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Bolvar Fordragon
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Post by
Rankkor
Yeah, saw that. :)
I love Saurfang so much.
He can have my babies. :3
I can't help but be a Saurfang fan boy.
That moment showed Saurfang as not just an orc warrior, but a true champion everyone can rally to, not just the horde but alliance too.
I tell you now, if they decide to kill Saurfang in icecrown, the horde truely will have lost half of its soul.
has anyone ever been to valgarde keep? alliance base in howling fjord, if u stick arround there, the soldiers will say some rather intresting phrases regarding saurfang :P
Valgarde Defender: Reminds me of the time I was stationed at Cenarion Hold during the second war of the shifting sands... Remember that orc? Saurfang? Damndest thing I ever did see.
Valgarde Defender: I'm no orc lover but yea, wish he were here right now. He'd dismantle these things
let's face it, saurfang is saurfang, a breating living legend, a folk hero like none has ever existend and none shall ever exist, second only to thrall on my acount, to me it was a true honor to fight at his side on this quest
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=11705
truly an honor, fighting side by side by this guy.
I gotta say, wiht my alliance alt I did felt inspired too, at this quest:
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=12473
while I'm horde to the end of my days, this quest honest to god made me love bolvar quite a lot, and respect the soldiers of the 7th legion of the alliance (to the point I rarey do Island of conquest, out of respect of them)
anyhow, Long Live Saurfang, a legend like none other shall exist.
Post by
taurenmoo812
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=12473
while I'm horde to the end of my days, this quest honest to god made me love bolvar quite a lot, and respect the soldiers of the 7th legion of the alliance (to the point I rarey do Island of conquest, out of respect of them)
anyhow, Long Live Saurfang, a legend like none other shall exist.
I agree. In terms of it Bolvar was, and still is, a great example of what the alliance should be like. He doesn't have the standing Saurfang does, but in that moment in icecrown he showed he wasn't just a babysitter to the prince, but a proper commander.
But, as you say, in terms of it Saurfang is the true hero here, as even alliance soldiers regard him with great respect, that if even a human can regard an orc in that way, it shows why Saurfang is more important then any other horde hero (save Thrall).
And this is why, if blizzard were to kill him in icecrown, him not just being the hordes greatest warrior but also the last of his family name, then the horde would lose more then just a commander, they'd lose a large part of its soul.
They lost a bit of that at the wrathgate, with seeing his son die to the lich king, so on equal footing.
Post by
Adamsm
But, as you say, in terms of it Saurfang is the true hero here, as even alliance soldiers regard him with great respect, that if even a human can regard an orc in that way, it shows why Saurfang is more important then any other horde hero (save Thrall).Hate to break up the love here.... but Maurdin says pretty much the same thing Alliance side, just for a quick FYI.
Post by
Rankkor
But, as you say, in terms of it Saurfang is the true hero here, as even alliance soldiers regard him with great respect, that if even a human can regard an orc in that way, it shows why Saurfang is more important then any other horde hero (save Thrall).Hate to break up the love here.... but Maurdin says pretty much the same thing Alliance side, just for a quick FYI.
well, that's no surprise, the bronzebeard brothers are a noble brood from my point of view, I just don't see muradin as a warmonger dwarf, I bet he would fight fiercly if he or his people get atacked true but I see him as someone who is willing to put aside the racial diferences to work togheter for a common threat (something that brann has already done in halls of stone and ulduar)
all in all, there are 2 neutral figures here (darion and tirion) 1 friendly horde representative (Saurfang) 1 friendly alliance representative (Muradin) and 1 warmonger bufoon (Varian the Aryan)
since there is a gunship battle in this raid, it makes me wonder, who starts it?
Tirion: absolutely not, if any he's perhaps the person who wants more peace than anyone else on this lovely bunch.
Darion:Humm he only cares about revenge, but provoking a fight of horde vs alliance wound't work well for him he needs them togheter to achieve his goal, and we've seen he cares not for races, as the ebon knights are made of every sentient race in azeroth.
Saurfang: Well if he wants to rescue bolvar and turn him to the alliance to mend the situation, then he's definitly not the one who will spark the conflict.
Muradin: well the bronzebeard brothers have worked with the horde in the past (at least 2 of them have) and since muradin expresses a desire to rescue saurfang junior and turn him to the horde to mend the situation, then he's definitly not the one to spark the conflict.
wich leaves us with Varian, who of course we all know he's gonna go garithos-mode for this one prolly yapping something like "these greenskins don't belong here, send them out" or some crap like that I dunno.
anyhow, getting back on topic, I'm glad that the rumor was confirmed, both bolvar and saurfang junior are still here, and will play a large role on the events to come.
and last but not least, Kudos for Bolvar for resisting the lich kign so long :S damn that's what I call strenght............ for a human of course.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Skreeran
The first question is Wrathgate:
I am not sure why, but everyone keeps saying how Bolvar went against his own king and teamed up with the Horde... But seeing as how Varian was aware of Wrathgate when you return to him, this makes the more likely version that Varian decided that teaming up was worth a shot.I agree. I don't think he went against Varian. I don't think he was opposed to the idea, either.
The second question is the Horde and Alliance team work:
... I have no idea at all where this is coming from. I remember Bolvar calling the Horde "filith" during the Blightcaller quest chain, and he has never done anything leading us to think this. It seems to me that some players just told themselves something like this after Wrathgate, "St00pied Varian. That old guy, Bolvar or whatever his name was, would be a better leader then him."
And that is where it started.Really it was the Wrathgate that sold his character for me. He really didn't have much personality before then. I mean, I liked the guy. He looked after Anduin, he helped me fight Onxyia when Marshal Windsor exposed her.
But the Wrathgate was what
really
made me like him. And the Wrathgate was the best example of Horde and Alliance kinship I've ever seen. Alliance were standing with Horde and vice versa, and Bolvar seemed especially angered by Dranosh's death.
Ultimately, in his position, having fought alongside the Horde, I think he would understand that the part of the Horde that betrayed them is not the same as the part of the Horde that he fought alongside.
The third and last question is what he would do if he was here now:
.......And thats what I want to discuss.Something between what Jaina is doing and what Varian is doing. Varian wants to punish the Horde. Jaina wants to make peace with the Horde. I think Bolvar, with his first hand experience of Horde honor, would fight to get justice, but at the same time would try and come to a conclusion that is mutually beneficial to the Alliance and Horde.
The main idea looks like people think he could help Varian be more calm, and I am afraid I disagree with that. I think if he survived Wrathgate, both of them would be on the same page.
They were as close as brothers, after all.Well, that's the thing. Varian, by your own admission, has never seen the good side of the Horde, the honorable side. Bolvar, while not seeing much (it was only one battle after all), has at least fought alongside an honorable orc. Thus, while he might agree with Varian on many things, and certainly wouldn't oppose him (Varian is king, after all), I think he would be much more open to the idea of peace or the acceptance of the honor of orcs than Varian currently is.
Think of how Varian treated Saurfang in ICC. I think Bolvar would be of that attitude more frequently than Varian.
Post by
423967
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Dralas
I'm well aware this is a necro on my own thread, but it's a perfectly acceptable necro!
In a recent released clip, it is confirmed that Bolvar is "lavaman" and that he become the new Lich King.
I felt that this was noteworthy of a discussion about it.
(Also, Bolvar has been my favorite Alliance character who I thought was the most noble, and this only pushes the idea futher!)
If you don't know what clip I'm talking about, go to youtube.com and search "Bolvar Lich King," you should be able to find the correct clip somewhere on the first page.
Post by
Adamsm
Or check the general forums here heh.
But yeah, it's a fine Necro Dralas, that's why I necro'ed my two threads last night.
Though, for the man you hear fighting against the Lich King while in the Citadel.... is it just me or is that defeatist attitude at the end of the clip a little out of character for him?
Post by
Skreeran
I'm well aware this is a necro on my own thread, but it's a perfectly acceptable necro!
In a recent released clip, it is confirmed that Bolvar is "lavaman" and that he become the new Lich King.
I felt that this was noteworthy of a discussion about it.
(Also, Bolvar has been my favorite Alliance character who I thought was the most noble, and this only pushes the idea futher!)
If you don't know what clip I'm talking about, go to youtube.com and search "Bolvar Lich King," you should be able to find the correct clip somewhere on the first page.Yup. Nothing new there... We all saw this coming... :P
Post by
taurenmoo812
It also leaves something hanging. See, Varian has been blaming the horde for Bolvars death since the wrath gate, and using that as the driving force for war against the horde. With Bolvar not being dead, it makes that excuse null and void... however, it seems that only tirion would know about this, and has to convince the world Bolvar is dead after all.
Regardless however, that excuse old mega chins been using became null and void once we knew Bolvar was still alive in icecrown citadel.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Monday
It also leaves something hanging. See, Varian has been blaming the horde for Bolvars death since the wrath gate, and using that as the driving force for war against the horde. With Bolvar not being dead, it makes that excuse null and void... however, it seems that only tirion would know about this, and has to convince the world Bolvar is dead after all.
Regardless however, that excuse old mega chins been using became null and void once we knew Bolvar was still alive in icecrown citadel.
Except Bolvar
IS
dead, he's just undead. Which many see as worse than true death and is certainly the Horde's fault. (Not getting into this argument again, look at the other threads on this board if you want the reason for its the Horde's fault at Wrathgate.)
Post by
Skreeran
It also leaves something hanging. See, Varian has been blaming the horde for Bolvars death since the wrath gate, and using that as the driving force for war against the horde. With Bolvar not being dead, it makes that excuse null and void... however, it seems that only tirion would know about this, and has to convince the world Bolvar is dead after all.
Regardless however, that excuse old mega chins been using became null and void once we knew Bolvar was still alive in icecrown citadel.
Except Bolvar
IS
dead, he's just undead. Which many see as worse than true death and is certainly the Horde's fault. (Not getting into this argument again, look at the other threads on this board if you want the reason for its the Horde's fault at Wrathgate.)And even if he's technically alive somehow, there are a lot of others that did die there, Horde and Alliance alike.
Post by
451455
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Patty
Except Bolvar
IS
dead, he's just undead. Which many see as worse than true death and is certainly the Horde's fault. (Not getting into this argument again, look at the other threads on this board if you want the reason for its the Horde's fault at Wrathgate.)
Technically, he isn't? I dunno, maybe the Dragonfire immunised him to the Blight.
Post by
HiVolt
So is Bolvar going to be a furture raid-boss, or is this Blizzard closing off the Scourge for good?
He probably won't be a future raid boss... that would just be weak as hell. If we ever see the Lich King again, it'll be in one of the next installments of Warcraft (not WoW). But, since the Lich King still exists, they probably won't close off the Scourge for good.
Honestly though... I have no idea how they would turn Bolvar into a character that we have to kill. Even though I don't like the whole "New Lich King" concept, it will be interesting to see how this particular one plays out. I don't see Bolvar willingly having the Scourge grow in number, let alone have them go in force against any army. It actually makes it a little more interesting, even if it's a cop-out.
Edit: I could see it turning into something where, after everything that he knew in life is gone, he sees that the world is in chaos and wants to put it to order. He is a paladin at heart after all, and they value the Light and Order above all things. Since the Light is gone from him (I guess anyway), all he has left is that sense of Order. By controlling the Scourge and taking over Azeroth he could help the world achieve Order.
Granted, this would have to be much further down the timeline. Say 50-60 years or more.
Post by
Skreeran
I'm hoping to see the Scourge help out against Deathwing when he comes to break the world over his knee.
Post by
Adamsm
I think he is 'alive', otherwise, why would the Lich King bother torturing him to break his will? He would have just killed him and raised him up like Saurfang the Younger. Probably the Dragonfire which damaged him like that, kept some type of protection on his body that was keeping the King from just stabbing him with Frostmourne and making another Deathbringer.
Honestly though... I have no idea how they would turn Bolvar into a character that we have to kill. Even though I don't like the whole "New Lich King" concept, it will be interesting to see how this particular one plays out. I don't see Bolvar willingly having the Scourge grow in number, let alone have them go in force against any army. It actually makes it a little more interesting, even if it's a cop-out.
Edit: I could see it turning into something where, after everything that he knew in life is gone, he sees that the world is in chaos and wants to put it to order. He is a paladin at heart after all, and they value the Light and Order above all things. Since the Light is gone from him (I guess anyway), all he has left is that sense of Order. By controlling the Scourge and taking over Azeroth he could help the world achieve Order.
Granted, this would have to be much further down the timeline. Say 50-60 years or more.Eh, all depends if they need that setback or not heh.... technically without the full set of armour and Frostmourne, Bolvar won't be corrupted as quickly as Arthas was.. and if you noticed, just as the Throne closed over him, his eyes glowed with an orange light instead of the undeath blue.
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