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10.2.5
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Why is king Varian Wrynn racist?
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Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
That's one line. They didn't get to execute the other team's masters when they won, did they?
And for Brann... Varian not going didn't make it so that Garrosh didn't go. It had nothing to do with it. Garrosh didn't go because Thrall said so. How does Varian saying "Screw you Brann, I'm not sending you jack for reinforcements..." help Brann at all?
Post by
Adamsm
Rehgar: Pray it doesn't. If he freezes like that at Dire Maul, we're all as good as dead.
I guess if Rehgar's team is gone, the winning team can excute him.Except none of the other losing teams did that... that's just a case of misreading. If Earthfury had been in any danger, he would never have continued as a gladiator.
As for Brann, I meant that Garrosh might order his death if the Horde finds him, or stabs the Alliance in the back. Luckly Varian refused to go with him.And if he did, he would have gotten the crap kicked out of him by both Saurfang and Thrall for an idiotic move. After all, the Horde has no problem working with Brann during the actual Ulduar raid.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
You're assuming things. There's never any indication made that they killed the gladiator masters. They didn't kill Sparkeye, for one. My next point would be that it'd be next to impossible to get anywhere in the business, but I don't have to make that point.
I have small proof that they don't kill Gladiator masters, and you don't have proof that they do. Rehgar very well might have been talking about loan sharks coming to collect debts, or people he gambled against.
And what's the point anyway? Were you using that argument to say Varian showed mercy on the Horde there?Rehgar is Thrall's advisor, if it were not for Varian, he would be dead.Of course, if Varian lost, Varian would be dead, so I don't think he was doing it for Rehgar.
As for Brann, the Explorer's League is affiliated with the Alliance, and they got along just fine. Alliance troops being there would have no effect on Garrosh's view on Brann.
Post by
451455
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Post by
325248
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Adamsm
yeah thats funny asking what Varian did for the horde considering the fact that the Horde
kept him prisoner in their arena and what not
And the Alliance kept Thrall prisoner in theirs. Don't forget, RotLK made a reference to that, saying Arthas came to watch "Blackmoore's Pet Orc" fight.
Post by
Skreeran
Ragardless of what he meant, what does that have to do with Varian ever treating an orc as if they were a sentient being. Or giving them mercy as you said.
And as for the definition of mercy, let's go by good ol' Dictionary.com:
mer⋅cy
/ˈmɜrsi/
–noun, plural -cies for 4, 5.
1. compassionate or kindly forbearance shown toward an offender, an enemy, or other person
in one's power
; compassion, pity, or benevolence:
Have mercy on the poor sinner.
And lastly, I don't doubt Garrosh might attack Brann. Whether Alliance troops were there or not doesn't make a difference. Varian withdrawing troops only hurt Brann's efforts.
Varian: May this... death god... take you all.
Rhonin: The old god is laughing at us... Toying with us.
Jaina: Who will be our hope?
Rhonin: Who will stand and face... Yogg-saron?
Edit: yeah thats funny asking what Varian did for the horde considering the fact that the Horde kept him prisoner in their arena and what notDarkton said he showed mercy to the Horde, so I merely asked for evidence. And like Adamsm said, Thrall was a slave too, and for much, much longer than Varian, and under worse conditions.
And I'm off for now, gotta shower and get back to reading BtDP. It's much harder to read than Golden's work. Rosenburg's is rather blocky and tough to chew through, especially with it's sharply shifting perspectives. Golden's flows much better, and I can frequently power through her books in a day or so.
Post by
325248
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Post by
Rankkor
Racist means you prejudge someone, and Varian risks his life every time he shows the Horde some mercy, usually resulting it risking his life, someone elses, or both
but whenever this has happened, it wasn't the horde's fault, first time it was his own people,. and the second time it was the twillight hammer, and don't go all "he didn't know" because he DID know.
many plp told him (including a few of his advisors) and he refused to listen.
also I wanna repeat a part of that quote of yours
Racist means you prejudge someone
and that's exactly what varian is doing when he says that
all orcs are the same as garona
he doesn't even know every single orc in the face of azeroth and he knows there are many honorable orcs but he still says none can be trusted, all based on the actions of 1 orc.
Pre-judge=make a hasty judgement without having all the facts clear
yeah thats funny asking what Varian did for the horde considering the fact that the Horde kept him prisoner in their arena and what not
the horde
didn't kept varian prisoner, if u do your research, the crimson ring was an underground illegal arena tournament, hosted by all the races of azeroth (wich includes humans).
every varian suporter loves to wield the excuse that varian "doesn't know" when something bad happens to him, but the same excuse can't be used for us?
the horde didn't know Lo'gosh was varian, and furthermore, they didn't know about the illegal crimson ring for that matter
the horde as a goverment didn't knew who he was, for all they know he could had been a theramoore deserter, if that's the case, the options would had been either turn him in (wich would had resulted in the prisoner's execution) or put him to work as a slave.
the alliance did the same for so many orcs in the internament camps after all
Post by
Skreeran
And the Alliance kept Thrall prisoner in theirs. Don't forget, RotLK made a reference to that, saying Arthas came to watch "Blackmoore's Pet Orc" fight.
you cant take that because that was a long time ago and that wasnt the Alliance that it is nowLol? Who says?
And besides, I've said again and again, the Crimson Ring does not have the support of the Horde.
Post by
Adamsm
And the Alliance kept Thrall prisoner in theirs. Don't forget, RotLK made a reference to that, saying Arthas came to watch "Blackmoore's Pet Orc" fight.
you cant take that because that was a long time ago and that wasnt the Alliance that it is now
So.... the difference is because Blackmoore, in charge of the camps, had a right to Thrall, while the Arena's in Kalimdor, being of an illegal and underground nature, had no right to Varian/Le'gosh? I'm sorry, that makes no sense. Both were held against their will, Thrall was regularly beaten and almost killed several times, well Varian walked through his times in the arenas without a scratch.
Yeah, he really suffered, espically when Earthfury let him and Broll escape..... where Thrall was forced to actually escape, with the help of his adoptive sister, who ended up being for that with her life.
Post by
325248
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
And besides, I've said again and again, the Crimson Ring does not have the support of the Horde.
doesnt matter. both horde and alliance havent been innocents in the pastNo kidding. But Varian wants me and my family dead or chained up in a prison camp(I'm doing that "seeing things from my character's perspective" thing again, sorry). Why? Because Garona killed his dad and Doomhammer killed Lothar. That is racism, even if it's semi-justified racism.
Thrall, on the other hand, lost Doomhammer, his mentor, to the humans, he lost Taretha, and he was kept in a small cell for his entire childhood, regularly beaten and mocked. He's gone through just as much suffering as Varian, and yet he sees the good in humans. He's a far, far,
far
better and wiser leader.
Edit: Also... Going to shower fo' reelz now.
Post by
325248
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Rankkor
Varian's life would be better in every way if orcs never came in.
actually varian would be dead if it wasn't for the orcs, wheter you want to admit it or not, he was kidnapped by a joint effort of the defias+naga+black dragons.
he was stranded on the beach, wiht amnesia, unarmed, lost, hungry, and tired.
if reghar hand't found him, then the ones who kidnapped him would have, and they would had killed him.
it was thanks to reghar's training that improved varian's already formidable skill in combat, but with amnesia, and unarmed, lost, and hungry on a desolated beach, he woudn't had stand a chance against his true kidnappers (wich weren't affiliated with the horde in any way)
now try to counter that.
also, while varian hasn't met any honorable orc before, he has met humans who have met honorable orcs before, and he refuses to listen to them.
all the varian defenders allways ignore the point both skeeran and myself have said many times before.
if varian trusted Tirion when he vouched for the Death Knight's honor, to the point of allowing them to rejoin the alliance, then why-o-why he plays dumb when Tirion says the orcs have honor?
he can trust him on one thing, but not on another?
Post by
451455
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Post by
taurenmoo812
Doomhammer is one of the biggest villians I can think of, he deserved it, being beaten to death is to good for him, he even attacked a Alliance settlement in his last hours. Its not just "Garona did this..." or "Dommhammer did this..." read what I said on page one, there is more to it.
Doomhammer was something the humans of the alliance would have feared, but he was a hero to the orcs who set them on the path to truely freeing themselves from all that bound them to the legion, killing the shadow council to start with.
If Varian Prejudged them, then he would not even consider a peace summit. He always sees what they do, and acts on that.
Varian only attended a peace summit because of the wish of his brilliant son. If his son hadn't convinced him to attend, Varian would simply have gone ahead and found any other reason to demonize the horde, regardless wherever it might be.
Thrall had Taretha, Jaina, Sergent, Tirion, and so much more humans to show him the light.
"yar, but Thrall did not hold a grudge on humans, and Varian did on orcs"
The very thought of this is laughable, Thrall
HAS
no grudge to hold, if it wernt for Blackmoore, he would be wolf food. If it wernt for Taretha, he would have never escaped. If it werent for Jaina, Grom would never be redeemed. Who knows what kind of impact Tirion risking everthing for the life of one orc made.
You really seem short sighted here. Thrall had no reason to hold a grudge against humans? Considering his capture was a human who beat him like an animal since he was a baby, Thrall also saw his people held by humans in camps as prisoners, and then, his only human friend was killed by his capture. It doesn't matter that Blackmoore wasn't part of the alliance, he was still a human, and if Thrall wasn't the brilliant and wise leader he was, he would have seen all humans the same.
Varian's life would be better in every way if orcs never came in.
And considering you have zero evidense to back that up? Varians misrable life was messed up when his wife was killed by another human. If the orcs had never come to Azeroth, what makes you think other events couldn't have screwed up his life... think about it! without the orcs, the rest of Azeroth would now be consumed by the Silithid, or the burning legion, or Deathwing whos set to raise out of the ground. You think mega chin could just block all this off with that trunk under his mouth?
Varian definetly suffered more, he has not had a year of peace since before the orcs, and he is still a good leader.
Varian - Lost his father to old horde, lost his wife to humans, spent a few months as a gladiator
Thrall - lost Both his parents to old horde, lost his only human friend to another human,
was made a slave since he was a child to adulthood.
Now tell me again whos suffered more?
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