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General Lore Discussions
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Post by
Rankkor
humm, sounds plausible, we still don't know "when" the cataclysm happens, we know its not Imidietly after the fall of arthas, since a lot of books cover events in between that.
Stormrage takes place after WOTLK but before CATA, and the new trilogy "The shattering" is also set before the cataclysm, so we can assume that perhaps more than just 1 year passes between the lauch of WOTLK and the launch of cataclysm.
in those years, both the alliance and the horde could see a massive defection of soldiers and civilians (mostly soldiers on the horde :P there are few non-combatants on the orc side) to the cult's side.
brain-washing is a powerfull tool, and on the long period of time that will elapse, the cult strength can and will grow exponentially till the point where is no longer a cult ,but a full army in cataclysm.
I do hope they include ALL races on the twillight hammer, because I was disapointed that while "in lore" the cult of the damned was made of all races, in-game (and outside of icecrown citadel and the new 5mans) the cult was made of 60% humans, 20% orcs, 20% made of a mix of gnome/troll/dwarf/blood elf.
hardly any night-elven/draenei/tauren/forsaken members, not to mention next to zero members of non-playable mortal races like tuskkars, goblins, and that kind of thing.
the twillight hammer should be made of pretty much every race that has a brain and can think like a sentient aware being. it should be made (in equal numbers) of
humans
dwarves
gnomes
nightelves
draeneis
worgens
orcs
taurens
trolls
forsakens
bloodelves
goblins
naga
ogres
tuskkars
taunka
furbolgs
kobolds
gnolls
trogs
and whatever else blizz may cook up, as that's what I love so much about them, that NO RACE WHATSOEVER is free of their influence, and many times, you see a specific Twillight mob, and that mob can be of any race imaginable (So that a twillight elementalist wound't necesarily be an orc or tauren or dwarf, it can also be human, gnome, or whatever other race too)
I have high aspirations for my favorite group of nutjobs, and I hope blizz doesn't disapoints me, since they didn't disapointed with the scarlet crusade/onslaught on WOTLK.
Post by
Monday
So I was thinking on Goblin Shamans and Priests today.
The Goblins were slaves to the Trolls right? Well even in America nowadays (Capitalism center outside of China) we have religious leaders. Now why can't this extend to the Goblins? Perhaps there are Goblins that took upon themselves the Voodoo powers of the Trolls, and held themselves above the others.
And for the Shamans, perhaps they are some of those same Voodoo priests that saw the ways of the Orcs and Trolls (maybe not Trolls, as there will probably be racial tension there, kinda like Zul'Aman) and the Tauren to be better than their current way.
Anyways, some random thoughts.
Post by
Orranis
So I was thinking on Goblin Shamans and Priests today.
The Goblins were slaves to the Trolls right? Well even in America nowadays (Capitalism center outside of China) we have religious leaders. Now why can't this extend to the Goblins? Perhaps there are Goblins that took upon themselves the Voodoo powers of the Trolls, and held themselves above the others.What I've been saying all around, but I likened it to how the primitive West-African cultures were made slaves and brought to the Americas, where they adopted Christianity. Now, even with their social and technological advancement, most have remained Christian. In fact, I don't know a single person of color who has gone back to Loa worship,
and very few who abandoned Christianity, and even those, many generations later.
And for the Shamans, perhaps they are some of those same Voodoo priests that saw the ways of the Orcs and Trolls (maybe not Trolls, as there will probably be racial tension there, kinda like Zul'Aman) and the Tauren to be better than their current way.
Anyways, some random thoughts.
Same thing. Personally, Troll Shamans are witchdoctors in my view.
Post by
denjerre
What I don't understand are Orcish and Dwarven Mages. They could ve influenced by their allies, but I just don't see them having any affinity for the arcane.
Post by
Adamsm
Part 4: Hold any form, take any shape.
Post by
Morec0
A look at what Arthas Might have been.
Post by
HiVolt
A look at what Arthas Might have been.
I really like this... makes you think about how things could have been.
Post by
Monday
What I don't understand are Orcish and Dwarven Mages. They could ve influenced by their allies, but I just don't see them having any affinity for the arcane.
Dwarves already have some mages iirc. Not to mention they are heavily influenced by Frost and Fire (two parts of a mages speel repertoire). Not to mention dwarves are naturally bright (not on the level of Gnomes and Goblins, but they are an ingenious race), so it wouldn't be too big of a step to see them using the Arcane.
Post by
HiVolt
What I don't understand are Orcish and Dwarven Mages. They could ve influenced by their allies, but I just don't see them having any affinity for the arcane.
Dwarves already have some mages iirc. Not to mention they are heavily influenced by Frost and Fire (two parts of a mages speel repertoire). Not to mention dwarves are naturally bright (not on the level of Gnomes and Goblins, but they are an ingenious race), so it wouldn't be too big of a step to see them using the Arcane.
And Orc mages have been around for awhile, particularly among the Dark and Fel hordes. That Orcs have been able to be Warlocks and not Mages for so long has actually surprised me.
Post by
denjerre
Well the Orcish Warlock are corrupted Shamans, IIRC.
And they've always seemed more of a Warrior race to me, I doubt they like spellcasters.
Post by
Orranis
A look at what Arthas Might have been.
I really like this... makes you think about how things could have been.
I think it's the beard that does it XP.
Post by
HiVolt
Well the Orcish Warlock are corrupted Shamans, IIRC.
And they've always seemed more of a Warrior race to me, I doubt they like spellcasters.
The original Warlocks, yes. But not the newest generation of Warlocks, which is technically what the players are playing.
And they are a warrior race. It's just that spellcasting has become a more normal thing since the first Warlocks and Death Knights.
Post by
Patty
Well the Orcish Warlock are corrupted Shamans, IIRC.
And they've always seemed more of a Warrior race to me, I doubt they like spellcasters.
The original Warlocks, yes. But not the newest generation of Warlocks, which is technically what the players are playing.
And they are a warrior race. It's just that spellcasting has become a more normal thing since the first Warlocks and Death Knights.
Plus, Lorewise Shamans
were
casters, as far as I am aware.
Post by
denjerre
Well the Orcish Warlock are corrupted Shamans, IIRC.
And they've always seemed more of a Warrior race to me, I doubt they like spellcasters.
The original Warlocks, yes. But not the newest generation of Warlocks, which is technically what the players are playing.
And they are a warrior race. It's just that spellcasting has become a more normal thing since the first Warlocks and Death Knights.
Plus, Lorewise Shamans
were
casters, as far as I am aware.
Still, they're spirital/elemental casters, Warlocks and Mages are purely magic.
Post by
Orranis
Well the Orcish Warlock are corrupted Shamans, IIRC.
And they've always seemed more of a Warrior race to me, I doubt they like spellcasters.
The original Warlocks, yes. But not the newest generation of Warlocks, which is technically what the players are playing.
And they are a warrior race. It's just that spellcasting has become a more normal thing since the first Warlocks and Death Knights.
Plus, Lorewise Shamans
were
casters, as far as I am aware.
Still, they're spirital/elemental casters, Warlocks and Mages are purely magic.
If you're going to be nitpicky, it's purely arcane magic magic casters. Divine magic is still magic. (Illidan himself confirms this.)
Post by
Rankkor
look, anyone can be a mage, ANYONE, you don't even have to be smart to be a mage (ogres are dumber than rocks and even they have mages)
all you really need is the willingness to be a mage, if some orcs are willing to go against tradition and be warlocks, then it's not a surprise that they can be mages too.
as for the goblin shamans, think of it this way: Elements never judge individuals by race, but by actions, nobody can "choose" to be a shaman, YOU are chosen by the elements to comune with them.
now, most goblins who hear the calling of the elements ignore it because they live in a life of profit, technology and away from nature, (kezan looks like a huge modern metropolis, with asphalt highways, football fields, skyscrapers and factories galore).
now, at first your goblin is an executive of a corporation, with an expensive 9000g tuxedo, sunglasses, and luxurious Sports car, living the life of a sucesfull individual, so in such a materialistic life, its not rare that if the elements call to you, you will either ignore or not hear at all the calling.
no goblin would.
now imagine the start of cataclysm, just like that your life has been shattered for good, you are a refugee on a lost island, besieged by a hostile enemy, all your life you've been a civilian, with no combat (or little combat) experience whatsoever, all your high position in life is gone, your priceless wealth gone, your precious money gone. you lost it all.
in such a dire situation, I think someone would be more willing or eager to actually listen and respond to the call of the elements, as such if during your whole life the elements have called you, but you never listened due to your materialistic life, now that you've lost it all, you can finnaly hear, and they offer what you lack at the moment.
protection, confort, power, security, I doubt any sane goblin (or any other race for that matter) would ignore such a calling.
is true that goblins never care about nature, but that's only a stereotype, there are allways exeptions within any group, those who awaken to the call of the elements could see a turn arround the greedy nature of the goblin ways.
it woudn't surprise me if during the first levels you can't use your skills (I doubt there are shaman trainers on kezan) after all, your ratials you EARN THEM durign your quests, so I think at first youre just a common civilian.
Post by
Monday
look, anyone can be a mage, ANYONE, you don't even have to be smart to be a mage (ogres are dumber than rocks and even they have mages)
I just read Tides of Darkness where Gul'dan makes the Ogre warlocks, and it says they appear much more intelligent than their brutish comrades.
it woudn't surprise me if during the first levels you can't use your skills (I doubt there are shaman trainers on kezan) after all, your ratials you EARN THEM durign your quests, so I think at first youre just a common civilian.
That's pretty awesome, I have to say.
Post by
Patty
look, anyone can be a mage, ANYONE, you don't even have to be smart to be a mage (ogres are dumber than rocks and even they have mages)
I just read Tides of Darkness where Gul'dan makes the Ogre warlocks, and it says they appear much more intelligent than their brutish comrades.
Well, how intelligent is the average grunt of an ogre; in all honesty?
Post by
Adamsm
look, anyone can be a mage, ANYONE, you don't even have to be smart to be a mage (ogres are dumber than rocks and even they have mages)
I just read Tides of Darkness where Gul'dan makes the Ogre warlocks, and it says they appear much more intelligent than their brutish comrades.
Well, how intelligent is the average grunt of an ogre; in all honesty?
The one headed ones, not that intelligent(there are of course, exceptions), but the twin head's are scary smart.
Post by
Patty
Well, how intelligent is the average grunt of an ogre; in all honesty?
The one headed ones, not that intelligent(there are of course, exceptions), but the twin head's are scary smart.
Yeah, average grunt refers to the one-headed 'norm' ie. all but braindead.
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