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Post by
GVHB
I suppose a living death knight is a complete possibility (Arthas was alive, as far as I know, during the time he was a Death Knight). So, the Onslaught's DKs might be living humans who use necromantic magic and are melee-oriented.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Okay, I guess this has already been discussed to death, but I hope I'll get my answers nevertheless.
FACT: The Scarlet Onslaught employs its very own Death Knights,
whose abilities mirror that of the Ebon Knights
.
FACT: The game lists them as
humanoids
. Does it mean that there is a possibility for one to be a Death Knight while still being alive? (I.e., having to eat, breathe, sleep, possessing emotions and an ability to procreate etc.)
I wrote an article about that in the onslaught death knight page here in wowhead.
I'll copy&paste it.
Arthas is not the only one able to make Death knights.
BIG SPOILER ALERT! if you want to find this for yourself then STOP NOW!. if u don't mind the spoilers, then by all means, read on.
it turns out, that as soon as the scarlet onslaught arrived in northrend, they met someone who was believed to be dead. that someone is the admiral of the scarlet fleet Barean Westwind, (there is a statue and a plaque of him in the scarlet monastery's armory, inthe room where herod is) the weird thing is that even when several years have passed since the original invasion on northrend failed, the admiral has not aged one bit, and of the whole fleet he's the onlyone still alive.
later u find out that he's none other than MAL'GANIS, yup, THAT mal'ganis, the one that caused arthas to become a psycho.
turns out malganis didn't died on his original confrontation with arthas, so he hid inside the body of the admiral of the scarlet fleet Barean Westwind,(the same way that balnazar hid on the leader of the scarlet crusade forces in stratholme)
after so many years in northrend seeking a way to get revenge on arthas cause he beated him up, he finnally saw his oportunity on the scarlet crusaders and lured abendis to northrend by wispering to her in her dreams, his plan was simply to use them as pawns to kill arthas.
in fact if u read abendis diary (both the censored version at the scarlet enclave, as well as the full version looted directly from her corpse) u'll see that the only reason she even went to northred was because a voice told her "come to me" and of course as a zealot she is, imidietly asumed it was the holy light, but in reality it was mal'ganis all along, who was seeking new puppets to wage is little war against the lich king.
as u later find out he imparted a new "blessing" to the truest believers, and that's how the raven priests (shadow priests) and DeathKnights joined the scarlet onslaught.
these are plp who wilingly casted aside their humanity and last remnants of light and goodness to become vessels of revenge against arthas (I guess they truly believe the end justify the means)
so there u have it, they are NOT the same DK's that waged war on the crusade on the scarlet enclave, these guys are crusaders that arived in northrend and recieved a new "blessing" from the admiral.
is like rivendere said, crusaders are very stupid, one only has to make mention of the holy light and boom, they'll do ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING their superiors order, even cast aside their humanity, that's what zealots are, plp devoid of freewill or a sence of self.
so there it is.
Being undead yourself has NEVER been a requisite to be either a necromancer or a death knight. Kel'tuzad was alive during his time as a necromancer, and Arthas was aslo alive during his time as a Dk.
now, while living death knights may be ableto breathe, eat, sleep, and can thenically procreate, they don't generally have much emotion. Their minds get twisted with that dark power. Look at how arthas felt nothing when he murdered his own father and razed his own kingdom.
Also from a practical point of view, many death knights come to hate their living status regarding it as a weakness. And in some way, it is. Having to dedicate time of your day to eat, sleep, pee, poop, and needing to breath are all things that interrupt time you could spend in training, or combat.
As a result, most death knights who are still alive, soon sacrifice their own lives and become undead to never have to waste time in those activities. However the crusaders wound't do that, as they hate undeath with a passion, so while their mantra is "the end justify the means" I doubt they'd include "the end justifies becoming one of them"
^ wth? we can link videos?
ermmm no. xD
I'm part of the localization team, I'm responsible of writing all the spanish articles in the website, (like
this
and
this
) so I get a certain degree of admin-clearance. That being said I prolly shound't link vids without a solid reason xD.
Post by
Adamsm
Arthas was dying the moment he picked up Frostmourne; that's what the sudden hair/eye/skin change was meant to show. All Death Knights are dead, there is no way around that; if you notice Rank, a Hunter can track Player DK's with Track Humans up; it's game mechanic not lore.
Post by
Behelich
@Adamsm - I iz confused, so in Azeroth soul is equivalent to life?
E2: And I cannot help mentioning I saw a bluepost on the lines of
Technically, before his ultimate demise, Arthas has never died.
Post by
Rankkor
Arthas was dying the moment he picked up Frostmourne; that's what the sudden hair/eye/skin change was meant to show. All Death Knights are dead, there is no way around that; if you notice Rank, a Hunter can track Player DK's with Track Humans up; it's game mechanic not lore.
not really. There is no reason to list the onslaught DK's as humanoids if the intention was for them to be undead. but they are humanoids.
because they are not dead.
Arthas was also very much alive during his time as a DK, the hair/skin/eye change simply is a sing of corruption. Same as the change on the fel blood elves is the result of their dabbling on demonic arts. Arthas became a true undead once he cut out his heart and trew it on that pit below the frozen throne, but up to his confrontacion with Illidan he was still very much alive.
the very manual of war3 says that the death knights and necromancers of the scourge are very much alive, just like the zealots of the cult of the damned.
Game-mechanics dont count regarding players, but regarding mobs they do count very much so.
Post by
Rankkor
Slight off-topic:
why was wowwiki discontinued? all I see is everyone linking to wowpedia including the new oficial site. Did they had a fight or something?
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
457614
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
457614
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Slight off-topic:
why was wowwiki discontinued? all I see is everyone linking to wowpedia including the new oficial site. Did they had a fight or something?
As far as I understand, there was some trouble with the host, and therefore quite a few people emigrated, taking everything with them in the process.
Something about restrictions that Wikia imposed on the wowwiki team caused them to leave and create wowpedia, or so I read... somewhere.
Still doesn't explain how the internet is working as a hivemind and is only linking wowpedia ever since.
and what restrictions where those? was it really that bad that they decided it was better to create a new site altogheter?
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
457614
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
306612
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Except....how do you hand wave the fact that the Death Knight went through the starting zone? All player ones are part of that 'new' wave after all, so they've all experienced it...and well, you were dead at that point. I don't know why people have a problem with this concept, it's not a hard one.
exept that not all the DK's started on the scarlet enclave. Mind you there was already a CRAPLOAD of death knights during the third war, and none of them were dead.
being dead isn't MANDATORIAL to be a death knight. Most death knights however are dead simply because it frees them of the weaknesses of being alive, such as having to breath, eat, drink, pee, poop, sleep, ect.
but you CAN be a death knight and be alive as well. Power over undeath doesn't necesarily means you must be dead yourself. After all the dreadlords are the makers of necromancy and they are alive.
For all we know, the Onslaught Death Knights were forced conscripts from among the ranks of the Archeus that the Crusade took north them, and Mel'ganis brainwashed them into his servants, similar to the Raven/Shadow Priests.
bro' didn't you read my quote? in new heartglenn they specifically stated that when the scarlets fled the enclave they didn't had any death knights with them. They arrived in northrend, mal'ganis issued his "blessing" into the paladins turning them into LIVING death knights, and into the priests turning them into shadowpriests.
Acherus wasn't the genesis of death knights, that class already existed and was established LONG before the ebon blade landed on the enclave.
Again, I'm asking you to cite a specific source that says that all deaht knights MUST be dead. I cited you my proof that they can be alive (the warcraft 3 manual) Kel'tuzad was alive during his time as a necromancer. And saying that their grey hair, pale skin, and freaky eyes are signs they are dieing is also a moot point, as dark power corrupts people. Much the same way as fel power has it's signs, necromantic power also has its signs on the users.
The Cult of the Damned ultimate reward for any of it's member was to die. Becoming a Death Knight to your standard cultists would be a dream come true, as they are no longer alive and have become 'immortal' with the power of their Master. Even KT fell to that mind set; he was willing to die for the corruption of Arthas to occur after all, knowing that he would be brought back as something greater
/facpalm.
willing and being eager to die =/= you will die by using dark magic.
someone can be a necromancer or a death knight for decades and be still alive. Being dead is NOT a requirement to use these powers. Again, during the third war, the lich king allowed the necromancers and death knights of the scourge to keep their lives. as for your comment on KT, he was WILLING to die, but that's not the same as saying "well he's a necromancer, so even if nobody kills him, and even if he doesn't kill himself, he will still die for using these powers"
come on bro' those are 2 completely diferent things.
Post by
Behelich
And saying that their grey hair, pale skin, and freaky eyes are signs they are dieing is also a moot point, as dark power corrupts people
Yeah, if fel makes your eyes glow green, why cannot necromancy make your eyes glow blue? Also, while the player death knights
in the retail game
are dead (with that one cannot argue), what stops us from making a living death knight here in the fRPG?
Post by
229054
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
also bear in mind the wording on alucard's question:
FACT: The game lists them as humanoids. Does it mean that there is a possibility for one to be a Death Knight while still being alive? (I.e., having to eat, breathe, sleep, possessing emotions and an ability to procreate etc.)
the SCOURGE automatically kills any candidate for death knight prior to his or her training, because it eliminates the weakness of being alive (again, eating driking, poop, pee, sleep, ect) and because it makes them easier to controll, as a powerfull necromancer can then exert mind-controll over these new death knights.
but being dead isn't mandatorial to learn the arts of necromancy.
someone completely outside the scourge CAN for example slay a lich, find a dark grimoire in the remains, this grimoire can have the secrets of how to become a death knight, and this someone can use this grimoire to fully become a death knight without having to become undead first.
Arthas was alive during his entire career as a Death knight. He only died when he placed the helm of damnation in his head, and cut out his own heart. I'm asuming that afterwards all the still-living death knights in the scourge were slain and risen to make them more obidient.
non-scourge and non-ebonblade death knights (*gasps* yes they exist) can in fact practice the arts of necromancy and still live. Prime example of this are the dreadlords who are alive and also practice necromacy with impunity.
now, there are some scourge classes that DO require to be dead. No Vrykul woman can become a val'kyr and still be alive, much the same way as you cant be a lich and still be alive. These are 2 classes that DEMAND you become a corpse/ghost.
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