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Post by
358417
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
All members of the Horde are opposed to the Alliance by definition. That makes them racist. Vice Versa as well.
What makes Varian's racism so much
there is a HUGE diference between oposing someone and believing that EVERYONE is evil.
let me put it on perspective.
from varian's side, all orcs are evil, every one , he said it himself, and to this day he hasn't taken it back , so for him the orc farmers on the barrens are just as evil as the garona herself.
from varian's point of view orcs are not even sentient beings, he sees them as nothing more than animals (again said by himself on the tournament)
other than garrosh ,and his loyalists (like sky-reaver korm, conqueror krenna, and overlord agmar) no horde NPC or leader expresses that way.
oposing the alliance is one thing, but believing that all of them are evil and must be purged is a diferent one, and so far, other than garrosh and his hommies, nobody else expresses the same way varian does.
believe it or not, the orcs admire the tenacity of the humans, because orcs have a warrior culture, they respect strenght above all else, and while they opose the stormwind humans, they don't generalize them under 1 category as varian does.
for varian Orc=monster
for an orc Human=a lot of things, some are monsters, some are good combatants, some are enemys, some are jerks, some are saints.
my point is that you can't judge an ENTIRE RACE just by the actions of a few individuals, and varian does that, hell if all it takes is the actions of 1 person for me to hate humanity (on real life) I would had my reasons to hate mankind a long time ago.
untill varian can tell the diference between good and evil, he's still a racist. (he started to tell the diference on ICC; let's hope he keepts it up)
Post by
358417
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Orcs and Forsaken have reasons to hate the Alliance too, and they are valid - Even if people argue otherwise.
And the Alliance is a body made up of particular races, as is the Horde. As the two are opposed to eachother, all members of each faction are racist. Yet Varian's racism is somehow worse?
Please say where I said that. I would love a quote. The Horde have reasons to distrust the Alliance, and vice-versa. The main problem is that predominately Stormwind can not accept that things within the Horde have changed under Thrall, and if he hadn't taken control the Alliance would be in a far worse position than it is in now.
What I am saying is that racism is bad, no matter how justified it is. The fact that Varian's father was killed by a half-Orc assassin, or that Garrosh thinks that Humans are too weak, does not matter. They both want the same things; War, murder, genocide.
Post by
Lecks
Wait, are you saying that Varian isn't racist towards Orcs? Because I'm confused, if you think this is all just a race war.
Edit: to Fojar
Post by
Skreeran
Racism is quite prominent in the lore, yes.
Let's look this over:
Tyrande shows no greater animosity towards a particular race of enemies. She's still vengeful for Cenarius, but we've seen that she still treats orcs as people (Brox).
Velen is certainly not a racist.
Magni and Mekkatorque don't really seem to show any greater dislike for the Horde than is normal for enemies in a war.
Cairne hasn't said or done anything racist.
Vol'jin hasn't said or done anything.
Same with Lor'themar.
Sylvanas hates humans. She is a racist.
Thrall treats all races equally.
Varian hates orcs with a passion, and claims that a single drop of orc blood in a person makes them untrustable. That's racism.
Post by
Rankkor
What you would propose is that he went from raging genocidal bigot to honorable hero in the span of what, a month?
he's still a raging genocidal bigot, however he did proved that he can show respect to the saurfang family, and to someone who is a father like he is.
he still has a heavy intence hatred for the orcs, but he let saurfang get his boy because he is also a father.
didn't you read what I said about the Iliad above? just because achilees let priam reclaim the body of hector doesn't mean he suddenly changed and stoped hating the troyans, it simply meant that even that rage-aholic knucklehead can show proper respect to a grieving father.
same goes for varian, he's not an honorable hero, you said "hes been honorable even to orcs" but acusing someone of atempted assassination without a single proof, and then go on to say that all orcs can't be trusted, and then on the tournament call them savages and animals isn't beign honorable, it's been a troublemaker.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Lecks
Sylvanas hates humans. She is a racist.
I disagree with this. Sylvanas hates the living, all of them, almost as much as she hates the Scourge.
Post by
358417
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Septimus
No flame wars in my thread. kthanxbai.
Post by
Patty
Easy peasy.
the
prejudice
that members of
one race
are intrinsically
superior
to members of
other races
The rambling about the Horde being "savages" Fits this category.
discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race Wait, Varian didn't say "Every time I killed a green-skinned abberation.." In the Undercity, no? I just invented that? I must have a good imagination.
The belief that each race has distinct and intrinsic attributes; The belief that one race is superior to all others;
Prejudice or discrimination based upon race
......
Do you want any more? May want to brush up on your own definitions first.
Fojar, don't be the next flamer please. We have enough issues with what we had before. Keep the discussion civil and relatively polite. As Septimus said, if not then.... "kthanxbai".
Post by
358417
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
There not talking about you per-say Fojar, just to cool it on some of your responses. There actually refering to someone else.
Post by
Rankkor
we're not talkign about "horde" here we're talking about orcs.
every orc varian has met (exept for thrall) has wronged him, but there are THOUSANDS of orcs varian has not met.
because of that he can't just say that no orc can be trusted, because there are several honorable orcs, but nohono, he only considers the ones he has met and makes a pre-judgement based on that.
heck, I'm dead serious, the only koreans I have ever met in my life is a bastards, but does that gives me the right to say that EVERY KOREAN is the exact same way? nope, just the ones I've met aren't nice people, but there are millions of koreans out there who are good people, and I can't just pass judgement on them out of the clear blue.
so, let's forget a moment this is about the horde, and let's focus on ORCS for a moment.
no other leader has a generalized view on the orcs, or any other race for that matter, velen ordered the execution of Matius (a blood-elf who ordered the execution of a draenei hero) but does velen judges the rest of the blood-elven race by the same standards? nope.
horde and alliance are at war, but when the time comes, they put aside their diferences and work togheter for a common goal, they did so at hyjal, and again at the war of the shifting sands, they did it again on the dark portal, and again on the sunwell.
excluding varian, the rest of the leadership of the horde and alliance may not exactly get along, but when it's time to put aside their diferences, they do so for the greater good.
but with varian......... he refuses to do it.
when the time came to face yoggsaron united, he refused to work.
I'm not saying varian should treat the orcs with unconditional love, I'm just saying that he shound't generalize all orcs as monsters.
They came from no where and lived to create genocide, and destroy.
This is what a animal is, they should not even be labeled as humanoids, they are not from Azeroth.
you would fit quite well with the republicans.
Post by
Patty
And Rankkor, you're absolutely hopeless.
Oh no, did I hurt the feelings of the grammar impaired Horde?
Post by
358417
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
Varian oposed the Horde after they attempted to assassinate him for the millionth time, but they became evil by using the plague.Hold on... Garona's assassination attempt was the first that I can think of...
He has said they can not be trusted, which is true seeing as how every orc he ever meets just wants to make his head thier trophey. All the orcs have ever been is destroy for him, and in Horde players eyes, thats all ok due to a simple change of words.Every orc... Heh...
That's obviously what Thrall wanted.
If you discounted the Old Horde (which, yes, you can do. He was a child when the Old Horde was operating, and now he's an adult. Much of the New Horde were also children at the same time as he was), then he really hasn't had that much %^&* to deal with with the New Horde.
There was Rehgar, who was operating under the Crimson Ring, an illegal organization, not the Horde.
And then there was Garona, who was mind-controlled and used by Cho'gall, and he should know this by now.
They came from no where and lived to create genocide, and destroy.The Old Horde did, yes. The New Horde is majorly composed of the children of those who originally came through, as well.
This is what a animal is, they should not even be labeled as humanoids, they are not from Azeroth.That's just silly. They are sentient beings, hence humanoid.
Sorry, but there are countless blood elfs and forsaken who think this, and lots of trolls have a un-ending hate for humanity. Orcs have quite a bit of quest-givers who love to hand ut quests to attack the Alliance.I'll give you the Forsaken (even though they have a decent reason), but the Blood Elves really don't have that big of a hateful presence. Neither to Darkspear trolls, beyond simple faction distrust.
You mean they don't love to formraid partys, and scoure places looking for inncoent humans, and go "Look! A pink-skin! Kill it!"Yes, they do not love that.
The thing is, he is not judging by a few indiviuals.
There are countless of orcs who have proved this.
Pretty much every orc loves to wor-ship the orc leaders who set out to destroy the human race, or they still are one of them, and have no guilt.You mean Doomhammer, I assume? I've explained him before.
a) He had to take Azeroth for his people so that they wouldn't die.
b) He set the orcs free from slavery. That's why he's a hero.
Just about every single orc clan has tried to eliminate humanity in one way or another. And you think thats all ok just because the Horde calls themselves "New Horde".No, it's okay because a great deal of the people from the Old Horde are dead or really old, and the New Horde is composed mostly of people who were too young to fight in the old wars.
Ultimately, you Varian supporters tend to show one belief, and that is that the Horde is absolutely evil and must be wiped off of Azeroth. That's why you're Varian supporters, because that's what he wants.
Well, news flash, it's not that simple. A great deal of the Horde is in fact honorable and deserving of life. I support both the Alliance and Horde, unlike those of you who believe that's it's simply black and white, Alliance good Horde bad.
you would fit quite well with the republicans.Hey, now... Don't drag politics into this. I vote Republican, thank you very much.
Post by
358417
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
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