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Homosexual Rights
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Post by
149406
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Post by
Patty
flawed.
In my opinion, that summarises Christianity. Flame ahead, my opinion won't change.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
To the person who said Jesus was against homosexuals, you obviously ignored my 2(!) posts earlier.
JESUS.
&*!@ING.
ACCEPTS.
EVERYONE.
I never said he was against homosexuals...I said he was against sodomy. Big difference which should be blatantly obvious, and really if you can't see it there's no point discussing anything with you any more.
Just like he accepts you but not your use of rage-induced profanity.
My statement was "where Jesus says it" you've only given me one verse that has Jesus speaking and he is speaking about divorce, not homosexuals.
A) Jesus is God, and God inspired the whole of the Bible.
B) You mentioned not quoting Lev. in the same breath, so obviously you weren't thinking about only what Jesus said directly.
C) There's a phrase in Matthew 19:4-5 that
should
stick out to you.
*Again, the post is completely religious...this is not meant to be philosophical*
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Hey Rebel, what if you are a Buddhist and your religion has never said anything to ever sanction gay rights, acts and so on?
It is the 4th most followed religion with Christianity, Islam, Hinduism in front.
Now we have conflicting reports here and I love arguing with you Rebel, you're level headed and you always back up what you say.
I can't argue (religiously) against Buddhists, because I'm not a Buddhist myself. Some religions don't say anything about homosexuality, some even advocated it. Religious arguments only work if both people arguing hold the same religious principles. So if I were a worshiper of the ancient Greek gods arguing with another believer, I could probably make a pretty convincing religious argument in favor of homosexuality.
Which is why I've been trying to make clear in my post when I'm addressing the Christian arguments and when I'm arguing with philosophy. I'm sorry if my use of "religious" is a little loose. I've just assumed that the majority of religious people who make up the wowhead demographic are Christian; maybe I'm wrong.
Post by
165617
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
However.
I take issue with Paul and the other writers after the Gospel simply because they offer advice to other early Christians and their beliefs.
That's where I'd have to stop you.
Coming form a Catholic:
The entire Bible is the inspired word of God for us, including both the gospels and the epistles. So if we were to have a religious discussion about anything, that's a principle we'd both have to agree on. That's not a point I argue, that's a matter of faith.
I'd have to take a slightly different approach when arguing with a protestant depending on what they're denomination teaches. Based on the guy I was arguing with earlier and his obsession with what Jesus said, I assume he belongs to a denomination that only takes Jesus' words as (pardon the pun) gospel.
Post by
165617
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Post by
kattib
for those that use the bible as reference here you realize that the bible (new testament) was also made under political agenda as well for it wasn't assembled until 300 years after jesus was gone. The seperate books were written at the time of jesus I suppose but many books were left out (dead sea scrolls for example and all those)
PS jesus never ever said he was the messiah
Yeah I am a non christian, and if you want to know my religion too bad you can prolly find it somewhere on the forums if you really want
Post by
165617
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Post by
Hyperspacerebel
Letter to the ____ is just that, a letter to a group.
All the letters were written to specific places, because on their travels the epistle-writers noticed certain problems cropping up in certain places (ie pagan influences and immorality in Corinth). The letters themselves were written to address those problems in general, no just for that city. Church Doctrine was not codified so early on, the epistles being the only exception.
It would be pretty rude of a person to address you in a letter and go, for anyone who reads this letter 2,000 years from now, this is the inspired Word of God and that he truly means this.
The earliest copy of the New Testament that we have is from between AD 117 and 138, and who's to say there weren't earlier copies that just haven't survived. John had just barely kicked the bucket by then lol; the Church was only in its second generation.
The fact is, he was slightly handicapped by this.
What's "this"? You're first sentence? If so, I think I adequately answered that.
Furthermore, he was wrong in places in the Bible, such as the believe that the world would be ending soon-ish.
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, but it's generally understood that Paul was prophesying the destruction of the Temple in ~ AD 66 (I may be wrong about the date).
Does that give me as a non Catholic some pause if we were to analysis it?
Which is exactly why I treat the Pali Tipitaka differently than a Buddhist does. Because all it is to me is a historical text, and all I can do is analyze it for it's philosophical content (or I could convert ;)).
But I digress....per usual :P
Edit:
for those that use the bible as reference here you realize that the bible (new testament) was also made under political agenda as well for it wasn't assembled until 300 years after jesus was gone. The seperate books were written at the time of jesus I suppose but many books were left out (dead sea scrolls for example and all those)
PS jesus never ever said he was the messiaht
How does politics even enter the equation? Christians were a persecuted minority until AD 313, well after the 27 book canon was established.
And no, Jesus said he was God. I think that trumps.
Post by
149406
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
165617
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
/cast religious argument
And HyperspaceRebel does have a point about the sodomy thing. However, I honestly think that as long as the two truly love each other, then
God can accept it.
I won't get into your spiritual life, and just deal with this point. :P
By it I assume you're referring to homosexuality.
No he accepts
them
, as he always does, but
God does not accept sins.
/cancelaura religious argument
Post by
149406
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
O hey Fathios, you failed at your job.
Rebel- your dates are off by 200 years.
Most of the writings took place between 60-100AD...
The 100AD bit is with John as a matter of fact.
Which only helps your case.
I wasn't talking about when they were written, I know when they lived :P
The discussion was more about the canon of the New Testament, which was a bit later.
Homosexuality wasn't an issue, really, in Jesus' time.
Actually it was a
very
prevalent Greek and Roman practice. And socially accepted to boot.
Post by
149406
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Post by
438256
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Post by
kattib
for those that use the bible as reference here you realize that the bible (new testament) was also made under political agenda as well for it wasn't assembled until 300 years after jesus was gone. The seperate books were written at the time of jesus I suppose but many books were left out (dead sea scrolls for example and all those)
PS jesus never ever said he was the messiaht
How does politics even enter the equation? Christians were a persecuted minority until AD 313, well after the 27 book canon was established.
And no, Jesus said he was God. I think that trumps.
They were a minority but the people who led rome at the time saw that christianity was on the rise so decided to make a switch
and where does he say he is god?
and because my cynicism requires it: If I say I am god do I get to have a religion?
Post by
Hyperspacerebel
I'm going to say this off the bat:
If you're going to argue against/for Christianity, please do your research
beforehand
.
Jesus wasn't in Rome.
Yes, he was a subject of the Roman Empire.
But it wasn't an issue, in that case.
Because up until then all the religions supported it. Sadly, I'm a "Zeusian."
and where does he say he is god?
God verses:
John 14:7-10
John 10:30
John 14:11
John 10:37-38
Matthew 27:43
John 17:11
And here's the Messiah verses:
Mark 14:61b-62
Luke 22:66-70
If I say I am god do I get to have a religion?
Get crucified for my sins and I might consider it.
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