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Post by
Rankkor
No, you leave out how the alliance has lots of reasons to think that the orcs would do something like creating giant mutant steroid orcs to use against them, based on the horde's history.
and yet without concrete EVIDENCE they have no reason to be pointing fingers at anyone. You don't see the horde pointing fingers without evidence do ya?
As for the mutant orcs, if you'd knew anything about orcs, you'd know that they HATE with a passion mutants.
They created mutated orcs in the past but that's in the past, not the present. If there's a dire orc on gilneas, he's the exception not the norm.
you instead leave it out and try to make the alliance out to be ignorant racist pricks.
Because save few exceptions, that's exactly what they are. Notice a pattern on how the evil factions such as the twilight hammer, and scourge rarely (if ever) choose to deceive the horde by making them believe the alliance attacked them? its always the alliance chosen to be deceived into thinking the horde attacked them, because they are the ones already pre-disposed into that line of thinking by their own bigotry.
Don't dare question the racism within the alliance (Specially humans) since if they are racists
to their own allies
And even long standing
Friends
(this NPC is involved in a scripted event in which its bluntly stated that your average human footmen see the draenei with suspicion EVEN AFTER YEARS of them being on their frikking side) they can be DOUBLE racist against races they see as a threat.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
What does that matter? And the fact that there was a dire orc in the horde just recently proves they're willing to use such fiends. And, you know, abominations.
orcs =/= forsaken. Just because forsakens use abominations doesn't mean the orcs do. And again, 1 Dire orc doesn't mean they use them as shock troopers. They dislike mutants, and since this dire orc was green-skinned, he probably wasn't even altered by any third hand.
Oh yes I'm sure the alliance know all about orc culture.
they seem to think they do.
........................
No.....just....no.
what? u're gonna deny it now? ok boy, how many times has the twilight hammer scourge or legion tried to trick the orcs into thinking the alliance attacked them? 5?1? how about 0? ye, 0.
How many times have they tried the same trick on the alliance? sorry, but I lost count at 5. (and they've fell for it EVERY SINGLE TIME)
Oh yes, this one guy in the alliance isn't comfortable with draenei or worgen, that must mean everyone in the alliance feels the same way..............sure, yep, totally.
if it was just 1 guy, you'd be right, except he's one of THOUSANDS. If I had to list every single case of a human displaying bigotry towards another race, we'd be here all day. The names that spring to my head in a heartbeat are that guy on blasted lands, the embassador next to hawthorne, barthilas, garithos, all of the scarlet crusade (which were all alliance before their own bigotry turned them completely insane) Tirion's wife.
Heck, its easier to count how many humans DON'T have a prejudice against other races.
And for the guy in valgarde, if you've ever quested as alliance, you'd know he was being manipulated by a darkfallen elf masquerading as a human. The darkfallen was sent by the lich king to manipulate the alliance into not letting the draenei, holy powered beings, help fight the scourge.
I quested as alliance (how do you think I even knew of that scripted event?) and for your information, while counselor Talbot WAS a darkfallen, his manipulation has nothing to do with the fact that the average footmen DO see the draenei with suspicion. Your average uneducated human sees a more "exotic" race and their first instict is to react with panic and mistrust.
Talbot was manipulating Arlos, but not brainwashing the entire alliance army (if the entire bulk of the alliance army was that easy to brainwash, you guys are in deeper problems than you think)
Post by
Adamsm
Sorry Sold, but it's true; the Twilight Hammer enjoyed attacking both factions with opposite faction races to disrupt things and cause chaos: Varian and the Theramore Summit, blamed the Horde for the attack because the Twilight Hammer sent orcs, forsaken and trolls to attack him...and they sent humans and elves to attack Thrall and Garrosh.
And there is still some mistrust of the new races among the Alliance; they'll fight together, but they aren't really a huge happy family either, and still have groups broken up by race: Saw that in Wolfheart, as the Alliance dignitaries were not all housed in the same area, since the racial tensions were there.
Post by
Rankkor
And there is still some mistrust of the new races among the Alliance; they'll fight together, but they aren't really a huge happy family either, and still have groups broken up by race: Saw that in Wolfheart, as the Alliance dignitaries were not all housed in the same area, since the racial tensions were there.
To be fair, the same can be said about the horde. Its no secret that Forsakens are just barely tolerated within the horde, and most orcs and trolls see blood elves as weaklings unworthy of being on the horde in the first place.
It goes to show that bigotry can rear its ugly head regardless of faction.
Unless its a neutral faction, since the cenarion circle, earthen ring, and argent crusade ARE huge happy families.
As far as I can tell, the only races within the alliance that are all tight/bro-fist/fireforged-friends, are the Humans with the Dwarves and Gnomes. The other races are more or less strangers to the group (this is reflected ingame too, since most (if not all) alliance bases in all continents are mostly human. You can count with 1 hand how many draenei worgen or night-elven bases the alliance has on outland or northrend)
The same deal goes on the horde, with the 3 tight/bro-fist/undying-loyalty races being Orcs with Tauren and Trolls. While there are significant forsaken bases, and even some blood elf bases, they are still treated as outsiders.
Goblins are a curious case because even though the bilgewater cartel has only recently joined the horde, the orcs have hired goblins for years. So they kinda "clicked" right into the horde with no problem.
Post by
306612
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Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
That's not interpreting things; you see it across Azeroth when the non-human looking races join in with the human forces: Distrust and caution around them, since they aren't sure...and you know, the fact that the last time anyone saw anything like the Draenei, it was Archimonde leading an army of Eredar to destroy the Alliance forces in Warcraft 3.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
That's not interpreting things; you see it across Azeroth when the non-human looking races join in with the human forces: Distrust and caution around them, since they aren't sure...and you know, the fact that the last time anyone saw anything like the Draenei, it was Archimonde leading an army of Eredar to destroy the Alliance forces in Warcraft 3.
Yes, of course, just that one guy isn't a basis for it. I'm not disagreeing that the alliance races are less trusting of "exotic" races (with good reason, of course) just saying one guy being mistrusting doesn't mean that's the general attitude of alliance folk. Yes tho, wolfheart showed that they didn't get along well, but at the end they all stood united together, which is also the entire point of making varian the high king that everyone in the alliance wants to brofist.
I'm still hoping that plot line is tossed into the garbage: We don't need a Warlord of the Alliance. And while they may have stood united at the end of Wolfheart....as seen in Cata, they went back to distrusting each other again.
Post by
Rankkor
You really do like to jump to crazy conclusions with little to support it don't you? You really think the twilights hammer, scourge and legion are picking the alliance specifically for said reason?
yes. I mean, you tell me why haven't they tried the same trick with the horde? Ohh yea, because the one time they tried it, the horde didn't took the bait.
And you constantly, CONSTANTLY leave out that the twilights hammer was making it look like the horde did it.
You're acting like the alliance are morons for not being able to see through the deception
.
Its because *GASP* They are.
Need I remind you that both alliance and horde forces were attacked on the theramoore summit by the hammer? Cookie prize for guessing what faction fell for the deception and what faction didnt.
All it takes is one very superfluous circumstantial tidbit to bait the alliance into thinking that the horde did it. They're (for the most part) dupes and that's a fact that most evil factions have exploited to keep the war going.
Hawthorne wasn't insane, and we're not talking about ex alliance, we're talking about alliance, not racist bigot humans who are no longer in the alliance. I'm pretty sure the argument was about how the alliance feels about the exotic alliance races, not completely unrelated human bigots who are no longer alliance.
Learn to read, I didn't said Hawthorne, I said the AMBASSADOR next to Hawthorne.
And the scarlets still count because they were racist while they were still part of the alliance. Of course, the actions they took after they left don't count, but the actions they took while inside of it DO count.
Ok, I want you to list exactly thousands of humans, I want their names, and lore sources for them.
Normally if it was any other user, I'd take the bother to do it, but since we're talking about
YOU
because you're just gonna shrug it off, invent some of your more popular dismissals (such as "bad apples" "retcon" or "We don't know who ordered it") and it will be a wasted time.
A short list would be Barthilas, Blackmoore, Varian (yes HIM, he seems to completely fail to see orcs as anything other than animals) Garithos, that ambassador next to hawthorne (I really can't remember his name) that dude next to the dark portal, Karandra Fordring, Lorin Remka, Langston, Maiev, (yes she's not human ,but still fits the profile, alliance+bigot) Delora Lionheart, Genn Greymane (he's actually worst, not only is he a racist towards other races, he's also racist among his own humans, since he believes gilneans to be superior to other humans) Thoras Trollbane, Daelin Proudmoore, briefly Turalyon (though he seemed to grow out of it by the time of "beyond the dark portal". Good for him)
And those are just the ones that came at the top of my head, but if you expect me to list ALL of the humans who've displayed bigotry on this setting, sorry I wont do it, you aint worth the effort.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
I liked it, except for Med'an :S I just hope he keeps his little sue ass on the expanded universe AND AWAY FROM THE GAME. I don't think I could stomach it if he ever gets a central focus on an expansion or zone.
Interesting that velen had a vision of lich king bolvar going crazy and turning his scourge against azeroth, wiping everyone out
Why are you surprised of this? Its pretty obvious blizzard chose to use that asspull of "there must always be a lich king" as a cheap excuse to have another villain go "it was all a setback".
Its as transparent as Tom Cruise's orientation (He aint foolin' anyone).
Post by
Adamsm
Its pretty obvious blizzard chose to use that asspull of "there must always be a lich king" as a cheap excuse to have another villain go "it was all a setback".I've been saying that since the stupid thing was revealed lol.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I really doubt that; it will just be the Scourge 2.0, no deeper meaning then that.
Edit: Also since you know....Ner'zhul was absorbed into the Lich King long before the shade of 'Uther' appeared(honestly, I doubt it was him either; there was a tin foil hat that said the vision we saw was the good piece of Arthas trying to get out and just took a different form so that Sylvanas and Jaina wouldn't just dismiss it out of hand).
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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