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A question of Sues....
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Post by
Adamsm
Alright..... I'm not sure what's going on here but if your looking for a fight Tauren.... wait for dark. Any time I make a sue comment and add in Thrall, it's merely as an example. Seeing as again, Jaina, Varian, Med'an, and a wide variety of other Lore characters were ran through there as well......
This is merely a thread that I enjoy, to help me keep my Martin family realistic, or at least as realistic as possible for a warcraft universe character.
Post by
taurenmoo812
I'm not looking for a fight Adam. I just think the use of the term 'sue' is just so overly used now for the slightest of reasons. In the most extreme cases I could understand it, like Rhonin.. but labeling so many characters as sues just doesn't seem to make sense. It should be more based on personal observation rather then what a poll tells you.
Post by
Adamsm
I'm not looking for a fight Adam. I just think the use of the term 'sue' is just so overly used now for the slightest of reasons. In the most extreme cases I could understand it, like Rhonin.. but labeling so many characters as sues just doesn't seem to make sense. It should be more based on personal observation rather then what a poll tells you.
So, you felt the need to go off on my thread? Interesting. Anyways, look at it this way: say your RP'ing and someone tells you that they were raised by humans, even though they were an orc, that said humans turned them into a gladiator who won his matches and learned great tactic skills and the like. Then he escapes, finds his clan and learns that he is the missing heir to leadership, and not just that, he's also the first Shaman in almost 50 years. He then led his people to freedom, helped to defeat some of the greatest evils in existence and united a wide variety of people.
Now, if Knaak had written Lord of the Clans, I have no doubt thousands would be screaming about what a Sue Thrall was, but, and this is the point here; Golden wrote it, and because she's a far better writer then Knaak, it made sense and didn't reach the Sue level. So, yes, the term Sue is used more and more often now, but seriously, it's just someone opinions and you need to consider that just because you disagree with something they write, don't attack it.
Post by
Gumballs
That's a good point Adamsm. If someone told me that was their characters I would definitely think they were going a little overboard :P
I really like Golden, the Arthas book she wrote is my fave book :D
But I like Knaak too, and he's got so much hate going for him. I read War of the Ancients and I really loved it.
Sorry, just had to say that, I'll stay on topic from now on :D
Post by
Adamsm
But I like Knaak too, and he's got so much hate going for him. I read War of the Ancients and I really loved it.I like his work. The Sunwell Trilogy is one of my favorites, I love Kalec Tyri and Anveena so much. That's why I'm sad that Dragons of Outland has been pushed back to Jan, it was suppose to be out this month /sigh.
Still on topic for this thread is me merely adding in new thoughts and ideas about the Martins heh.
Post by
R1TeR
yay took the test with Rin and got a 8
Post by
Patty
Narissa got a 7.
Mainly for being an elf probably...
Post by
Adamsm
Hmm, I'm almost tempted to do what I did there for Thrall, for the other famous leaders...... but I also don't want to, just so I don't get hate flames trying to blow up my e-mailbox heh.
Post by
Patty
Varian would blow your computer up.
Amnesia, check.
Secret Royal heritage, check.
Amazing fighter who becomes renowned, check.
Slays a dragon I had been facerolling for months beforehand, check.
Magic swords, check.
.....
I won't go on. -.-
Post by
Skreeran
I won't go on. -.-Oh, but I will...
Dead parents, check.
Scar, check.
Spiky Hair, check.
Flashbacks, check.
Massive Hero Chin
, check.
Post by
Adamsm
Hm, quick list there:
Telnar Martin:
Pureblood, from a farming family.
Powerful with defensive spells, can use arcane magic.
Semi-well known, served in Second and Third War.
Only surviving family member is his daughter, who he cherishes.
Doesn't trust the Kirin Tor.
Tahlia Martin
Half-breed, father is from the farmer, mother part of a semi-well well off Elf family.
Is skilled at her magic, but weak when it comes to arcane spells, the stronger ones usually injure her. Has no talent with the stronger defensive spells.
Not well known, but has friends on both Alliance and Horde side, is a pure neutral.
Knows her father is missing, is close to Kalistra and Kaesar Sunstorm, who are her 2nd cousins, but the Morningwood family is wiped out, and she thinks it better off that way.
Trusts certain members of the Kirin Tor, but feels they are too lax on watching them, enjoys bringing up Kel'Thuzad and other's to make her point.
Just more info for me, but comment on it as you wish.
Post by
Eledhwen
Interesting test but I think inserting Warcraft lore characters in like Thrall and Varian invalidates the test. Of course they would be Sues!
I put my 4 characters in. Most were in the non-Sue category (scored 6-8), despite them knowing well known lore characters (My Paladin knew Uther and Arthas, my Blood Elf grew up in Dalaran and knew Kael'thas and Jaina) but since I don't play them with much drama or endow them with special abilities I guess that saves them. My Undead Mage is practically boring. She only got a 1. She doesn't know anyone. Poor thing.
I guess the closest thing to a Sue is my Orc Shaman. He scored 18, which makes him a borderline Sue. He's not Blackrock or Frostwolf but he is a Shadowmoon (one of the last uncorrupted ones who lived with the Mag'har for a time) who turned from being a Warlock in the Shadow Council to a Shaman (the bad to good). He suffers deep regrets over his past and is looking to redeem himself.
He has met Thrall (although briefly) and of course knew Ner'zhul and Guldan. I guess of all of them, he's a Sue but nothing special. In fact, he's quite weak, since he had to start his Shaman training all over since he forgot most of what he learned in childhood.
As for the original post, the story sounds a lot like a combination of my Paladin and Warlock stories. I don't have a problem with it. . I tend to think of a "Mary Sue" as a character that has supernatural overpowerful abilities or some bizarre storyline (Half demon, a hidden Naaru, etc)..not someone who knew Arthas or fought in Hyjal. It would seem logical that you would somehow insert your character into recent lore or else they'd be downright boring. Someone had to fight at Hyjal or be at Stratholme so why not your character? Makes sense to me.
BTW, if you take the test more than once make sure you refresh the page, not just the test. Seems the score isn't consistent if you just reset it. It's rather bizarre like that.
Post by
Patty
There's a difference between seeing Lore characters and knowing them.
"Knowing them" Implies either friendship or a relation to the character, really.
Anyway, the test has a disclaimer anyway, I use it as a decent guideline for my characters - then tweak it myself.
Post by
Adamsm
He's not Blackrock or Frostwolf but he is a Shadowmoon (one of the last uncorrupted ones who lived with the Mag'har for a time) who turned from being a Warlock in the Shadow Council to a Shaman (the bad to good). He suffers deep regrets over his past and is looking to redeem himself.
He has met Thrall (although briefly) and of course knew Ner'zhul and Guldan. I guess of all of them, he's a Sue but nothing special. In fact, he's quite weak, since he had to start his Shaman training all over since he forgot most of what he learned in childhood.How old do you consider him Eledhwen? Just because he would be pushing Drek'thar age at the lastest, Garrosh's at the youngest. But beyond that, interesting ideas, well written.
And yeah, the test is a good basis, and it was just in fun that we ran the Leaders through.
Post by
Eledhwen
How old do you consider him Eledhwen? Just because he would be pushing Drek'thar age at the lastest, Garrosh's at the youngest. But beyond that, interesting ideas, well written.
Well, my Shaman is indeed about the same age as Drek'thar. I would say that he is in his late 70s. He's definitely old.
He was born Lug'han, of the Shadowmoon clan. The child of Shaman parents, he was destined to become one as well and had started his training when Ner'zhul told the Orcish clans that the ancestors had told him that the Draenei were their enemies and they needed to make war upon them. When the Orc Shamans found that they could no longer communicate with the elements or the spirits after they started warring with and killing the Draenei, he became a Warlock and eventually joined the Shadow Council as a "Junior member". His parents where higher ups in the Shadow Council and that's what probably helped him get in, as they were well regarded and trusted by Gul'dan.
Drek's saving grace was that he was a Frostwolf, so he turned back to the path of good in a much easier manner. Unfortunately Lug'han, was a Shadowmoon and right in the thick of the evilness and corruption with the likes of Gul'dan, Ner'zhul, etc. However he was still young and rather inexperienced when the Orcs went through the portal to invade Azeroth in the First War. He stayed behind on Draenor with Ner'zhul. His parents were among those killed when Doomhammer killed Blackhand and then eliminated the Shadow Council. Fortunately they weren't resurrected as Death Knights.
Lug'han stayed behind in Shadowmoon village when Ner'zhul went and opened up multiple portals at the Black Temple. He had assumed that once the portals were opened he would gather up remained of this clan and follow Ner'zhul through the portals but instead the world of Draenor shattered. He barely survived and decided not to stay in his ruined village as most of his of his clan were becoming Fel Orcs and serving Magtheridon.
By now Lug'han was growing rather disgusted with the state of affairs and decided to leave the Shadowmoon Valley and travel to Nagrand. He had fond memories of his boyhood attending the Kosh'harg celebration, when the Orcs would gather together peacefully at Oshu'gun, the "Mountain of Spirits", in Nagrand. It was to there that he journeyed and entered the mountain, where he had a vision directing him to Garadar. He went to that town and met and lived among the Mag'har for many years, helping them heal from their sickness and fighting off enemies such as Ogres with his Warlock powers. He was never actually accepted into the tribe since he was corrupt and utilized the dark powers but his help was gladly accepted. Living among the Mag'har he learned to reconnect with his Shaman past and control the bloodlust which plagued him. Meditation helped calm him and he learned to control his temper and rage. As time went on he found himself growing calmer and more thoughtful and less consumed by the bloodlust. He rarely used his Warlock powers, except for battle. He marveled that his bright green skin was growing paler and his once blood red eyes were now turning blue, as they had been when he was a child. He assumed this was happening all due to his growing older and living amongst the uncorrupted Mag'har.
Every year Lug'han went to Oshu'gun to meditate. Most times nothing happened. But one day he had a vision that told him to seek out his people and reclaim his Shamanistic heritage. It was then that he renamed himself Oshu'gun, in honor of the place that he felt changed his life and had such significance to him. He went back to Shadowmoon Village where he was surprised to find a strange group of Orcs there, the Kor'kron guards. They told him the portal was reopened and that was how they were able to get to his former home. He was told about how the Orcs no longer had the demonic blood curse, which explained the changes in him over the past few years. He learned about the new homeland and warchief on the world of Azeroth. He was told that Thrall was interested in any and all Orcs that were connected to his ancestral world and would no doubt welcome him to Orgrimmar. He then realized that this was his chance to begin a new life, redeem himself and reclaim his Shamanism.
Oshu'gun journeyed with some Kor'kron to Thrallmar and then went through the portal into the Blasted Lands, made his way to Stonard and then to Grom'gol, where he was able to take the zeppelin over to Orgrimmar. He told one of the guards there his story and received an audience with Thrall. He caused quite a commotion, with Eitrigg recognizing him as a member of the hated Shadow Council and denouncing him as a criminal and traitor. Eitrigg accused him of blasphemy for taking on the name of a sacred place when he was a Warlock. Oshu'gun told him and Thrall of his desire to redeem himself, serve the new Horde and reclaim his Shamanism.
Thrall then praised him and said he would help him. He also officially gave him the name "Oshu'gun". He arranged for him to go the Valley of Trials to begin training as a Shaman and begin serving the Horde. Oshu'gun left Orgrimmar and walked to the Valley, glad of the chance to start a new life and redeem himself of his corrupt past. He pledged never to use his Warlock powers, only his newly taught skills as a Shaman, even if it meant he would die as a result. At least then he would die with honor. He is old and knows that he might not have many more years to live but he hopes to be happy and fulfilled and make a difference with whatever time he has left.
So that's it, pretty much.
Post by
Adamsm
Yeah, very interesting and well thought out. I like it it man, and does tie it all in heh.
Post by
Eledhwen
Thank you! I enjoy playing him too. I've been wanting to roll an Orc Shaman for some time now. The Shaman class is interesting and I find Orcish lore interesting so I really wanted to "get it all in". Plus the fact that he spent most of his life back on Draenor will make questing in Outlands fun and his perspective now, starting life anew on Azeroth with the Horde is interesting. He's a real newbie ;)
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Post by
Adamsm
A Few additions to the family:
Character: Garos Windwalker
Garos is a half-orc, born a few years before the Cataclysm and grew up in the madness of the new world. He is only 6 feet tall, and not as muscular as a normal orc, but has shoulder length red hair, with green eyes and dark brown skin. Garos is a shaman, and a devout follower of the old ways, which he learned from his clan's shaman growing up. He prefers not to fight if it's possible, but will not back down if he's in the right. Garos mother was a human paladin, a woman named Natilia Rhine, a daughter of Telnar's brother who was born out of wedlock(one night stand), while his father was an orc warrior. The two met 5 years before the Cataclysm.
Names: Kaesar and Kalistra Sunstorm
Race: Both are Blood Elves
Class: Kaesar Priest, Kalistra Mage/Warlock
Gender: Kaesar Male, Kalistra Female
The Siblings:
Kaesar and Kalistra Sunstorm, a pair of Blood Elf twins. The twins are both in their late 500's, and are opposites; Kaesar is a priest of the Light while his sister Kalistra is an arcane mage. The Siblings grew up in Silvermoon, childern of a wealthy family. Kaesar fought in the 2nd War, enjoying the comradire of the Alliance army as they fought back against the "Greenskins". Kalistra prefered to remain at home, assisting with the defenses of the runestones to try to keep the Horde out of the elvish lands.
During the 3rd War, both siblings fought to try to stop the Scourge from destroying their homeland but failed; they fled the war torn nation and sought shelter in the nearby home of a human ally. The hunger hit both sibling's hard, but through his meditation and skills of the Light, Kaesar fought it and nearly won, but was finally driven to consume other forms of magic.
Kalistra though, fell to the hunger faster then her brother; her fall though changed her completely, as she abandoned the power of the mage and took up the mantle of the warlock, prefering to feed on the demonic energy over the fel.
For all their differences, the two siblings are still close, and have become staunch defender's of Silvermoon. They were chosen by the Dark Lady to join with a Death Knight squad for a mission in Northrend, the two Blood Elves realized that there were good members of the Alliance same as there is for the Horde. Since that mission, the Siblings are back in Silvermoon, continuing their job of protecting the city and trying to help find a way to end the Hunger curse once and for all.
The Sunstorms are 2nd cousins of the Morningwood family line, which makes them 3rd cousin to Tahlia Martin, and are connected to Garos through the Martin family line.
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