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Post by
Septimus
STOP ARGUlNG IN MAH THREAD
Post by
Rankkor
I'm not really in the mood to read lots of lore posts right now, but at the same time, its like the last 6 or 7 posts had no indication of what you guys are acting so hostile about.
So how about, you help me, help you, help me.....by posting a short recap on what your opinions are on the issues that are being discussed. Feel free to include counter point, and anything else you feel well help me better understand whats going on here, and possibly get this thread back on track.
Cheers,
Hat
Well let's see here, I make a post several pages back saying the I don't think the horde have any reason to raid the stormwind stockades, rankorr somehow interprets this as me saying the alliance has no bad apples, which sets him off on a big rant on me, then it turns into a mud-slinging contest of faction morality between me, rank, and adamsm, with me being called biased, boneheaded, and all variations of logic-impaired simply for disagreeing with them. At worst, I called them biased back.
Then, when it seemed the argument had ended, rank claims that the horde prisoners from the skyfire that crashed on the wandering isle were horde who were helping take down deathwing who were imprisoned right after deathwing was slain, then I asked for a link, which he provided. Upon double skimming through it, I found nothing that said or implied this, absolutely nothing, to which I called him out on, since he's now making up stuff which I don't like. I also found this :
http://www.wowpedia.org/images/thumb/4/41/Horde-alliance_pandaren.jpg/800px-Horde-alliance_pandaren.jpg
A description of both the alliance and horde, which paints them both in a favorable light, the alliance more so as honor and justice pursuing good guys, and the horde as hated outcasts who have a dark side. Adamsm then claims that it's a joke, and that I'm a fool for being incapable of seeing it's a joke. I point out that there's nothing to imply that it's a joke, nor any reason for it to be a joke. He simply says "you have no sense of humor" which angers me because I can tell he's just plain denying it, it's a form of denial called "minimization", which is accepting what was done or said but denying it's seriousness, and it also angers me because he's trying to act like I'm logic-defective for not being able to see a non-existent joke.
Rank says it's flavor text, I point out that it's a big panel for players to pick a side, not flavor text, he denies it. Between this hostility, sigma is calling me a "court jester" who no one takes seriously, and adamsm is saying I ruined my credibility on this site by taking that elune is a naaru wow insider article seriously way back when.
So that basically sums it up.
nice one-sided way to make yourself look harmless.
nobody is biting though.
Here is a REAL recap of what's been happening (Without sugar-coating, you want one? BUY YOUR OWN SUGAR)
We've been (for the past several days) trying to hammer down the FACT (this is not an opinion, the very devs of the game and most fans agree have acknowledged it) that neither faction (Alliance or horde) are the good guys.
That they are BOTH morally gray, and they have their good guys and their bad guys.
Here comes sold with endless tirades after tirades saying that the alliance is umblemished, pure, the white knights, the paragons of freedom and justice and that they are not gray at all. Sometimes he paraphrases it by saying that there may be some few evil guys on it but that the alliance as a whole is not gray but white, and adds that the horde on the other hand is barely 1 day away from barbarism, and if they aren't outright evil, they are VERY gray.
We (by "we" I mean mostly Adamsm Sigma, and myself) try to prove to sold (With irrefutable sources of lore) to show sold how wrong he is (by outlining several of the dishonorable, murky, evil actions the alliance has done, such as breaking the peace treaty with their attack on durotar, and Honor point, them sending assassins after Thrall, and wiping out any bystanders who witnessed the deed, their excessive cruelty to the prisoners of the concentration camps, the fact that they incarcerated non-combatants in those concentration camps, and a really REALLY long list of ect)
Sold just covers his ears yells LALALALALALALALALALALALALA, and says one of "Those were retconned" or "we don't know who did that" or "that was justified" or "those are bad apples", or any combination of the above.
naturally, we respond that he's biased for refusing to see the truth, and in turn he reports every single one of our posts, making us look like we're messing with his mom or something.
His credibility on this board is demolished, I dunno if you hang around here a lot hat, but we take lore VERY seriously, and someone who starts spreading BS (Soldrethar is not the first, before him there was Darkton, and Fojar, and at least 2 more) is called out on it. If we start to allow anyone to say whatever they want about the lore, we soon stop having a discussion about the in-game events, and start comparing fan-fics.
Canon exists for a reason, and if canon isn't respected, chaos ensues.
So there you have it hat, taht's the whole reason for this crap-storm. Soldrethar refusing to compromise his PERSONAL point of view.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm not really in the mood to read lots of lore posts right now, but at the same time, its like the last 6 or 7 posts had no indication of what you guys are acting so hostile about.
So how about, you help me, help you, help me.....by posting a short recap on what your opinions are on the issues that are being discussed. Feel free to include counter point, and anything else you feel well help me better understand whats going on here, and possibly get this thread back on track.
Cheers,
Hat
Over all: Some people take every thing they read waaaaaaaaaay too seriously.
On points:
The idea of one faction being pure good while the other isn't, just doesn't work, and has never been stated as such in Azeroth....since that would kill the entire point of playing the game. People enjoy having gray in their faction choice, and don't enjoy other people declaring them as pure Black or White.
For the Pandaren: It's an advertisement by the factions to get the Pandarens into their group; but it doesn't mean that Blizzard themselves actually think like that. I see it as a good joke aimed at the people who take their faction pride way to &*!@ing seriously, and need their chosen group to be good or evil, no matter what the Lore says otherwise.
For Metzen saying one faction is good, the other is bad: was never said, as he told the world that it was in the words of Varian, and not his own.
In regards to Sold and his credibility: As he's been banned from this site 5 times before, always for losing his top and attacking anyone who posted anything that could be seen as painting the his chosen race or faction as 'dark', yes, I don't take a lot of what he says seriously at all. And of course, his own faction bias does blind him to a large number of things.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
/shrug I don't actually care what you say Sold you are right(since you don't give a %^&* what anyone else says unless they are agreeing with you); I'm just answering what Hat asked.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Morec0
The Lich King - Proving Badass Does Not Die When You Do
Post by
Rankkor
The Lich King - Proving Badass Does Not Die When You Do
badass doesn't die when you do, it dies when your creators turn you into a flanderized saturday-morning-cartoon-badguy.
I miss War3 lich king. And war3 Arthas. WoW's lich king was laughably evil.
BTW;
People really seems to be obsessed with drawing Sylvannas
. Both her and alextrazsa seem to have the largest amount of fan-art dedicated to them.
/sarcasm
Gee, I wonder why
/sarcasm
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
I wouldn't call the lich king a saturday morning cartoon villain in wrath.....my only beef with how he was written is, I don't really see any motivation for him doing what he did. I mean really, why was he wanting to turn the world into an undead empire? Power? Sadism? Lulz? It's never once explained what his motivations were, I know frostmourne stole is soul, but still, it's not explain why he did what he did. What did he want? What exactly did he want? It's never once explained what his reasons for doing all the horrible things he did were, he just seemed to be evil for the sake of it.
I mean all they had to do was say he wanted control of everyone, power, or that he had a massive boner for causing pain. But they didn't, which pisses me off. At least deathwing had the crazy excuse, and how he hated the responsibility of being the earth warder, but arthas has no motivation for what he did. It's stupid.
that's not my gripe.
See, on Warcraft 3 what exactly did Arthas did? he killed off 60% of the main cast, that's what he did, along with offing 3 kingdoms of the alliance (Lordaeron, Quel'thalas, Dalaran) and then fused with the lich king. Whenever it was Arthas vs anyone with a name, Arthas would kick major ass.
On WOTLK, we meet him, he goes all like "I'm so powerful, I'm gonna taunt you, then walk away without touching you, because that's beneath me"
Know who else is like that? the bad guys from the Adam West's 60's batman version.
On ALL of WOTLK, rather than be the supreme master of death he was on War3 and FT, The lich king just sits on his ass, only rarely getting off it to taunt everyone, then flee via magic portal. Shows up on borean tundra to taunt, taunts some more on dragonblight, then some more on zul'drak, then some more on the trial of the crusader, ect ect.
Someone with a more pragmatic villainy eliminates threats, I mean seriously, opening a portal in the middle of the crusader arena, just to gloat? Arthas never gloated on war3, he sliced people up with his sword (or crushed them with his hammer before having said sword)
I dunno, villains in general have had a massive "Villain Decay" on WOW. I find it really stupid that we actually have more pragmatic villainous figures within the alliance and horde, than within the scourge, or the legion, or the twilight's hammer.
I'd like a recurring villain, that we encounter along the way ,and who actively TRIES to pose a threat to us, rather than gloat and taunt then flee via magic portal.
Post by
Rankkor
Same goes for Sylvanas - we get it, Blizzard made corpse&*!@ing fantasies cool all of a sudden. Would the collective fanbase get over it already?
I don't think it has anything to do with her being a corpse. Alextrazsa has just as many fan-art dedicated to her as Sylvannas does. Its the thong man, its all about the Thong. You don't see many fan-arts of Jaina or Tyrande, or Aponi, or anyone really =/
women with a thong = no less than 50 fan arts.
Women with no thong = at most 3.
Post by
Adamsm
It's funny how many people you tell that screwing Sylvanas is necrophilia...and they tell you no it isn't.....yeah....fandumb/horny idiots at their worst.....
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
It's funny how many people you tell that screwing Sylvanas is necrophilia...and they tell you no it isn't.....yeah....fandumb/horny idiots at their worst.....
"It doesn't count cuz she's hot", or "she doesn't look like she's rotting" hurrrrrrrrr, god I wonder how many fans sylvanas would have if she was male.
about as many fangirls as
he does
(what? he's a vampire (An unliving insult to vampires across the world, but a fanged bloodsucker nonetheless), by definition they are undead too.)
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
It's funny how many people you tell that screwing Sylvanas is necrophilia...and they tell you no it isn't.....yeah....fandumb/horny idiots at their worst.....
"It doesn't count cuz she's hot", or "she doesn't look like she's rotting" hurrrrrrrrr, god I wonder how many fans sylvanas would have if she was male.
about as many fangirls as
he does
(what? he's a vampire (An unliving insult to vampires across the world, but a fanged bloodsucker nonetheless), by definition they are undead too.)
But haven't you heard? Wanting to bang a walking corpse is okay as long as it's sexy.
blech..... I'll pass.
Besides, even if she was alive, her personality SUCKS. Crazy and Psycho is not really a big turn on for me.
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