to celebrate the end of a war than there?
Obviously this is all speculation, but I still suspect this is gonna happen at some point in the future.
Post by
Morec0
... Why? Why Flying?
Post by
Rankkor
... Why? Why Flying?
I'll admit I wouldn't like yet another flying city, but this is blizzard we're talking about, recycling is their motto. Remember we still have a lich king 2.0 waiting to thaw.
And I know I'll probably get some flak out of this but whatever...... Its time to lay some olive branches here, and put feuds to rest.
Soldrethar:
Consider this my official apology for all the crap I've said about you, and for the times I have (justified or not) acted like a jerk towards you.
here are my two gifts.
A: Dave Kosak posted this tweet yesterday, and I think you're gonna like it:
Jaina's response to Theramore will be explored in Christie Golden's upcoming novel, and later in the Mists patch cycle.
Neutral? Pah!
I'll still advice you to wait for the novel before speculating too much ;)
The second one you're gonna like even more:
B: Here is yet another tweet regarding Kosak:
So quick lore question. The Skyfire is the airship in JF according to the new soundfiles. So is the JF intro pre Wandering Isle?
his response was
Not the same ship. Older versions of the Wandering Isle refer to that ship as the Skyfire,
we did some re-writing
:)
So there you go, now, I do advice you to take this victory gracefully and don't gloat (too much at least xD) we're all adults here, and I fully admit I was mistaken, and again, apologize for my behavior.
Its pretty obvious we both have different views of the alliance and the horde, (as well as the leaders within them) but I don't see that as a reason to do any hostility at all, so as of today, consider my previous attitude towards you GONE for good.
There are other Alliance fans on this board, that have different views of the alliance and horde as well, and yet I get along great with them (Specially adamsm and funden, whom I consider great pals in-game and out of it as well), so I don't see any reason why we shouldn't get along either. If we clash opinions again in the future (and we will, your opinions differ VASTLY from mine) lets just agree to disagree and move on.
/peace.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Meh, I would've cared more earlier, but I've quit wow for Guild Wars 2 so meh.
o_O I guess I'll see you there (yes, I too plan to join GW2, though I'm not gonna quit wow for it, I'll just play considerably less, about 6 months per year or so)
Still, I felt that I've been needlessly hostile to you before, and wanted to say that I'm sorry =( I really am dude.
I hope you enjoy your stay in GW2 (out of sheer curiosity what class are you playing? cuz mine is gonna be Necromancer)
......anyway, it's good to see she's not going to go neutral, it would be pretty bad to promise alliance fans an anti-horde figure then to make that person neutral shortly after the big incident that was supposed to make them anti-horde. But that means dalaran is going alliance since she's not going neutral.
Who knows............
time will tell, though I don't quite see how they could remove the focal point of an expansion out of the clear blue. There IS a northrend revamp in the works, Lich King 2.0 is just waiting to be thawed.
Plus remember, even if jaina is still alliance, that doesn't mean the rest of the city will follow. Remember that the current council of six has 1 member that is specifically horde (Leader of the sunreavers) and one that is specifically alliance (Ansirem Runeweaver)
Neither of these 2 people are neutral, Ansirem is unambiguously alliance, and Aethas is unambiguously Horde. So we could end up with a council of six composed of 3 alliance and 3 horde members, to maintain balance of power. Lore-wise it doesn't make any sense whatsoever for a federation of mages and scholars to suddenly pick a side on a political squabble that has nothing to do with them.
just sayin'
Edit 3:
Also.................. you took this long to make a worgen female? WTF? dude, the very first thing I did when cata was released, was play the worgen starting zone twice, once with a worgen male(warrior) and another with a worgen female (mage). And I'm not even alliance-inclined.
Post by
Adamsm
But that means dalaran is going alliance since she's not going neutral.That's still jumping to assumptions, when we've already had a neutral Dalaran for years; in BC the Violet Eye was the arm of Dalaran that was active outside of the city and it worked with both factions, they set up a completely new section for Horde and Alliance in Wrath: The Tor will remain Neutral, since in all honesty, you don't get much more Alliance centric then Rhonin after all, what with him marrying one of the semi-leaders of the High Elf nation; he's just one of those, like Thrall and Malfurion, who know that there are times when everyone has to fight together to take down the big bad.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I don't really see her leading a neutral nation while being hostile to the the horde.Because, contrary to what Wrath showed us, the 6 run Dalaran; why they felt the need to make Rhonin the spokesman was probably because of his 'known' quality from being the books. But even in the days of Antonidas,
The 6
always had the final say, with a voting system set up to decide what should be done; saw that clearly in Day of the Dragon and Beyond the Dark Portal.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Right; nothing to stop her from convincing Vereesa that the Covenant should make a move on the Horde(not like that would be hard) but the rest of the members would more then likely veto out any attempt to make Dalaran a member of the Alliance or to use their forces on an ally.
Post by
Rankkor
My computer only has 4 gigs of ram, so I can't play both, so guild wars it is.
humm....... I don't follow, I didn't meant play both at the same time (as in running both clients simultaneously) I meant something like play 3 days of wow, followed by 4 days of GW and so on. For example, I got 4 games installed on my PC right now, Skyrim, Wow, The Old Republic, and Vampire: The Masquerade. I don't play all 4 of them at the same time, but I alternate between them to prevent becoming bored (Except wow, I haven't played wow for 4 months now, I'll return once MoP is out, but currently I've accomplished my pre-expansion goals and thus have no more reason to keep playing)
I'm actually gonna play one of each class
Same here, I always make one of each class on all games (wow included) but as you know, its nearly impossible to do progression on all of them without sinking your entire life into the game, so generally speaking, people tend to have one main. In my case, its either Charr Warrior, or Human Necromancer.
but my main will be a Norn Guardian, (my dream of playable vrykul has been answered :D )
I dunno, they don't really look much like vry'kuls to me, at least culturally, I've been checking their lore on several sites, and animal-deidity worship seems more in line with Trolls than Vry'kul.
(The Norn gods are all animals of different sorts)
It's awesome how you get to create your characters personaly, background, etc. at the creation screen, and get your own unique personal story to play out that I believe spans the entire game world, and it's different per race, class, and personality/background options you choose.
yes and no.
Class has zero input on your story, if you make a norn, its gonna be the same story regardless of if you play a guardian, or a thief, or any other class. What does variates the stories is the 3 questions asked at the start but the class only adds a few flavor lines.
I can also finally play a human without having a retarded hip bend every 5 seconds, that and making the human look like a normal human being and not an overbuff freak if I don't want him to be. You can have an old man look like a weak old man, or a youngster look like a youngster, instead of every human male looking like hercules. That and non ugly, realistic faces. Seriously, this games customization blows wow's to oblivion.
Blame the lead artist of blizzard for that (Sam Didier). The dude seems incapable of drawing any man that is anything but Über-buff. And this is not just on warcraft, check starcraft and its the same land-mass of muscles everywhere, ditto with diablo. I'll admit I don't like it, people have different complexions, and having everyone be a buff amalgamation is nothing short of weird.
And no need to apologize, you've been pretty damn civil with me.
Not all the time, I've been checking some of my older posts, and I've noticed that there's been more than one time where I've been needlessly hostile, for no apparent reason. Hence the apology.
That's why I'm thinking the thing that could push them to side with the alliance is if, for some convoluted reason, the sunreavers betray them, a civil war sparks in the city of dalaran and that leads to Rhonin's death.
Except there is nothing to indicate that, so its kinda silly to be jumping to such conclutions based on no evidence. What has been said and revealed, is exclusively to jaina, what happened to the rest is only something that time will tell.
I don't really see her leading a neutral nation while being hostile to the the horde.
Why not? its not like she'd be the first.
Malfurion and Hamuul Co-lead the cenarion circle, an organization that while neutral, still has members that belong to the alliance and the horde.
Its even more glaring on the Earthen Ring, lead by Nobundo, Thrall, and Muln. 2 Horde members, and 1 alliance member. All of the people on the earthen ring, are also loyal members of either the alliance or the horde, and yet they know when to work together with each other, and with the rest of the world.
I think the line that should stick here is: "The group itself is neutral, even if its individuals are not" Like I said, already the Council of Six has one alliance and one horde member, neither are neutral, and yet they belong to the ruling council. Just because jaina becomes the next member of the council of six, I just don't see her unilaterally pulling every mage in dalaran into the alliance fold. If it happens, it would be bad bad writing.
And BTW, this would mean Jaina is now both a member of the Council of Tirisfal, and now Council of Six. I wonder how many other councils are they gonna drop on her head?
(seriously Knaak is gonna be so upset that his 2 precious babies were killed off)
And this makes me so damn happy.
Look at my happy face
=D
Post by
Behelich
Second is Krasus, right?
And while getting rid of such stupidly overhyped characters is certainly joyous, I can only dream of having Med'an killed gruesomely..
Post by
Adamsm
Krasus went out like a bad ass though; completely eradicating the entire Chromatic flight except for Chromatus.
Post Reply
You are not logged in. Please
log in
to post a reply or
register
if you don't already have an account.