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Common DPS Issues - Seals, Specs, Gear, Rotation etc
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Post by
Squishalot
Introduction
Ok, this is the first thread of what I hope will eventually become a fairly comprehensive roadmap of answers to "what is wrong my paladin?" type questions.
The rough format will be:
Title: <issue type>
Summary dot-point list of solutions, with links to other minor threads as to the justification for each point. This will save cluttering up the Helpful Threads thread with a million "SoV > SoR for bosses" "Divinity not appropriate for raiding" "Agility > Dodge" threads. People can read the main thread for what they need to do, and if they want to know why, they can follow the link to the theorycrafting.
Links should be Wowhead threads. If you can't explain what the theorycrafters at EJ and Maintankadin have done, then you don't know it well enough. Remember to give them credit if you're quoting their math.
I'll remove this introduction if this actually works, and hopefully, it can supplement blademeld's FAQ.
Common DPS Solutions (Ret)
Seals
Use SoV for targets that take more than 15 seconds to kill. <need theory>
Use SoR for targets that take less than 15 seconds to kill.<need theory>
Use SoC for multiple targets.<need theory, plus proof that on 2 targets, SoC > SoV>
Use SoC instead of SoR until you get (x/5) SotP. <need theory>
Buffs
Use Blessing of Might for higher DPS unless you have >3400 Str.
Rotation
HoW > CS > Judgement > DS > Consecration > Exorcism > Holy Wrath.
Stats
Hit > Str > Expertise
Don't over-spec for Hit or other capped stats.
Gear
Use a slower weapon. <need theory>
Get rid of your quest blues and greens. Get epics, then come back and revisit this list if you still have problems.
I'll continue when I've got an example of what I want it to look like.
Post by
Squishalot
Reserved for further comments
Post by
svirve
Buffs
Use Blessing of Might for higher DPS. <need theory>
Been a couple of minutes since you posted so i guess it's safe to post.
Theory:
BoM will increase your AP by 550(687.5 talented).
BoK will increase all your stats by 10%, mainly this will be STR and STA (you wont have much more than 200-250 agi and this is in the rare occasion that you are using a weapon with agi on it).
So the main increase BoK will give you is in STR (sta means nothing for DPS) which translates to AP.
So in order to get more AP from BoK than from BoM you would need:
687,5/2=343,75 - Amount of strength needed from BoK in order to get an equal amount of AP.
343,75*10=3437,5 - Amount of strength require to gained forementioned amount from BoK.
This is with talented BoM, untalented you need 2750 str in order to gain an equal amount from BoK.
Edit:
Guessing i kinda misunderstood the point of this but i'll leave it here.....
Post by
Squishalot
*sniff sniff* separate thread to link!
And I think I got the other thread up about 10 seconds before you did ;p
Edit:
I can link to other posts in this thread, but I was imagining this to be a "Helpful Thread" of sorts, with links to the theorycrafting elsewhere, rather than cramming all the theorycrafting into this thread and making it information overload like all the other guides.
There's a 'need help' thread somewhere down the forum which I responded with with a list of about 12 dot-points saying what he was doing wrong. Something similar here, with links to the theory for each point, is what I'm trying to recreate.
Post by
svirve
And I think I got the other thread up about 10 seconds before you did ;p
Hey i was waiting to make sure you weren't gonna post anything more! ;p
A bit tired but i'm getting the point now ^^
WTB linkz to the cap compendium?
Post by
Squishalot
WTB linkz to the cap compendium?
Sold! ^^
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I can throw together a FCFS thread if there isn't one already.
Post by
Squishalot
I can throw together a FCFS thread if there isn't one already.
Yes please.
Although that's probably harder than it seems - do you know where to get all of EJ's maths on why the priority works?
Edit: I don't know if the maths is in the link in your sig, since I can't access EJ from work =(
Edit 2: I just realised - what happened to the rest of the stuff in your sig? WTB more sig characters?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
No, that's not the specific math. I know I have it bookmarked somewhere in my 10k bookmarks. I'll dig around for it.
And with the link I'm using 150/250 characters...so I've been debating what spiffy quote to use ;)
Post by
Squishalot
No, that's not the specific math. I know I have it bookmarked somewhere in my 10k bookmarks. I'll dig around for it.
And with the link I'm using 150/250 characters...so I've been debating what spiffy quote to use ;)
Awesome, to both :)
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I can't find it; and even if I could, I seem to recall it being from 3.0.
Though, I don't know exactly how much math you
need
. It's just a matter of ranking them in order of dps output. But if it's more you want, I'll let someone else figure out the numbers.
Post by
Squishalot
I can't find it; and even if I could, I seem to recall it being from 3.0.
Though, I don't know exactly how much math you
need
. It's just a matter of ranking them in order of dps output. But if it's more you want, I'll let someone else figure out the numbers.
That's probably all you'd need, I'd guess. If we wanted to get into more detail, we'd need to model what potential future clashes/downtime there'd be based on each choice, and
that's
probably too much. Maybe also include the sample 37 second rotation that svirve listed somewhere?
DPS would probably need to be calculated in terms of AP and SP though. You can make an assumption of 3.6secs for weapon speed or something, or you can build that in as another variable, if you think it'll help / influence the result.
You'd get questions like ArgentSun's question about holding off on Exo in order to use CS, but it's easy enough to answer once you get DPS numbers down on paper.
Post by
Squishalot
Updated with link to Hyperspacerebel's FCFS rotation.
Post by
Silversmith
The FCFS priority list changes with gear you get. With T9-level stats and T9x2 setbonus judgement takes the prime spot, while HoW falls below J and CS in priority.
Look at this:
Judgement of Vengeance: (1 + 0.22 * SP + 0.14 * AP) * (1 + (Count of SoV stacks on target / 10)), or just (1.5 + 0.33 * SP + 0.21 * AP) in the usual situation.
Hammer of Wrath: (1139 to 1257) + 0.15 * SP + 0.15 * AP
Plug in sufficiently large AP/SP numbers, even adjusted for the shorter cooldown, and HoW just doesn't cut it anymore.
Post by
Squishalot
Definitely. But you're forgetting that HoW will have a 50% higher crit rate than Judgement of Vengeance will. That's part of the reason HoW is so high in the priority list in the first place.
Edit: Just to make it clearer, even after crits, Judgement of Vengeance will still scale better, but the speed of scaling will be a lot slower than you're anticipating at the moment, and the fixed value in HoW it needs to overcome is a lot greater.
Post by
178513
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
The FCFS priority list changes with gear you get. With T9-level stats and T9x2 setbonus judgement takes the prime spot, while HoW falls below J and CS in priority.
Look at this:
Judgement of Vengeance: (1 + 0.22 * SP + 0.14 * AP) * (1 + (Count of SoV stacks on target / 10)), or just (1.5 + 0.33 * SP + 0.21 * AP) in the usual situation.
Hammer of Wrath: (1139 to 1257) + 0.15 * SP + 0.15 * AP
Plug in sufficiently large AP/SP numbers, even adjusted for the shorter cooldown, and HoW just doesn't cut it anymore.
I realize that, which is why I'm planning on doing this for two gear set: heroic-geared and BiS-geared.
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