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Post by
Atik
I'm still confused at what makes certain characters so god-like compared to everyone else.
Like, why can no other mage in all of Azeroth be like Rhonin? And no Paladin can be like Tirion....
It just annoys me, because they don't even give us a good excuse.
Post by
355559
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
It's just tradition I suppose.
Tradition that spans every race and nation?
I have a hard believing a Blood Knight would be a-okay with someone saying "You can't practice that hard, it is against the rules to be as good as Tirion!"
Post by
Adamsm
why can no other mage in all of Azeroth be like Rhonin?Because he's an Author avatar for the most part; but Jaina is easily his equal if not more powerful: Sadly though, she doesn't get enough lime light moments to prove it.
And no Paladin can be like Tirion....It's more because he's the Ashbringer then anything else.
Post by
Atik
What about Varian, Thrall, the Windrunners, ect?
And I mean, what is it about Jania and Rhonin that they are so powerful compared to every other mage in all of Azeroth?
Post by
Adamsm
Varian is the Champion of the Wolf Ancient, The Windrunners come from a long line of Rangers, Thrall is the World Shaman, etc etc.
They are what they are; you don't get promoted to a member of the Six without having the power to back it up: Kael was one, Krasus was one, and so on. It's just like in real life how there are always people better then anyone else at certain things.
Post by
Atik
It's just like in real life how there are always people better then anyone else at certain things.
Not really.
IRL, no matter how good you are at something, there always can-and eventually will-be someone better.
That never seems to happen in WoW.
Post by
Rankkor
Wish Blizzard would give others limelight though, instead of just letting one character hog it all.
they have, its not like ALL the books have been about thrall ya know? I mean, WOTA and day of the dragon were all about rhonin.
ditto for varian and his comic, and so on.
Even the shattering book wasn't all about Thrall, as Baine and Anduin had an equal protagonic role there.
Its fair to say that almost all major lore figures (barring some exeptions) have had their day in the limelight. (Some more than others, Varian, Garrosh, and Thrall are the largest offenders when it comes to hugging the spot-light)
I'm still confused at what makes certain characters so god-like compared to everyone else.
Like, why can no other mage in all of Azeroth be like Rhonin? And no Paladin can be like Tirion....
It just annoys me, because they don't even give us a good excuse.
discipline and dedication.
Malfurion is the strongest druid in the world because he's been taught not by another druid, but by a demi-god himself, and has been practicing druidism for tens of thousands of years (yes his time hibernating on the emerald dream counts)
Thrall is the strongest shaman because the shaman's strength depends directly on how much the elements favor you, and for some reason or another they favor thrall (Saving an entire race from slavery and single-handedly redeeming them in the process may have something to do with it)
Tirion is considered the strongest paladin because of both A: his incorruptible honor and rectitude (he was willing to be exiled from the alliance rather than smear his honor by not protecting an innocent) and because he has a rather powerhouse weapon that can make undeat folk sh1t bricks just by looking at it.
Before Tirion, Uther was considered the strongest paladin alive simply for being the first, and because he was a holy man.
Jaina (not rhonin, I dont give a rat's ass about what knaak says) is the strongest mage alive because she's a bookworm, when it comes to magic, the longer you study, practice and perfect your spells the strongest you get. Its much like getting a doctorate on major physics, you dont get to get a nobel prize in physics unless you bust your ass studying hard.
the same can be said for Sylvannas when it comes to archery, if she's the best archer in azeroth is because she's spent god knows how many years practicing with it. Now that she trows dark magic with her archery, well........ lets just say she has an edge against most other archers.
Gul'dan was the strongest warlock ever because he was a backstabbing bastard, who was willing to sacrifice or screw anything or anyone to become stronger. As far as warlocks goes, the least morality to shackle you, the more extreme measures you use to gain more power.
this boils down to everyone who's the best at something.
They are the best because they are dedicated to their craft, and not everyone matches their dedication.
Why was the great bambino considered the best baseball player ever? because he practiced, not everyone put as much dedication as him on the sport. This can be said too for people like tiger woods, or michael jordan.
Post by
Adamsm
It's just like in real life how there are always people better then anyone else at certain things.
Not really.
IRL, no matter how good you are at something, there always can-and eventually will-be someone better.
That never seems to happen in WoW.
Because it's the nature of the MMO and the Warcraft Lore. And no true; there are still historical figures who have yet to be one upped in the present.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Atik
Cody the Kobold for hero of WoW!
Post by
Adamsm
And Wrynn's Story is up.
Edit: Well, that def makes up for the disappointing story that was Sylvanas leader tale. I enjoyed it, and really liked the Anduin and Varian scenes, as they made up for the all the issues that had started in Wolfheart...sadly though, for all that the author knew about that, they left out the part where Varian had conquered his anger so....can't give it a perfect rating.
I liked the fight scene as well, but that was a little to obvious where the Twilight Cultists came from an why.../sigh No subtlety.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
He did absolutely nothing worth noting from vanilla till cataclysm other than go to nagrand in outland and meet with the maghar and their leader garrosh hellscream. Even metzen mentioned last blizzcon that they "never really did anything with him". He's no more the main character of WoW than varian is, or gelbin, or baine. For a primary protagonist, thrall has done virtually nothing worth noting in world of warcraft itself until cataclysm
he's done more than the other leaders combined from vanilla to the start of cataclysm.
Since Magni, Gelbin, Vol'jin, Sylvannas, Cairne, Bolvar, and Tyrande NEVER left their home cities not even once from vanilla to WOTLK except Thrall.
And while for you his actions are meaningless, for the horde they werent. In nagrand he traveled personally to annex the maghar to the horde. While you may say that's nothing, I say that's something. While the other leaders weren't featured in any of the 5mans, he was on 1.
if you were to take a look at in-game apereances OUTSIDE of their main capital, no other faction leader has more than Thrall.
The other leaders just recently woke up after WOTLK with things like battle for undercity, operation gnomeregan, zalazane's fall.
And so far, Thrall has shown up in both the comics and books. Face it dude, whether you like it or not, he's had a more protagonic role than any other faction leader so far (Up untill they added Varian and Garrosh that is.
I also wanna know how thrall went from a virtually normal shaman who was more like a warrior that a shaman, to god-mode uber world shaman in an instant.
first of all, Thrall started off as a warrior yes, but even from day 1 he has always been a REALLY strong shaman, (need I remind you that he single-handedly brought down A CASTLE after being a shaman for just a few months? and then 1shoted a FRIKKING NECROPOLIS out of the sky after barely 5 years of being a shaman)
so he was never an average joe shaman, from day 1 he's always been a stronger-than-average shaman, and this is (and seriously, I'm getting tired of repeating it)
BECAUSE THE ELEMENTS FAVOR HIM.
Shamans are unique from the other classes, because while the other classes have to bust their asses for years to hone their skills and perfect their techniques, a shaman could have near god-like power from day 1 if the elements REALLY favor him or her.
One of the best examples is nobundo, who hadn't yet EVEN BEGAN his shaman training and had barely been talking to the wind for
2 DAYS
and he already was able to summon a hurricane to swat away his opponents.
For shamans, it matters little if you've been a shaman for days, or decades, it matters even less if you descend from a race that has practiced shamanism for millenia or just a few months, if the elements favor you, they favor you, and whether the rest of the world likes it or not, you are a god-damned power-house.
A good alliance-non-shaman example would be Tyrande Wisperwind. She is a priestess of the moon, and while she was a frikking novice (read: one who had yet to take her vows, and hadn't completed her initiation) was already way more powerful than the SENIOR HIGH-PRIESTESS of the order. Why? because for the priestesses of the moon, how much power they wield depends on how highly they are favored by Elune, and Tyrande was more favored by the goddess than the other priestesses, even if she was a brand new initiate who had very little years in the order. Simple as that. Just as it worked with her, and nobody b1tched and moaned and whined "why is she the most powerful priestess? a more senior one should be the strongast" blah-blah-blah so too it should work with thrall.
Unless there's a hidden faction bias over there creeping up.
just accept the fact that deity-based classes aren't exactly fair in who gets to be the top honcho, why? because whomever the deity favors more, that someone gets to be the king of the hill. No amount of training, no lineage of seasoned practitioners of the crafts, or amount of willpower will change that. Unless somehow the one favored by the deity disappoints them, and falls out of grace.
That being said, having a lot of power and knowing how to channel and USE that power are 2 completely different things, and this is why Thrall has repeatedly asked for help and training from other senior shamans, because while his raw power is huge due to the elements favoring him, his experience in how to commune with them is smaller than most other shamans.
I think he was more interesting as a warrior-shaman.
the one thing we agree. I liked it more when he used the black plate, not that hobo robe. Plus before he was quite unique in that he was a warrior-shaman, just as good in armed combat as he was in magical combat.
In general I tend to love more Magic Knight classes (those that mix sword and spell) due to this simple formula: 50% melee + 50% magic = 100% awesome
Post by
588688
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
I'd have to disagree there Sold; Malfurion is firmly in the camp of the Alliance, but he does things that are heroic for the entire world, and is respected by both sides for what he has done.
Same thing during the Nightmare War where Varian and Baine lead the armies in the Dream to give Mal time to destroy the physical form of Xavius; you can be a member of the factions and still be a hero to both sides.
Post by
Atik
Since Magni, Gelbin, Vol'jin,
Sylvannas
, Cairne, Bolvar, and Tyrande NEVER left their home cities not even once from vanilla to WOTLK except Thrall.
*cough*ICC5mans*cough*
Hell, I would argue Sylvannas was one of the main characters of Wrath, and if not; she should have been.
Post by
Behelich
Sylvanas is a bitсh.
Concerning the Wrynn short story, I really liked it. The small parts, like Jaina comparing Varian to Arthas, and Anduin taking a level in badass.
'course, now we know why was Benedictus so baffled at the Wrynns' arrival, so it kinda spoiled the impression. Still, nicely done.
Post by
Rankkor
And yes, bring back warrior-shaman thrall, he was actually interesting IMO, being just a normal shaman who acted more like a warrior, and was able to kick ass without being all god-mode uber world shaman. He was much more believable and interesting in my opinion than the orc-jesus thrall of cataclysm.
as I said before, Thrall has never been an average joe shaman, NEVER a normal shaman, he demolished a castle within months of starting his shaman training, and within less than a decade was 1shoting necropolis out of the sky.
Then we get to the battle of undercity when he summons tsunamis, earthquakes, tornadoes, and lightning storms to wipe out an entire army.
And all of this was before cataclysm.
if anything, thrall in cataclysm seems somewhat weaker, because he hasn't had any direct combat. At least all his appearances in cataclysm have been non-combat except when he fought the goblin leader (against whom he was holding back because for some reason he didn't wanted to squash him like a bug, he wanted him alive so he could lead the goblins).
Ditto for his appearances in the 2 most recent books where he has acted more like a diplomat than a combatant. His duel against blackmoore was strictly as a warrior, at no point he used his shamanistic powers against him, and the rest of his actions on the book were just as a mediator.
That's the problem, he can't be "teh hero" of warcraft if he is affiliated with one of the two playable factions. The important things he has done up until cataclysm have been for the horde, not the entirety of azeroth.
I never said he was the only protagonist figure in warcraft. I did said that out of all the CURRENT leaders, he has had a more active role in the game, actually leaving his comfy throne room to do something. You can count with 1 hand how many times u've seen the other racial leaders outside of their respective Throne rooms, but with thrall........... yhea u're gonna need more than 1 hand to count that.
And then that just tells the playerbase that one of the two player factions in the game are the main characters and the other side is just there. It just can't work, it's not fair to the other side of the playerbase.
and that would had been true if there weren't other important figures in the other side (which prior to WOTLK kinda was true) but as adamsm said Malfurion has had a rather large role in cataclysm (so far, its been larger than thrall actually, at least in-game, he's kicked the ass of Ragnaros twice in a row now)
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