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Post by
Monday
God how I hate this thing
The Last Relic of Argus
and here is why:
http://sarakleeyo.webcomic.ws/comics/67/
But
but
but
I love my Last Relic =/
Post by
Adamsm
The alliance and horde have always been attacking each other even from vanilla, and in wrath there was still no official declaration of war, varian obviously wanted to go to war with them, but he never officially started it. Now I'm not saying garrosh is gonna die........but.........
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3992143
"Garrosh Hellscream has a vision for the Horde, a vision of a united Kalimdor that can only be realized over the ashes of the Alliance. He’s craftier than any of his foes realize, and
his grim determination to win at all costs -- even at the expense of his own people -- is plunging the world into chaos
."
......he's gonna die.
Dude, go back and do you questing, seriously, or look up the video for Battle of the Undercity where Varian get's in Thrall's face and tells him he's going to destroy the Horde: How in the name of all that is Holy is that not a Direct Call to War? Jesu Christo on a stick, learn to read already and let go of your bias. And Varian has called for the destruction of the Horde(again, Battle for the Undercity) so how is that any better then what Garrosh is saying? If Garrosh is gonna die, then so is Varian under that 'logic'. Also, you keep avoid the Broken Front comment: That was part of the War. Oh and One More THING: Go read the first few chapters of the Shattering, where they tell us there is a TRUCE between the Alliance and the Horde, and then read the rest of the book as the truce is destroyed and the war starts up again due to outside forces. For Fel's Sake Man: Stop ignoring things already, you are back sliding to your old Lupinedruid personality and remember what happened to you back then.
Post by
Rankkor
The alliance and horde have always been attacking each other even from vanilla, and in wrath there was still no official declaration of war, varian obviously wanted to go to war with them, but he never officially started it. Now I'm not saying garrosh is gonna die........but.........
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3992143
"Garrosh Hellscream has a vision for the Horde, a vision of a united Kalimdor that can only be realized over the ashes of the Alliance. He’s craftier than any of his foes realize, and
his grim determination to win at all costs -- even at the expense of his own people -- is plunging the world into chaos
."
......he's gonna die.
Dude, go back and do you questing, seriously, or look up the video for Battle of the Undercity where Varian get's in Thrall's face and tells him he's going to destroy the Horde: How in the name of all that is Holy is that not a Direct Call to War? Jesu Christo on a stick, learn to read already and let go of your bias. And Varian has called for the destruction of the Horde(again, Battle for the Undercity) so how is that any better then what Garrosh is saying? If Garrosh is gonna die, then so is Varian under that 'logic'. Also, you keep avoid the Broken Front comment: That was part of the War. Oh and One More THING: Go read the first few chapters of the Shattering, where they tell us there is a TRUCE between the Alliance and the Horde, and then read the rest of the book as the truce is destroyed and the war starts up again due to outside forces. For Fel's Sake Man: Stop ignoring things already, you are back sliding to your old Lupinedruid personality and remember what happened to you back then.
don't forget the PRE-SHATTERING attack the alliance made on Honor's Point, or the fact that they mobilized troops to Durotar while the treaty was still in place.
=/ quite frankly sold, for someone who claims to be a lore fan................. you're ignoring quite a lot of it.
Edit: Anyhow, I'm off. TIME FOR SKYRIM!
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
/sigh You know, whatever Sold: If that's how you want to think, completely ignoring everything else, go right ahead....just tell me one teeny tiny little thing....Where did the Theramore attackers in Durotar come from? Since the Horde quest givers there say the new troops showed up before the Shattering started......
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Then read the Shattering; you can bet the CDev did. Also, that's still ignoring things Sold.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Actually Sold, Wolfheart is pre-Cataclsym as well; happens before the start of the actual expansion, since Gilneas has their Tree and Mal/Tyrande come to welcome a new worgen player to the Alliance.....so yeah......
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
It was in response to the horde attacking the night elves in ashenvale
, the humans from theramore just moved in to help them. Meaning that theramore wasn't attacking the horde as a pre-emptive strike or for the sake of conquering, but to defend their allies. So, based on what the cdev said, garrosh shot first, not the alliance, not han, not greedo, garrosh, and theramore was attacking in retaliation.
and the horde attacking ashenvale was in response to the alliance attacking them in Honor Point and Durotar FIRST.
The alliance attacks in these places happened BEFORE the shattering. When did the horde attack on gilneas happened? that's right baby, AFTER the shattering.
Post by
Rankkor
I never read the shattering :(, also, that would have been retconned with this new tid bit. I'm not trying to ignore anything, I'm going by my interpretations of what the cdev has said.
then stop arguing with us man.
On the shattering its specifically said that the horde and the alliance are in a TRUCE. a truce is a cease-fire. A cease-fire only happens when active WAR is declared. Who declared active war? VARIAN. How? by attacking the leader of THE BLOODY HORDE.
Its not rocket science you know? if some russian General attacks the president of the united states, and said attack is endorsed by the russian government, then that is in an on itself a declaration of war between the 2 countries.
Then read the Shattering; you can bet the CDev did. Also, that's still ignoring things Sold.
Ok the npc says the alliance attacked before the shattering, but this new cdev post says that they attacked in retaliation of garrosh attacking ashenvale, which, as seen in wolfheart, was post-cataclysm. So this is a retcon.
http://www.wowpedia.org/Kilrok_Gorehammer
not quite.
Here's a rough timeline of events.
1: alliance BEFORE THE SHATTERING attacks Honor Point, and starts mobilizing troops into Durotar.
2: Horde seeing this, takes it as a breaching of the non-agression pact they signed, and as such mobilizes their troops into Ashenvale, and attempts to secure Gilneas to get another port to launch further attacks.
3: Alliance sees the horde on ashenvale and sends further troops, this is when the taurajo massacre happens, and when the full-on war happens due to the events of wolfheart in ashenvale.
its not so hard to get you know?
Post by
Adamsm
Actually Sold, Wolfheart is pre-Cataclsym as well; happens before the start of the actual expansion, since Gilneas has their Tree and Mal/Tyrande come to welcome a new worgen player to the Alliance.....so yeah......
They mention deathwing as a threat during the novel, and the cataclysm happened before the worgen were rescued from gilneas, which was before wolfheart. So ya, this is a retcon.
/head desk repeatedly
No, that's not correct either Sold: It goes the Shattering novel then Curse of the Worgen which occurs four days before the start of Forsaken Invasion/the Cataclsym then Wolfheart
then
the Expansion itself; please please please learn your time line and stop saying incorrect information. Of course Deathwing is a threat as he just tore up things causing the damage to the world...and on top of that, the Gilneans are now wanting back into the Alliance. But that still doesn't ignore the fact that Alliance forces were in Horde locations
before
the Cataclysm started, so it's not a ret-con, as the quests where there before Wolfheart was out.
Post by
Rankkor
Actually Sold, Wolfheart is pre-Cataclsym as well; happens before the start of the actual expansion, since Gilneas has their Tree and Mal/Tyrande come to welcome a new worgen player to the Alliance.....so yeah......
They mention deathwing as a threat during the novel, and the cataclysm happened before the worgen were rescued from gilneas, which was before wolfheart. So ya, this is a retcon.
I think you're confusing terms here.
There's the Shattering (novel) there's the "shattering" (The actual elemental breaking of the world, when 50% of azeroth just goes BOOM, this happens when deathwing bursts from the maelstrom) For conviniense sake's we're gonna call this one "second sundering" and then there's Cataclysm (The actual expansion pack, in other words, the events we see in-game.)
The events on Wolfheart happen AFTER the shattering novel, BEFORE the cataclysm (game) and AFTER the second sundering (elemental breaking of the world)
Since...... ya know, 1/3 of gilneas sinks into the ocean.
Since you seem to be a little "slow" tonight here's another timeline regarding worgens.
1: Deathwing busts out of Maelstrom, causing half the world to go to the s*bleep*thole.
2: Gilneans are rescued and flee their nation, seeking refuge in Darnassus.
3: Events in wolfheart happen. They mention Deathwing cuz he's the one who caused the bloody breaking of the world in the first place.
4: Events on cataclysm (game) happen.
So yes, Wolfheart happened AFTER the second sundering, but BEFORE the game.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
Sold that's wrong, I'm sorry to say. But whatever; again, the truth doesn't seem to matter to you, so I'm done. Keep thinking however you want to think, but remember this: Ignoring things just means your future debates will end up as half-truth/incorrect.
And no, there hasn't been a single Ret-con at this point for Cata sorry to say. You just want to see it like that, to fit whatever weird view of the Alliance you have.
Edit: Also, just as note, when Garrosh shows up in Silverpine, the gates to Gilneas have just fallen, and the Forsaken were already within waging war....and the Cataclysm itself happened a few days before that. Just like the Goblin starting zone, the Worgen one happens before the actual Cataclysm occurs, as does a large portion of the Curse of the Worgen.
Post by
Rankkor
It was in response to the horde attacking the night elves in ashenvale
, the humans from theramore just moved in to help them. Meaning that theramore wasn't attacking the horde as a pre-emptive strike or for the sake of conquering, but to defend their allies. So, based on what the cdev said, garrosh shot first, not the alliance, not han, not greedo, garrosh, and theramore was attacking in retaliation.
and the horde attacking ashenvale was in response to the alliance attacking them in Honor Point and Durotar FIRST.
The alliance attacks in these places happened BEFORE the shattering. When did the horde attack on gilneas happened? that's right baby, AFTER the shattering.
Actually, no. The attack on ashenvale happened after the cataclysm, as seen in wolfheart,
and the humans of theramore attacked to help their night elf allies there, and the attack on ashenvale happened AFTER the attack on gilneas. The orc's dialog was retconned. And by shattering, I mean the cataclysm. @Adam, if deathwing was mentioned by the alliance delegates in wolfheart, that means the cataclysm already happened, and I do recall them speaking of the damage deathwing did to the world. And in wolfheart, the theramore delegate simply says that theramore is preparing for war, which means they still had not attacked yet.
Garrosh attacked gilneas, then attacked ashenvale, then theromore went in to help.
WHICH IS MY POINT EXACTLY JESUSCHRIST MAN!
The horde attacked ashenvale AFTER THE CATACLYSM, in response to the attack the alliance did on the horde BEFORE THE CATACLYSM, HOW EXACTLY IS THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
You haven't read the shattering so why are you still arguing?
The orc's dialog was retconned.
bullsh1t.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Sigh......ok, I'm terrible at explanations, so let me make myself clearer. The cdev says theramore was attacking the horde in response to them attacking the night elves, which happened after they attacked gilneas, which was all after the cataclysm.
So:
Joe-orc says the humans attacked before the cataclysm, which means they attacked before the horde attacked ashenvale.
Cdev is saying that the humans attacked in RESPONSE to the horde attacking ashenvale, and the horde attacked ashenvale, as we know, AFTER the catalysm, which means the humans attacked AFTER the cataclysm, which completely contradicts Joe-orc's dialog. Also, this means the humans did not attack out of conquest, but to aid their allies in ashenvale.
Thus we can conclude that this is a ret-con.
nope
The Cdev says that only regarding the humans wearing theramoore tabards.
Hence this proves why you should really get over your bias and do horde quests. The human troopers in Honor Point don't have any theramoore tabards, nor do the humans in durotar, those are OTHER humans (from STORMWIND) that attacked the horde PRIOR to the cataclysm.
Edit: Besides, this is all taken from a POORLY TRANSLATED ARTICLE that was in Chinese/Taiwanese, for all we know, the dev could had used a completely different wording regarding the presence of the THERAMOORE troopers in the BARRENS, (AKA; taurajo, and southern barrens in general).
Do recall that the (Poor) translation says garrosh wanted to "eradicate" all night-elves from the continent, yet from what happened with krom'gar we know that's just simply not true. He may want to conquer them, but "eradicate" them? nope.
So, instead of taking hasty conclusions from a POORLY TRANSLATED ARTICLE, while not having the facts straight (haven't done horde quests in the area, and haven't read shattering either) why don't you instead wait for official ENGLISH confirmation by OUR devs about the issue?
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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